I think it kind of gives you some purpose for your trips because if you're just doing projects for yourself, then you need to try and find a way to make them pay or get some recognition for them so that you're getting the publicity because otherwise, they just might just stay on your computer. Hello and welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I speak to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are now. Today our guest is Jo Kearney, an award winning photographer and video journalist whose work has taken her all over the world. She works for broadcasters, including the BBC and Al Jazeera, as well as the International News Agency Associated And she's also the overall winner of the 2026 World Food Photography Awards Sponsored by Tenderstem Bimni Broccolini. Hi, Jo, thank you so much for joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. thank you very much for asking me. Great to be here. thank you. So can we start by finding out what was it that first drew you into visual storytelling? Well, I started off as a print journalist, but always took some photos when I was doing stories, particularly travel ones. So I joined Associated Press TV. And it was at the time of a transition from the huge great big beta cameras to digital. And it just meant that, you know, anyone could really pick up a camera. You didn't need the film cameras. You didn't need all the training. You could just pick up a small camera for about 2000, 3000 pounds and basically, you know, just start doing television. So I bought one of these cameras, I think from down the Tottenham Court Road or somewhere where they had all those electronic shops and I thought where can I go and you know get some good stories for good international stories for AP and I took myself off to southern Sudan. This was in about 1998 when the civil war was happening. I went with this charity, it was an Irish ~ NGO and we started in Kenya and we drove down through Kenya, through Uganda. and then to Southern Sudan. And I managed to kind of get myself some good scoops there. So I've got, found all these prisons of war that were in prison there and sort of filmed them. Found a sort of American guy running a cottage hospital in the middle of nowhere that was quite good for the Americans. I think he was working for the CIA because they had huge dishes up around the hospital. He's massive, great big sort of. listening devices. And also I did another story on just the fighting on the war and came back with the tapes and managed to kind of get them all on top of the top bulletin for three days running. So that's how got into video, initially and then I became a stringer for AP based in Singapore. We'd moved to Singapore and AP didn't have anyone in Malaysia or Singapore. So I covered those patches and then covered the whole of Southeast Asia if there was a big story and they needed extra staff. And while I was in Singapore, I also really got into still photography as well. And there was quite a market for expats buying, you know, nice pictures of, you know, monks and... lovely colourful umbrellas, pagodas, temples, things like that. So I'd travel around South East Asia. I had this little, quite a little deal with a local airline and they would give me a free flight in return for photos and a story. And because I was writing the story, I could then go and stay in some fabulous hotels and mention them in the story as well. So, you know, kind of it was a win-win situation. And then I'd go and do my photography and ~ sell them to expats. So they tend to be kind of rather twee pictures, you know, like monks with, you know, collecting arms, lovely landscapes and fishermen, you know, in Lay Lake, sort of pictures that people would want on their wall. But I guess my journalism was always, you know, that was always behind there and so later I started doing more photojournalism and travel photos rather than these sweet pictures. Did you find a market for that as well? No, I don't, I think they're harder to sell. But actually, because we move from Singapore, I think it's harder to sell prints, you know, I think expats just have more money really. And they're looking to, you know, decorate their homes. But I did, we were living in Dubai, and I did have an exhib, well, I had a couple of exhibitions there. And people did buy them. I mean, some of them were kind of like these Bangladeshi charcoal workers who were just covered in black grime from charcoal that had been imported from places like Madagascar and they'd be just, you know, digging out this charcoal at the docks and but they were wearing such bright colourful clothes and at the top of the the Daos where they were working there was usually a really colourful sort of funnel chimney so I've got these portraits of them, you know, with blackened faces, really bright colours, usually with a something over their head, like a, you know, it's like a t-shirt, kind of covering their sort of head. And then this bright background. So they seemed to be quite popular. And also on the Dao theme, I found that the, I sort of did these pictures of the exteriors of Daos. And they were so kind of like, they were kind of colorful, but they'd all been sort of degraded by the water with moss and everything. So I did a whole series on those and they were really nice on canvas because all of the kind of, just the kind of colours but also just the textures of them. So I did those and they also painted the sort of inside with all the flowers, a bit like how the Pakistanis paint their trucks, you know. And so those made quite nice, you know, pictures as well with the on canvas. There wasn't a market for the news press or anything like that. You've purely taken them for your own pleasure. Yeah, it was for my own pleasure. I was still doing video for news. So, yeah, that was my kind of thing, which is a bit harder really because you've got to do all the editing, you've got to do the interviews, but that was kind of my line of work. So alongside doing the photos, I was covering stories in the Middle East as well as previously was Asia. Yeah. returned to the UK about 10 years ago and carried on doing the news stories So you've worked for the BBC, Al Jazeera and Associated Press, as you mentioned. What do you think you've learned from working with those organisations? mostly I've worked for Associated Press and the other ones were more documentaries and where you have a bit more time and often working for the broadcasters, I was mainly with a correspondent. But with Associated Press, well, you learn to be, have to be very fast. You've got to kind of easily get the story within an hour of arrival. So you've got to just, you know, get pictures really quickly, find out if possible beforehand, try and set up an interview with someone and then get good internet really so that you can feed the story as fast as possible. Yeah. You've covered stories all over the world. Is there one assignment that really fundamentally changed how you see the world or people? the Asian tsunami, those, you know, stories like that, where there so much, so many people died. Mm. And I covered that in, in Sri Lanka, turning up with, you know, about $20,000 worth of equipment, you know, which I managed to rent from Mm-hmm. Singapore broadcaster and taking on the plane and then turning up in Sri Lanka where it was all impounded. And there was about 10 different people. We all had to share one hotel room because, there was this. So it's just, guess just you have to just get on with everyone really in these cases. and everyone works together and the print people and the text people and you share your quotes and help each other out really. Yeah, yeah, I can understand. It's a terrible situation. You can't really do anything about it. You've just got to get on with it, like you say, and accept that it is what it is. And you've to get on with your reporting. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then sometimes getting into places, you know, I remember like covering some earthquakes in Indonesia and, you know, arriving in Indonesia and then just having to try and, you know, find planes to get in, you know, just hanging around. I was used to hitching on planes when I was a backpacker years ago. So kind of served me in good stead for when I had to kind of like find military planes to get into. earthquake zones and things. Is that sort of thing still feasible in 2026?~ I'm not hitching planes. I don't think, like I, I hitched near all around Australia, around the U S but I think when you're in countries where if there's an emergency and you're just trying to get on a military plane, then yeah, you probably can do that. But yeah, otherwise the security, you know, it's not possible. Just, I mean, in those days, you could just turn up and ask someone, can I have a ride in your plane? Hop in. In a lot of your photography, whether it's won an award for food photography or whether it's travel, it seems to centre around people. And that seems to be like the most important connection that you make. Yeah, I think it definitely is. I mean, I have done some landscape photography, you know, being on a couple of landscape trips, you know, to Scotland and to Tuscany. were the two places I always thought that if I was going to go there, it'd be good to do an organized trip where people know, you know, where the beautiful landscapes are. But I think I've kind of nailed down to the fact that actually it is people. People and travel. How do you decide who you're going to photograph? I mean, you go out with a plan, I'm to go and try and find these people or see if I can see this activity and photograph the people there or do you go and see what happens? Uh-huh. OK So I always do research before going on a trip to find out what events are going on. last year, or two years ago now, I was in Pakistan for the Chilam Joshi Festival, which is up in the Kalash valleys. And so I obviously knew that was going on. And so the whole point was to go and photograph the festival. But I never kind of do too much research. I don't want to be disappointed really. I don't like to really look at photos either. I just like to turn up and see. And it's amazing really how things unfold, even if you've got no plan at all and you just turn up and things always seem to be better than you imagine. I guess I try not to have too high hopes before I go. but like to have a sort of rough plan. I just tend to sort of go find my way rather than go on any, you know, organized tour because I find, you know, you might want to spend a few days in a place and if you're on a schedule, then you can't do that. So I'm a bit of a commitment-phobe on that. And when you are somewhere, you arrive, you go to your hotel or wherever you're staying, you go out. How do you kind of think, right, okay, now I'm going to start taking photographs? Do you sort of see a particular scene and hang out there for a bit and start taking photos when something seems to come together? Or do you go to a particular locale area and think, right, okay, let's look for something here? I just get my camera out, know, as soon as I get there and just go, just wander around. It might be the bizarre, first of all, go get to the old part of the town and yeah, just see what's happening really. Because, you know, if there's nothing planned in that place, then you just kind of go and sort of find it really. And, you know, you might have to contact a few people if it's a story that you want. So, you know, they can help you a bit. I mean, when I was in Pakistan, I found some local guides when I was in Peshawar, which I found quite, it was quite useful because it's quite chaotic, the place. mean, in the past, I had traveled on my own sort of all through India and everything, but I just thought it's better as they know the place, you and you haven't got that much time. So it's good sometimes to have a driver or something that can take you to a place. Otherwise you might sort of miss out just wandering around. Yes. So you won the 2026 World Photographer of the Year overall prize. So congratulations again on that. Can you tell us a little bit about, I know we've spoken about it before, but perhaps you can tell us a little bit about that picture. so that was once I was traveling in Tajikistan and in my guidebook, there was mentioning this, it was a Soviet era sanatorium, which I thought, this sounds really good. It's sort of monstrosity of a building built by the Soviets in the Hisar mountains. So ~ I'd been traveling, I traveled along the Pamir highway from Kyrgyzstan and I derived in Dushan Bay but I just couldn't get a contact at this place for some reason and then at my hotel I kind of finally managed to get they called the number and I finally found a contact and he said you know just there's a local little mini bus that leaves the capital you know early in the morning the next day and you know lots of people go and stay there so it so the sanatoriums were set up by the Soviets and it was really for communist workers to go and stay during Soviet times. It was for their holiday. It was like a health break and they go and just recuperate really and be checked out medically. So locals kind of now carry on using this place. It's reasonably priced and they can get sort of have a kind of healthy spa holiday. So ~ I've got the little minibus. It was about an hour and half's drive from the capital Dushanbe and turned up and, you know, didn't have to book or anything, just sort of went to the reception and they booked me in. I think it was about, know, because I had my own room, it was so-called luxury room, I think it was about £25 a night and that included, you know, my own room, three meals a day and treatments. So very, very reasonably priced. and was handed a little health book and then you go to your room. And so then I sort of, I had to go and see a doctor because I was actually doing the programme as well. But I thought, well, if I'm doing the programme, I'll just bring my camera and just, you know, as I was undergoing it, I can just take pictures. So it was kind of felt, you know, you weren't just going in and photographing, you were sitting amongst the women waiting for their treatments. and So when you say the program, you mean the health program you're following? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you kind of initially see a doctor and then they tell you to, so there's different things. There's like these sort of hot paraffin wax treatments that they kind of put on your back or something, you know, if you've got rheumatism or anything. So you're queuing up and the whole place is really quite dilapidated and old. It's very Soviet, hasn't been changed. know, there's stuffing coming out of the chairs. just sort of beige decor. So very basic and you know they have basically it's built on this sort of radon gas springs and so inside the sanatorium they have these sort of hot pools which are basically heated by radon gas so you can only stay in them for like 15 minutes and they have these infused sort of showers and saunas, steam rooms that are also heated by them as well. But the great thing is that the Tajaks are quite traditional, so they still wear their sort of traditional clothes and headdresses, so it kind of makes it quite attractive. And so, yeah, so I was just, you know, was photographing them and they seemed to be quite happy about me taking their pictures, that they, you know, they waited for treatments. And, you know, sometimes people said no, so I had to kind of go and get the guy who spoke a little bit of English, very, very little. and say, you please, can you tell them that, you know, ask them if I can photograph, you know, give them direction, because he was all for publicity. So, you know, I just needed him to kind of tell them that I was here to take the pictures. A few Westerners turn up and people from, you know, smattering of Westerners and a few people from Central Asia go there, but it's mainly, you know, locals. And then, so. Then at lunchtime, everyone goes down to this vast canteen and it's still decorated with Soviet artwork. You know, they've got kind of pictures of smiling women, know, healthy, sort of, you know, typical Soviet style realism work. And then they've got some ones with fruit and things. when I came, I was a bit early coming in and just walking through and the woman in the picture, she was just sat. by herself, you know, just pouring tea with the food just laid out in front of her with this artwork on the back. And it just thought, you know, what a great picture. So I took many pictures in the canteen, but yeah, that was the one. So. What was it that made you when you were entering the World Food Photography Awards, what was it that sort of enabled you to think, right, this is the one I'm putting in? Well, I put in quite a few, to be honest. I tend to just go through what I've got. Have I got any food photos? So I didn't even think I was taking that for that at the time. Because the food photography awards, they're so eclectic, really. So when I was taking it, I wasn't really thinking this is a food shot. It was just part of the sanatorium project. And then I must have just thought, ~ there's food on the table. food on the table, that was the category. So yeah, put it in. and she's there for food. Even if there wasn't food on the table, she was there for that reason. Yeah. Mm. like a compote juice. But she hadn't touched it, so it was all kind of quite neat. Yeah, so it kind of worked for that category. But yeah, hadn't really kind of thought about it at the time. But I think that's... the things I really like about that competition is that, yes, there are food portraits and portraits of chefs and things like that, but there's also more travel pictures and all sorts of things which aren't so obviously food, but they are food related. Yeah. You know, last year, the year before, my winning picture was Afghan women waiting in Peshawar for bread. basically they sit there and then donors just come and put money down so that they can get some free bread and they're Afghan refugees. And again, I didn't really, I didn't think about that one at all. And then just kind of going through my pictures when I was entering and thought, yeah, that could go. Do you only shoot video for work and photography for pleasure or do you blend them a bit? So I'm also trying to do more photography now for work. So I've done a bit of NGO work, like development bank work, which I really enjoy that kind of work. But now I'm just, yeah, actually my TV work, I think it's just dried up actually, because, well, the video work dried up a couple of years ago after the war in Ukraine, because, ~ yeah, they were just relying on AP up in the UK, we're picking up, you know, stuff from ITV, Sky. So I was doing more online editing, now they've, AP are now just opening up in India and they've just employed loads of Indians. So I think we've all got the chop now. I was freelance anyway, so I'm just, yeah, no Yeah, okay. It's part of that, obviously you mentioned the Ukraine war, but also is it partly technology? like you said before, people used to have to use massive beta cameras and it was a big deal. Whereas now even a phone can produce something that's, if it's the right story, that can go on the 10 o'clock news. Yeah, totally. mean, I think there's just so much more material now. So, you know, they're just putting out like the agencies like AP putting out just huge amounts of material and a lot of it is on the phones, but they still, yeah, they still need material. So if I'm traveling, I'll probably find try and find some video stories for them just in the UK. Now I'm not needed. So, I mean, occasionally, but yeah, so. Of all the projects you've worked on, whether for employment or work or for pleasure for your own personal projects, is there a project that you are most proud of? So difficult to say. I Back in the late nineties, I went to Sierra Leone and it was quite soon after the war they had there with the rebels, the RUF rebels, had been particularly nasty, they were cutting people's arms off. So anyway, I turned up there and I was basically contacting some of the, it was like an African force that was out there, peacekeeping force, and they were trying to find some of the child soldiers and girls that had been kidnapped by these rebels and they've been trying for like half a year more than that going out to the jungle trying to find them and I managed to get the number for the sort of chief, the commander and he said they're just going out now but they could pick you up on the way and I managed to kind of get in with them and we went out to the jungle and it just happened that day they found all these child soldiers and and girls in the middle of the jungle. So that was one of the biggest scoops that I've done. so they were trying to basically negotiate with these rebels who had guns and were shooting in the air and everything. And they had these trucks to get these kids away. And they were trying to get them away. And then one of the rebels was getting angry. firing the gun and everything. So they're trying to get these kids as fast as possible into these trucks. They managed it. then we, I think I was in the truck with them. So I've got pictures of them in these, and we're driving. And then I think all the people on the side of the streets in Sierra Leone, they suddenly realized as we going into Freetown that these were these kids that had been kidnapped. And they were all singing, the people in the trucks, all the kids were singing and... everyone was just lining the streets, kind of greeting them. So was like, yeah, it was very emotional. thought it was fantastic. I Yeah. Yeah. That does sound a fabulous story to report, but what an emotional moment. Yeah, totally. mean, was a good news story, but bittersweet really, because the next day you've got the families kind of claiming them. But a lot of the girls were pregnant and they'd also been through so much that you just wonder the traumas that they faced. Yes, yeah. So what's next for you? You say you're concentrating more on photography now. Have you got any projects in mind? So next month I'm heading to Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and possibly Afghanistan, if I can afford to do that one. So the last time I went to Kazakhstan was in 1992, just as the Soviet Union broke apart. at that time I went, my plan then was I contacted towns in the UK that were twinned with Russian. towns, Soviet towns, know, and they usually had someone who spoke English, it was normally the English teacher in that town. so I went, in fact, I flew to Moscow then, so that was back in 1992, the Soviet Union had just broken up. And the first place I went to was a place called Kustanai, which is sort of up near Siberia. And they were twinned with Huddersfield. And as it happened, there was this rock band from Huddersfield who was coming out to play in, they weren't actually really from Huddersfield, they're actually from Cambridge University, but there was some link and they were coming out on a train. And so they said, can you go with them? And so someone met us in Moscow and we went on this four day train journey. So was the English teacher and the music teacher, I think, from the school. And we went out there and they played and yeah, it was fascinating. And then I kind of carried on really from there, took a plane down to Steve Midges twin town, which is a place called Shem Kent. And I was kind of arrived at four in the morning and there was kind of greeted with a red carpet and the mayor's car with flags. And at four in the morning, they still had some party for me when I arrived. And then I carried on and I went to Almaty, which was then the capital. and didn't really have any contacts there. for some reason I managed to go to this, it was like a new MBA college that was being set up by the EU. because in those days I couldn't just go and find any hotel, it was still like the Soviet Union, where you couldn't just turn up at a hotel, you had to kind of have permission from Moscow. But luckily there was a student in Almaty who, she heard me speaking English and all these students had been kind of black marketeers and were very kind of they were very entrepreneurial and canny. And she said, I've got two rooms, come and stay with me and teach me English. So I ended up staying there quite a bit of time in Almaty. And then I kind of carried on and went to Uzbekistan and various places. But so this is the first time I'm going back there since that time. And so I'm kind of looking at some projects to do, but so far I haven't really been able to find contacts. But one of the places is called Karaganda, which is where all the gulags were. So I'm going to go there. I don't know if you've been there, that's where everyone was deported ethnic Germans and Koreans, and they were deported by Stalin. And there's like a memorial to them. think there might be some children still alive. So I need to do a bit more research on that. And then I was going to go to Semi, which is where all the nuclear testing took place. And then, yeah, so still trying to find some stories around there. And then going to Uzbekistan and going to this gallery, which is in the middle of nowhere in the desert called Savitsky Gallery. And it was this Russian guy who basically collected all this artwork. from dissident artists, many of them who perish in the gulags. And he kind of saved this artwork. And it's just in the middle of nowhere, thousands and thousands of paintings. So I'm gonna do that and then hopefully cross the border and go through Afghanistan. Wow, that sounds fascinating. How long are you planning to make that trip? I think it will be four to six weeks. Okay, yeah, it sounds longer, but yeah, amazing. mean, I don't have much money to be honest, but I'll be spending my prize money from my Food Photographer Award which I probably should be keeping for my living. Yeah. I look forward to seeing some pictures. Yeah. So let's go to Six From Sheclicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers., I would like you to answer six of them, please, by picking numbers from one to 10. So could I have your first number, please? My goodness, okay, number one. So, what has been the hardest story you've had to cover and how did you deal with it afterwards? That question's from Sue. I suppose the hardest was probably the Asian tsunami because, you know, that was, again, it was very exhausting because I think when I arrived, I'd had insomnia for a week and then I arrived in Sri Lanka and we didn't have any accommodation, so they were all just sleeping on floors. And I remember being absolutely exhausted. And then, but you had to just go straight in and it such a, you know, just such a massive story unfolding, you know, as people were coming into Colombo with tales and it was just terrible pictures of people in mortuaries, know, these, you know, bodies and mortuaries, and then people just, you know, dead everywhere amongst all the ruins. And you were just trying to also kind of get out of Colombo. difficult with transport because the roads were all damaged. so I think that was probably one of the hardest and exhausting stories I've had to do. Yeah. And how do you kind of process or get over that kind of situation? I don't know, just, think I'm probably quite tough. just, yeah, I just, you know, just, you know, also I think when you see things through a lens as well, you do have distance from it. Another one I remember years ago going, it was just basically after the Romanian revolution and I was working on a local newspaper in the UK. But I was more interested in international news, really, particularly Eastern Europe. And I managed to, I found this like local mercy mission that was collecting. And so I kind of got myself involved with that and, you know, basically set up my office. I was in a district office for collecting things for Romania. And we kind of drove out these post office trucks with aid to these orphanages. And some of them were absolutely terrible. I mean, literally people. the kids were so disabled and people having like ears growing on top of their heads and knees opening the wrong way and kids just like sleeping in most appalling conditions and these cots with their hands tied to the railings just basically lying in excrement, Mm. terrible these kind of cold old castles that had no central heating or anything. and the kids were just kind of given this sort sloppy porridge. And I think that was one of most shocking things that I've seen. Yeah, gosh, it sounds horrendous. Okay. Should we go to your second number, please? number four. Number four, what motivates you to enter competitions and how do you decide which ones to enter? That question's from Marie-Ange. So I usually choose a few competitions and that's, I usually choose the Travel Photographer of the Year because I feel I'm a travel photographer. The Food Photographer of the Year because it's so vast, you know, there's so many different categories. And I think it's also quite a fun one if you kind of get through, if you're shortlisted or if you're a finalist, you know, it's quite a fun evening going up to the Mall Galleries., even if you don't win. So you know that that's a good one and then I'm also a member of the Royal Photographic Society so I enter some of their competitions as well but I think that's probably about it. Okay. Is it just a fun thing to do? Or do you like the discipline of finding the images that you feel are the best ones to enter? Yeah, I think it kind of gives you some purpose for your trips because if you're just doing projects for yourself, then you need to try and find a way to make them pay or get some recognition for them so that you're getting the publicity because otherwise, they just might just stay on your computer. So it's a good way just to get your work out there really and give yourself a name. Yes, and I think particularly if you're covering stories as well, it obviously gives them a profile. Yeah, exactly. All right, so I can have your third number, please.~ number seven. Number seven, have you ever felt threatened or uncomfortable while working on an assignment? Several people asked that. I've been so lucky that I feel that I just haven't had any threats really, being, you know, filming or... doing photos. And I've been asked this question before, because I was one of the first sort of women video journalists, because it was about 30 years ago when I started. And people have asked me that. I just have never really been threatened. I've just had a few incidents. I remember I was doing some stories for AP in Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan. And I was in Turkmenistan filming some people picking cotton. and then someone threw a stone, which actually knocked my glasses off, but it could have been, if they'd broken my camera, would have been really, absolutely devastated. And then I remember one time being in the Soviet Union, like back in 92, and I was like photographing around like a market or something, and this man kind of followed me up some, know, into one of these Soviet apartments. And I think I had like had watermelon, like I kind of threw it down at him. and he kind of went off probably drunk or anything. yeah, that's about the only thing really. I suppose like dodgy flights, dodgy flights, that's the one thing that scares me the most. yeah. Yes, I can imagine that. Especially if you're hitching, or as you used to hitch on flights, then you probably don't have much prior knowledge of their safety records and things like that. Okay, can I have your fourth number, please? number five. This is from Gisella. How much research do you do before a work trip and what sources of information do you use? Now you said you don't tend to do a huge amount of research because you like to be surprised, but what do you look at? So I still do quite a bit, to be honest. Okay. So I look at guidebooks, travel books like Bradt Guide. I try and read some books around those countries, travel books mainly, photo books, not so much photo books really, more travel to get ideas and look at the internet. But to be honest, often if there's not that much information, it just means that not many people have gone there and it might be a thing actually. Mm-hmm. obviously if there's lots of stories, then it's already been done. So you have to, you take a bit of a risk really, just going and hoping for the best really. What gets you more excited sort of seeing something you're thinking, well, that looks interesting or not really seeing much and thinking there could be something. Okay, yeah, it's an easier leap. Yes, yeah, beforehand. It's nice to know that there might be something because you know the trouble is you don't have that much time with these trips normally and so you don't want them to be a waste of time and you do kind of worry like am I going to find anything and is it going to be this good but yeah luckily things tend to be good. I find sometimes if I go to a place, then I might find things for the next trip. So, yeah, I was in Kyrgyzstan and this was about nine years ago now. I was basically traveling around and I actually had the luxury of a car and driver at this place. And on the way back, we stopped at this very kind of, it was really kind of rundown Soviet era town. with all these factories and and Lenin, know, statues of Lenin covered in weeds and I just thought, and I took a few pictures but I thought, yeah, I'll come back and do this, you know, and I got quite a good project out of that one when I came back and, you know, lot of the young people had kind of left and they kind of left all their children with their grandparents, so these poor pensioners were kind of, not only did they have limited Soviet pensions, but they were having to look after their grandchildren. They were bemoaning the breakup of the Soviet Union when they could just travel around to Moscow and everywhere. Now they were just like a third world country. So yeah, that was quite an interesting project. That must be, it must be tricky sometimes, like to go somewhere and sort of like say, see something that, this could be a good project, but actually realize, but I need to give it more time. So I'll have to come back. I can't just spend a day on this. Yeah, sometimes. you know, I probably took a few pictures, but then I just thought that it's worth. And also I was coming back. There were other projects I wanted to come back for. So, yeah, I came back and I was photographing the the walnut pickers of Arslanbob, which, you know, so it's good. It's a good way to research it, really, to be there sometimes. And also I'd done some really good photography on that trip. You know, I'd been to Song-Kul Lake, which at that time all the kind of local nomads would come up there with their cattle and horses and they kind of put up these yurts and they still had the old Soviet larders and it was fantastic, was just really beautiful pictures. And now, I think now 10 years on that doesn't happen now, it's becoming like a tourist lake, so things change quickly. Yeah, yeah, okay. So can I have your penultimate number please?~ okay, nine. Number nine, what do you think is the most underrated destination for travel photography? That question's from Liz. Pakistan. Yeah, I think I would have said Morocco years ago because I Morocco was so photogenic. And when I first went, which was probably 30 years ago, no one was going there. It was just a few, you know, package holidays, cheap package holidays. And it was just incredible. And you know, there were no tourists at all. Now, of course, it's so overdone. But Pakistan, know, people didn't go there because of the security situation, but it is just so beautiful. The mountains, the people, it's just one of the most photogenic and just beautiful places I've been to. Okay, right, put that on the list. Can I have your final number, please? Ten. Number 10, this is a good one to finish on. Do you have a bucket list of places you'd still love to photograph? That question's from Helen. So I have been to Cuba many times, but I still haven't been to the east of Cuba. And so I'd like to go there. South America I've never been to apart from Mexico, which isn't South America. So yeah, once I finished doing the Stans, which, in Central Asia, which I seem to be like focusing on so much, then I will be traveling to South America and Central America. Okay, yeah I've got a friend who loves South America and she goes back whenever she can. really loves it. She's not a photographer but she does love South America. So I'm sure you'll get some great pictures. So Jo, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. It's been absolutely fantastic chatting with you. Lovely, well thank you so much. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for asking me. thank you. You're very welcome. Thank you. Bye bye. bye! Thanks for joining me for this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Jo's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show and tell all your friends and followers about it. In the meantime, you'll find SheClicks on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube if you search for SheClicksNet. So until next time, enjoy your photography.