My favourite image that I've ever taken is of my children and not ~ a flower. And I did it when they were quite young. and it's quite memorable because I was nearly sick. Hello and welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. Today our guest is Molly Hollman, a multi-award winning flower, plant and garden photographer. Molly is also known for her creative use of macro techniques, homemade overlays and image editing. And she's the author of Creative Flower and Plant Photography. Hi Molly, welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It's lovely to see you. Thank you very much, it's good to be here.~ great, thank you. So let's start What came first? Photography or flowers? I probably would say photography. Uh-huh. It is close. I remember watching Gardener's World probably about the age of eight or nine or 10. It was in the Geoff Hamilton years if anybody ever remembers. But Lovely, Geoff. I did have a camera and I remember, I can still remember the first photo I took of a very blurred dog. I had, I always had like little snappy thing that, and I used to take it on school trips. And I mean, we all did back then, we all, because there's no phones, so we all carried little cameras around. I never Mm-hmm. had like a Polaroid. And then I did so much art that it sort of got put to one side, I guess. I did always have an SLR, had Pentax. And I used that through my 20s and my 30s. And then my children were born and I switched. to doing a lot more photography because I didn't have much time for art so photography sort of took over and then it was kind of teach myself read and read and read and read how to get better at it really I'm a bit of a wouldn't say I'm a perfectionist but I like to know how to do something properly so I you know immersed myself in books and studied you know, just have to get better really. And I was looking at loads of genres. I mean, the flower photography came much later. So I was doing portrait photography and landscape photography and street photography. And then when I started to go out more in nature with my children, I thought, you know what, I really love taking photos of the outdoors. I love taking photos of nature. And because I've always gardened, it got to a point where I was gardening to take photos of things, which I still do. ~ yeah I suppose I made a proper full-on I'm going to try and be a flower and garden photographer about 12 years ago. And that's quite an interesting thing, isn't it? When you decide that kind, you make that kind of decision, right, this is what I'm going to do. Was that really significant for you? I think it was and I basically couldn't find anybody doing I was trying to find sort of advice and how to do it and there were there are a couple of people Sue Bishop being one who had a book out hers was mainly on sort of flowers out in the environment. And I remember being in RHS Wisley going to the library there and finding this But I was still trying to, you know, have I had all these other questions and I couldn't find any other books about flower photography. So I just in the end, I just thought, know, I'm going to write one. And I did all my research and I asked lots of friends and people and so on who did it and put the book together over quite a long time. Still can't quite believe it got written, but I think COVID probably helped. little bit Yeah. because I was a teacher so ~ I finished at three and when I finished at three I didn't have any sort of any extracurricular things because I was at home so then I got the book written in the evenings and I managed it and I still look back and think you know I don't sort of it doesn't embarrass me I don't feel like that or I don't think that's an awkward bit I still I don't tend to obviously I don't reread it but I'm still quite proud of it. Rightly so, rightly so. I it's been very popular. How many prints has it been on? It's done its third print run, so it was first Mmm. published in I think 2022. And it's weird because you don't ever find out about your royalties until... April every year, so I have to wait and see how many it's sold, but it's still doing okay. And I think it's possibly because I do so many~ talks to camera clubs around the world. And I mentioned the book at the end of my talk, just as a kind of if you're interested, you can go Mm-hmm. here and find out more. And I think the sort of sort of steadily keeps the sales ticking over really. So let's talk about the process of creating your book. You decide you want to put a book together. Where did you go from there?~ From very early on, I knew that I wanted 12 chapters because at the end of every chapter, I wanted to look at what was around to photograph in every month of the year. So once I had that, then it made sense to, and then I was trying to think, right, what am going to do? So it starts off with a chapter about equipment and then it goes onto a chapter about ~ composition and light and color and it's all the things that, again, you're getting in every genre of photography. but it's how I use them in this one. But then there are some extras. for example, there's a chapter on shooting through, which is a very specific technique that we use in the genre. And then there's another chapter on still life, for example. it did, once I decided it came together quite quickly. Yeah, and so the writing process was straightforward. You've got the images. Did you have to shoot any images, thought, no, actually I need an image for that chapter or to illustrate that particular point? So many, yes, so many. ~ my it was interesting because the first draft I sent to the publisher they came and said Molly you have to take out at least 200 photos so we can't we can't have more than 350 in the book I think that was the number because I wow, yeah. literally sent them so many but actually I think when you get excited about something you tend to sort of almost do too much and so it was a very useful process actually curating my own images and cutting things out and I do that a lot more. It's like when you first start posting on, if you set up an Instagram page or something, you're like, ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. And I think somebody said to me once, only ever post the very, very best things that you do, photos that you take. because they just need to be a little bit special. it went back to that and I took a lot out. I shot some more and it was such a long writing process. I think it went on for about a year and a half that I had time to really stop and think, okay, what else do I need to talk about in this particular chapter? And there are techniques in there, like for example, scanography, where I talk about putting flowers in a printer and I really don't ever do that. I think I've done it a couple of times, it's not me but it's an interesting thing that I felt should be in the book so that's why I did it. At what point in the process did you find a publisher? Was it from the outset or was the book finished and you thought I better get a publisher or what? So there's a book that you can buy which basically lists every single UK publisher. Mm-hmm. And it tells you, it's like an encyclopedia. It tells you what kind of things they publish. So I went through this book with a highlighter and I highlighted all the ones that were either photography publishers or garden, like garden, just plain garden publishers. Cause I thought there might be a bit of an overlap. And then I made a list of if I could choose my absolute amazing, like best ever publisher, who would I have at the top of the list? So I then rank, did this sort of rank order. I probably. D.K. was at the top probably because they do a lot of that kind of garden encyclopedia Yeah. stuff. Anyway, I made my list and then I had a template email and every two weeks I emailed a new publisher and I got to number 10. And then I had an email from the publisher that I'd emailed at number four and they said, did you not see our email? And I said, no. And I found it in my junk. Isn't it always the way?~ yeah. So I found it and they were interested and they are specifically a how to do it publisher. they're not necessarily photography. There's like how to knit and how Mm. Yeah. to fix an Austin car, you know, literally. many different things so they took me on board and then I learnt sort of the sequence of different things that you have to do when you have a book. But say, was that when you were part way into the book or you'd finished it or? No, hadn't written it. I had submitted a sample chapter, that's what I did. Okay. And I'd probably written about four and then got sort of bits for other ones. And they don't really put a timeframe on it, but you have to deliver the whole thing, I think within a year, at least as a draft. And then you get another payment at that point. Cool, okay. So let's think about your photography now. Your pictures are always, I think, they always seem quite restful and very atmospheric, but what are you looking for when you go into a garden with your camera? I most importantly, I'm looking to convey what I see and what I experience. And the days that I go into a garden with my camera are usually the one day a week that I'm not a teacher. And my aim is to kind of calm, zone into nature, and just to really slow down. So I look for things. perhaps details that might be missed by people. I love to do the close up side of things and the little details. And I love to spot something. I mean, even me personally, think if you're walking around, even then you don't necessarily see things. It's not until you sort of sit down for 10 minutes and then suddenly you become acutely aware of things. And it's a bit like if you sit on your lawn in your garden and then after five minutes or so you might sort of start to notice the ants in the grass, which you wouldn't normally do that. So I think for me it was it's a process of just trying to become one sounds a bit cheesy, but just to be immersed in nature and to then try and convey what I'm seeing with the camera. And I've always tried to be as naturalistic as I do have a sort of secondary style, which is more studio, which is often done in my lightbox in my conservatory, perhaps when it's raining. And they those kind of images are more sort of fine art and I'll go for like impactful same colour across the image and so on but I think more than anything my heart lies outdoors and it's often in the detail and the flowers that I have grown up loving that I like to capture. So if we see a picture of yours, which is a single Thank flower, is that likely to have been in the studio? And if there's one with other flowers in the background, then it's a garden, definitely a garden? No, I don't think you would ever know. because some of my techniques such as using overlays, so quite often I'll shoot a single flower in a garden and there'll be sticks or mud or distracting branches behind it so I might drop a sort of subtle overlay which is usually made of an out of focus photo that I've taken at the same time perhaps with some other colour from the area. I don't think you could, I'd love to know actually, I don't think you could necessarily~ unless they're really sort of totally at the fine art end of the spectrum and they're very vivid, don't know, yellow or something. But even having said that, sometimes you just get the most amazing colours. Once you come down to the level of the flower, if there's other colour going on in the background and you blur it out, then you can get some really, really amazing colours. And a lot of flower photographers, they will often shoot outdoors in nature, but sometimes they'll make~ use of for example a garden gate that's painted blue and then that blurred out becomes the background for a blue or purple flower or something but it's still outside and it's still nothing that that you have done is sort of artificially false in any way. Yeah. How much of your decision process when you're looking at what you want to photograph is dictated by the light or the weather? Oh, a lot. ~ not always I have to say and I think because I come at it from a gardening angle sometimes you see a perfect flower this does happen a lot at the moment actually because it's dahlias season and so many people love dahlias ~ so sometimes you'll just see a perfect flower and you'll think right I'm just going to photograph it and that's an amazing photo and it isn't an amazing photo necessarily because all you've done is photograph a flower and not really considered things like composition and background and light and I think only by considering everything can you then elevate it ~ some of my studio stuff doesn't have much light in the way of light in the background, but it's still how I'm lighting the flower that I'm photographing with sort of directional lighting that makes a subtle difference, I think. I think understanding light and particularly knowing that bright sunlight is the worst for a flower portrait and to always sort of have a diffuser to hand so that you can have a really clean sort of creamy image as a result,~ particularly on your subject. little things like that as you go along really sort of elevate just a flower snapshot into something that can be a little bit more creative. Yeah. What about wind though? Because it only takes a tiny amount of breeze to make a small or a delicate flower bob around like a, you know, a basketball on a court. It's tough, it's tough and I usually avoid it. Mm-hmm. I can't always. So if a garden books me to take photos for their website, for example, which does happen a couple of times a year, I cannot, I have a date that I'm there for and I can't do anything about it. I don't think it's ever actually like rained so fully that I haven't been able to shoot anything. So if it's a shower, that's fine because I can Yeah. duck into the greenhouse or something and then come out and then it's sort of everything sparkles. So that's really nice. But I did do when I was filming, with the School of Photography last year, the day that we were in the garden, which was a garden called Doddington in Kent, it was so windy and I was working at ISO numbers that I would, I am fearful of ramping up the ISO. So I think that was my only solution. Everything was really dark because obviously I was really struggling to get a fast enough shutter speed to sort of freeze the flower. So. in the edit, which was me showing how everybody I edit them, they all look really dark, but then I just lift the exposure. And actually, I think cameras and editing software cope so well with things that we don't necessarily think they will do. And certainly since the beginnings of when I was starting, when I had my first digital camera, things have got so much better. Yeah. And it's just, it's fine now, but it was, yeah, it's still a bit scary when you're looking at something think my word it's so dark but maybe this is a tip for everybody that you know if your image is too dark don't worry because you can lift the exposure in the edit and usually it will be okay you can always denoise it if it is a little bit noisy but it's usually okay Yeah, noise control in camera, not especially noise control, but actually the lack of noise in the base image is so much better. And then in camera, but also software noise control is so much better with the AI understanding of what is noise and what a subject is supposed to look like. It's just incredible. I do have a separate Topaz, ~ which is like a standalone denoise, but Lightroom now has got so much better. I found myself just using that recently. yeah, Yeah. they mean things just get better and better. I'm not too au fait with other varieties of software, but I'm sure they all have something similar. Yeah. yeah, yeah. mean, Lightroom, I tend to use Adobe Camera Raw,~ which comes with Photoshop. And it's incredible what you can do. And when I'm writing a review of a camera, I look and think, yeah, I probably wouldn't use that ISO. And then you click on the AI noise reduction. yes, I would. That's fine. So I think we have to recalibrate every now and again. I mean, if you look back at 1600 film, it's quite a shock actually how... smudgy it was and you know how the colors all went a bit dull and just not what we you know in our mind's eye film was great but actually it wasn't always fantastic. You mentioned your book has putting your book together made you think differently about photography I mean you know whether that's has it given you a different sense of purpose or has it opened your eyes to different types of photography perhaps? Yes, I wouldn't have said hugely Mm-hmm. because I guess I was so interested in different genres and I sort of brought my ideas from those genres into... the way I do things I say it made me slow down and really think I am so i'm so excitable and i'm very impetuous and I will get somewhere and I will get my camera and I'll start going click click click click and~ I I think me telling everybody else not to do that Ha probably kind of like sunk in a little bit Uh-huh. Although I am still a little bit, I mean, when I go to a big garden, I am still a little bit like a kid in a sweet shop. I do tend to sort of haphazardly Yeah. let go everywhere. But nowadays I know because I know what is going to be in flower in the gardens I go to at any time of year because I've learned that I can slow down a little bit and I just think right okay I'm gonna do the hydrangeas because I'll know they'll be really good and I'll go and look for some insects over there and so it kind of helps I think the more you do it so it wasn't so much just the book but more like experience I think writing the book really solidified how much background ~ is important in an image. And I think, again, carries on into just about every genre, to be honest. And I suppose when you're trying to explain to people what to do or how to do a type of photography, then it does make you think, how am I doing it? And how should I do it? And what will make it better? And so, like you say, you teach yourself, perhaps I should do what I'm telling others to do. Yes and I think because I had like an art background sometimes I know what I want Mm. I don't necessarily know how what to do to get that end result so then I'll just look it up how do I do that ~ and sort of read about it either on the internet or in books and then learn that and then obviously I could pass that on to other people in the book. So when you go to a garden, do you have it in your mind's eye or perhaps even a written list of what's in season, what's going to be looking good, you know, or what that particular garden is known for and it will be at its peak? And you head to those things first. do talk about pre-planning being quite important. I don't tend to do it too much, but I do have my route through each garden. have a route Yeah. that I usually take. So I know then, okay, I'm gonna, Lily of the Valley will be out. So I'm gonna go and lie on the floor and take photos of Lily of the Valley. And yeah, think I will probably, rather than writing a list, I'll probably in the car on the way there, I'll probably think about, okay, what am I gonna do? What Yeah. will be there? Because the thing is, you can't be too set because you'll get there and you'll find, they've taken that part of the garden away or whatever. Mm. that's not out anymore. So you have to be a little bit flexible. think looking for colour is something that I do instinctively. Looking for composition is something I've trained myself to do better because I see colour before shape, but I want to see shape. love sort of structural especially with foliage you can get ferns and cacti and I love all of those structural photos so I'm trying to think more about composition and not just be distracted by colour because sometimes you can get a beautiful green image that I mean green is a colour but people think of it as leaves but actually you know it's a real challenge to try and find a leaf that will work and has a really good structure if that makes do you give yourself or set yourself a time limit? Because I've experienced occasions where, say for example at Wisley know, in the spring they have that beautiful bank of crocuses and you sort of lie down there and you're photographing this one and another one and another and after a while, I mean, it is a lovely way to relax and it's, you know, it's still very comfortable lying on the ground, taking lots of photographs, but then you start to think. think I'm now taking the same photos as I was when I first started and I you either need to do something else something else and or walk away. look away. Yes it is the panic though when you're in that situation of the worry that you won't get the shot so you just keep going and you're like might be better all that might be better. Now I do get lost in the moment and I think that's fine so I never have a time that I have to leave by which is why usually I go on my own and I'm very happy in my own company I think I don't know if that's ~ an artistic thing or not really.~ but I could literally be on my own for a long time and be perfectly happy with I will ~ sometimes think, right, I've got to roughly cover these three areas today. So I can't be laying down for like ages. But as you say, sometimes you just get, you know, lost in the moment and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So as long as I've got nowhere to be, I'm happy. say, That's all right then. I mean, Wisley might take me. four or five hours if I was on my own. But Hmm. most of my local, my normal morning on a Friday is I'll get to a garden about nine, sometimes earlier. and then I'll probably go just after midday. So two and a half, three hours maybe. When I'm booked for, if I'm booked for a big garden to do like a website photography, I get there at sunrise and then probably stay till mid-afternoon. So that's a long time. So then you're really covering everything. But then obviously you're working with different light because sunrise is really lovely. I'm not very good at getting up in the morning, but you know, once or twice a year it's fine. is there an image which you are particularly proud of or feels particularly important to you, even if it's not perhaps one of your best known images?~ Yes, ~ and I sometimes talk about it when I give a talk. I think My favourite image that I've ever taken is of my children and not ~ a flower. And I did it when they were quite young. and it's quite memorable because I was nearly sick.~ I'd seen somebody, I don't know how they did it, they must have hung a camera around their head, sorry, their neck and then held their little child's hands and you know how you swing them around in a circle? So they've done that and somehow, so their arms are in the photo sort of outstretched and then you can see their child like grinning and there's this blur but it's all perfectly sharp and I thought that's a really good idea I want to do something like that. So me doing something like that ended up with me sitting on a roundabout in a playground with my back to the middle and my children pushing it around really fast and then I was taking photos of them. So there's one where one's running in the back and one's like hanging on to the roundabout bars and it's, I love it. You It's kind of those once in a lifetime photos because of course you can't recapture it because now they're really old. But also it just, it kind of reminds me of... like the fun that we used to have and how actually even though I wasn't a great photographer at that point it's still a meaningful photo to me and I think it's really important not to get bogged down in the skill of everything because you can take as many photos as you like for your own purposes and if they make you happy that's fine. Yes. And also for you, think that's a lovely bit of collaboration between you and your children. Yes, yes, yes. So imagine all of that comes back if you see the pictures. Yeah, it's good. And it's on my, it's hanging on my stairs. And you know, I've taken this, you can ask me about, I've got, can list loads of flower photos that I'm really happy with and really proud of. But I think ultimately, it's that emotional connection, I think, isn't it? That makes it better. Yeah, yes, yes. As you're talking, there's a picture I've got in my mind, which is very important to me. And yeah, it's quite an old one, but it's always gonna be there in my mind, even if it's not right in front of me all the time. So that's nice. Now, I know you get asked this a lot, but it's because people want to know, what is your go-to lens for flower photography? The one that's on my camera most of the time is my macro lens which is a Sigma Art 105mm. It's wide open aperture is f2.8 and I will use it for small flowers and insects. If the flower goes to about fist size I will switch to a 50mm lens normally~ but for about probably 40% of the time I will switch camera to my Sony bridge camera which is an RX10 III because with that I can I can actually shoot quite small things but it will blur out the background really nicely because it has an equivalent of 600mm lens so I can shoot things that are further away like birds and flowers in maybe flowers in borders that I can't quite get to because I can't stand on the flowers in front so I do use that quite a lot of the time and it obviously has a slightly wider depth of field which is really useful when you're sometimes you struggle with macro because you've got such a small depth of field and you want slightly more of the center of the flower whatever to be in focus and it holds up really well this camera it's a bit old now probably nearly 10 years old but it still lets me do insects and and get the detail that I want so ~ I will use that quite a bit at the time as well What about aperture? What sort of aperture settings do you tend to use with both of those? So if I, so my absolute art, it's a bit of a cliche probably, but I do like the sort of dreamy impressionist flower portrait. So for that, will get, I want as lower aperture as possible so that I can blur out the colours of the flowers in the background, but still have a bit of my subject sharp. If I can't quite manage that with my macro, then I'll switch to my bridge camera and that has a lowest aperture of f4. But if I'm on my macro and I'm doing insects, then I'll ramp it up to say, well, f10 is my go-to ladybird aperture, for example. And I know that I can usually get the, if it's in profile, I can get its nose and tail sharp at that aperture with that lens. So again, it's, I don't know, it's experience, but I am still very scared of not having enough sharp that I want sharp so I will always usually take things at wide open and then I'll just take another one at 5.6 and another one at 8 and another one and just keep ramping it up until I know that i've got one that will work Yes, I do that quite a bit too. Okay, let's go to Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from some SheClickers and I would love you to answer six questions please by picking numbers from one to 10. So could I have your first number please? Number three, Three, please. what's your favorite subject to photograph in winter? That's from Ali.~ that's quite an easy one. Seed heads that are decayed ~ when they're lit up by sunlight. So you use the sun as a backlight and you can make them sparkle. Fantastic. Okay, very straightforward answer there. Can I have your second number, please? Number seven, seven. do you use focus stacking for your flower photography? If so, how do you decide when an image needs it? That question's from Marie-Ange. I hardly ever use focus stacking. I did actually do it last year when I was photographing a caterpillar and I had to, because it had its body was sort of going backwards, so I had to try and get all the different bits of its body. I don't tend to, normally because I never go super close. I usually get, and if it's an insect, I usually try and get it in context, so there's quite a bit of nature around it. So that's. usually why I still might be shooting at f16 perhaps but I tend not to stack I I sometimes will shoot a flower wide open and then with a tripod that take exactly the same shot at F, I don't know, 14 or something. So that the, I know that the middle will always be sharp and then I will manually drop one on top of the other in Photoshop and then just paint out the bits that I don't want. So I'll want like nice blurred petals, but sharp center. So I do that sometimes, but I, the last time I used focus stacking software was a couple of years ago. Can I have your third number, please? One. I love your photographs of flowers growing together, but I don't have access to places with masses of flowers. How can I create an interesting image when I have just one flower to work with? That question is from Keely. Really good question. I sometimes do this in my home where I'll go to the garden centre and I'll buy a pot of flowers and I'll take them home and still sometimes in my conservatory I will cut one and I will put it in a glass or a vase so that it sticks up and I can see the stalk. I don't want to see the vase, I just want to see the stalk. And then I'll have the pot behind it, sometimes a foot behind, sometimes two feet. It's interesting you get different results. And so you get the sense then you've got a single flower growing amongst other ones. And you can also place it exactly where you want to. You get the sense of a group, but only one in focus, but then some lovely sort of out of focus, bokeh or colour in the background. That's a good tip. And do you have an array of different vases and plant holders and stuff filling up your house? Yes, I'm better for hoarder. My window sill has quite a lot of vases. I tend not to do that much still life anymore, but I do have lots of little clamps that can hold flowers. There's one called a Third Hand. It's on my website that's really cheap and really good for that. Okay, have to look out for that. Can I have your fourth number, please? I'm eight. Which garden or park in the UK or anywhere else in the world would you most like to photograph for the first time? That question is from Sue. Bit of a bucket list question.~ Did it say just the UK or anywhere in the world? UK or anywhere in the world.~ I'd really like to go and photograph wildflowers in South Africa.~ and when I retire this is definitely something I'm going to do possibly even a lead trip there because the things that we have that we can't overwinter things like osteosperms grow wild there and they are just like whole hillsides covered Italy has similar sort of scapes like that I think that's the thing that I'll never be able to get sort of close to home but there are There are still gardens that I want to go to in this country that I haven't yet been to and again that's another maybe a retirement plan. There's one, I haven't been to the new RHS garden in Manchester, I'd like to go there. ~ And I've never been to the Sarah Raven Gardens, ~ so that's down towards the south coast, so I'd like to go there. Okay, so a few to think about there. Can I have your penultimate number, please? So. Number four, when you're photographing plants, do you plan around what will be in season or do you prefer to just see what you find on the day? That question's from Nella. A bit of both. ~ Because I go quite regularly, I usually know what I'm going to expect, but I like to not plan too much because sometimes it's the things that you don't expect that make the best photos. particularly with insects, you can find them anywhere. So then you have to think, how can I put this insect, how can I not put it literally? How can I get it into a good composition with what it's on? So that's a nice challenge. Yeah. Do you particularly like photographing insects in flight or do you prefer them of on a flower? are usually on just because of what I'm known for but in flight is always a lovely challenge and if I can get it next in flight next to a flower that's that's lovely I do like a little bit of wing blur I don't like it to be completely frozen but yeah it's again that's a sort of a skill thing that is very important to practice sometimes I think Yeah, it's tricky. Okay, your last number then, please. five Number five, from Stu, have you experimented with intentional camera movement or multiple exposures and how do you see your creativity developing from here? two for the price of one. Yes, Well, yes. yes definitely for ICM. I started Mm-hmm. doing sort of sunsets because I live near the coast and sunsets and water work really well with intentional Mm-hmm. camera movement. And obviously you're sweeping the camera from left to right, but in nature, intentional camera movement works better with verticals. So I might use an autumnal forest with like lots of different colours and do a sort of up to down one. And for me, I know people have different preferences. A third of a second is my go-to shutter speed for that. I think it's really easy to be to get stuck in a rut in any genre really and I think I want to do more towards the landscape end of things, I would like to do more and more insects. I love to raise a profile of insects because they're in such massive decline. I think it's really important that we don't use pesticides and that we look after our insects. yeah, those two directions tempt me, but I'll probably never properly be drawn away from flowers and gardens. They're your real love, but I suppose gardens, landscape, that's quite a good match. Yeah, yeah, I think so. Yeah. Well, Molly, thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. It's been lovely chatting with you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye. Bye bye. Thanks for joining me for this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. I you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Molly's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show and tell all your friends and followers about it. In the meantime, you'll find SheClicks on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube if you search for sheclicks.net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.