The whole idea with photography, from my point being more real, more honest, more it's not being created by AI. And I think I'm hoping, this is my touch-wood wishful thinking, that that's going to be something that people value more because that's what I love personally, not even thinking about from a business point of view, but my personal interest is that honesty. And I think that's what I love about, you know, kind of older photographers, with a shot in film, you know there's very little kind of like messing around those photos and I love the fact that these photos cannot lie. Hello and welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I speak with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. My guest today is Amy Shore, an award-winning automotive photographer and Nikon ambassador who is known for her distinctive storytelling style and images featuring classic vehicles. Hi, Amy. Welcome to the She Clicks Women in Photography podcast. Thanks for joining me today. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm so sorry. My cat is already trying to join the conversation here. My apologies. Well, that's all right. That's all right. She can join in. That's good. Have a little pair of ears sticking up the top and from the bottom. That's quite nice. So. he he may hang around or he may disappear in a moment. So we'll see. Okay, no problem. are welcome. Cats are welcome. So I think you originally studied silversmithing, didn't you, at university? So where did your interest in photography stem from? I think I've always enjoyed being a photographer even just as a hobbyist because I've always thought myself as a very impatient artist. from the point I think I picked up my first digital camera from maybe the age of like 13 or something like that. My dad is a keen photographer, just again, a hobbyist. And he always had a load of film cameras around, but I never really touched those. wasn't until digital really came in that he was like, okay, you can have a go at this camera if you want. when I started kind of borrowing his camera and then you know a bit of a better camera I that's quite good fun. But no to be completely honest I've said this before a number of times but I never actually thought it was a realistic job opportunity to be a photographer so I just didn't really didn't really bother I just thought there's no way I'll be able to get an actual living or make an actual living out of doing this so I may as well just go and learn something and do photography as a hobby on the side. and if I can make a few extra quid at the weekend doing a shoot here and there, great. If I can't, well, I've not lost anything. So I went to university to study silversmithing, metalsmithing, without really any plan other than just to do something creative⁓ and then never use my degree and I've become a photographer from basically the first day of graduating. So that's all I've ever known.⁓ That's great. It's really interesting how we sort of make these decisions. I'm with you. I kind of never really thought of photography as a viable career for myself. But I don't think I would have thought of jewellery making either as one. I mean, maybe you're doing something else with your metal work. No, I think we're the exact same. I don't know. think because any creative industry, if you were to think of it from its kind of face value, you'd think, ~ could you do a job being an artist, a designer maybe you could possibly get away with. the silversmithing, I suppose that, you know, the world of jewelry, the business of jewelry is people always want jewelry. So, it's the, I guess it was going to be either that or my dad as well has always done. like crash helmet and motorbike painting, like, you know, custom helmet designs and stuff like that. Yeah. So I just thought, well, that looks like fun. And it's basically art just on something interesting. Mm-hmm. So maybe I end up doing that as well. So yeah, didn't really, my entire career plan was to basically follow my dad's footsteps of his career and go into something artistic. I suppose that's the... that a big inspiration, I saw him doing an artistic job and all these people he worked with in an artistic job because he worked for a theming company for many years. Basically, you know, if you go to Alton Towers or you look in, you know, expensive shop window and you see some gizmo going on or a talking parrot or, you know, you're at Alton Towers and you have some fire breathing dragon come over the ride, Yeah. whatever it might be, the company he worked for made all of these things. And so I, as a child, as a very young child would go into this workshop~ and see all of these incredible designers, costume makers, know, animatronic engineers. And I was like, wow, this is cool. And to me, they were all artists. So I just thought, well, there is obviously a creative, a way of making money, being a creative and see, I just kind of always fell into that kind of trusting the process that I would find something and just photography was never something I even considered, I suppose because nobody I had ever met had made a living being a photographer unless they were supported by a second job or a second person. So all of my experience of photographers were not that successful, I suppose, at the time. I think that the rise of the internet dramatically changed a lot of that, or at least we can now see a lot more people doing photography as a living, as well as just doing weddings or families. I never even... knew that car photography was a thing. just thought, you know, somewhere somebody took a car and photographed it and it went on a billboard. I didn't know the extent of the job that I now do. Yeah. And probably to an extent, my job may not have existed 20, 30 years ago. Just from, again, the rise of the internet and social media, people need a lot more imagery all of the time. So, yeah, I kind of feel that a number of these different bits meant that Yes. I ended up growing up being that you're thinking, okay, I could be an artist in some shape or form. And it just happened to be a photographer in the end. yeah. ~ Yeah, fantastic. So how did the photography really kickstart? said as soon as you graduated, you pretty much transitioned to be a photographer. Yes, so I had over the course of my degree had always done the photography in terms of like I'd shot the odd wedding and the weddings actually started to pick up quite a bit for somebody still in education I was probably doing two or three weddings a year at the time I graduated with a friend of mine as well You know, we were only in our late teens early 20s So it wasn't necessarily our friends getting married or you know, we had started to build a little bit of a clientele and then while I was up university, I think I spent the very last of my student loan on a nice camera, a Nikon D600, and I'd spent money on a classic Mini because I liked driving car around. the kind of the car desire came a little bit early on as well, again, through my dad and my brother, actually, as well. My brother got a classic Mini and I was like, that's kind of cool. I'll get one too. And my dad was like, know Minis inside out, I can fix them. So when they inevitably breakdown we will be like dad can you please fix our cars or our cars and so yeah between the getting the car and yeah getting the car getting the camera and these weddings by the time I graduated three things happened all in the space of about six weeks I photographed the most amazing wedding I went to an event called the goodwood revival which is an amazing automotive I'm sure you know~ with my dad. My dad said to me, think you'd love this just from the atmospheric point of view, from photographing people and just enjoying the whole, you know, the magic of it. And then again, friends of my dad built a replica. It's called a Ferrari P4. There's not very many of them. Very beautiful car. And they built one that I basically built this car and asked me to photograph it just for their reference more than anything. because I had just got this nice camera and it was a quality camera to take pictures of stuff. They originally asked my dad first and then he was like, oh, Amy's camera is better than mine. So yeah, those three things, the revival, that Ferrari shoot and this wedding all happened very closely together and all three kicked off in their own way. Goodwood ended up seeing the photographs and saying, hey, we really like your stuff, do you want to start shooting some events for us? And I thought, cool, that's great. The Ferrari images, yeah, really helped. Very nice. the Ferrari images ended up going viral online, which meant that a couple of photography outlets, so one called Classic Driver, one called Petrolicious, they saw my work and were like, hey, we'll hire you to start taking pictures of cars for us. And I was like, OK, cool. And then finally, the wedding was beautiful. And I must have got three or four weddings just from that wedding, which in those in turn, I got another three or four weddings and it just got that snowboard as well. So all these things went from me being a poor graduate to an initially poor photographer, because I was still living with my parents having only graduated about three months before having no plan of what to do. I was working, what was I doing for a job? I think I was working in an art gallery at the time and which I really enjoyed. yeah, the basic, the photography work kicked off really quite quickly. Oh, was a book designer. I was a book designer for a bit, Ha ha. a friend of mine that I met in the art gallery. knew that I was artistic and said, you know, do you want to hear some text, here's some images, do you want to make them into a book? I had no experience. I just blanked it and said, yeah, go on, I know how to do that. I'll do that. Downloaded InDesign and then, you know, off I went to learn how to do that. So I was already starting to be freelance from doing some of these other little jobs. So it didn't scare me too much moving into this photography world. And then, within kind of six months, I got really busy. And then in two years, I got really, really busy. And then I had to give up. the weddings because I had to pick either cars or weddings and I had some opportunities to go to some amazing car events and things. I couldn't do it because I'd have a wedding smack bang in the middle of it. so weddings are fantastic. And I would absolutely love to shoot weddings still Mm-hmm. because there's so much fun when you've got a fantastic bride and groom and they're really great in terms of from a business point, knowing your cashflow over the year, you're like, okay, cool. I've got loads in the summer and I've got less than the winter, whatever it might be. doing kind of automotive photography, it's a lot shorter in terms of how much your calendar is booked up. So I'm nearly always pretty busy over the summer. I'm nearly always pretty quiet over Christmas, January, February. So at least I have a rough idea of my workflow, but it would be nice to be a little bit busier in the winter. You've got the odd like kind of ice race, but that's about it. yeah, maybe I'll just take it winter weddings again or something like that, just only in the winter. Yeah. Or head to the southern hemisphere.~ yeah, could do like three months in like an Australian New Zealand, something like that. What's the of that? Yeah, that could work for you. just work. But it is nice to have some downtime as well, rather than just be working every day or, Yes, true. I have to say, you know, all through the year. over winter, I do end up eating really healthily. I go on lots of winter nighttime runs and I planned actually to renovate this house Yeah a little bit more, but I ended up being a bit busy and I thought it was going to be so the house has not moved on at all. Mm-hmm. So yeah, and ~ I had a baby like a year and half ago, so he's kept me really busy. So yeah, Yeah, so you've got quite a lot going on. no, I've been busy still. Yeah. So what is it really about automotive photography that really floats your boat?~ I love the people in the automotive world. Mm-hmm. If anything, has nothing to do with the cars whatsoever or very little to do with the cars. People would say to me, one of the biggest compliments people say to me on a fairly regular basis, which I really like, is that they are, quote, I'm not a car person, but I really like the shots. I'm like, yes, that's what I want to try and get across. Mm-hmm. The whole atmosphere of the automotive world is not just what you see on I know people, you know, hooning up and down the street in their Honda Civic or whatever it might, you know, I see that I'm very lucky that the world that I see is a one where beauty and automotive design is really important and the adventures that people go on in these machines and the engineering quality and a lot of these and all of that and people, obviously the people around this as well where I'm photographing drivers, owners, mechanics, rally navigators, this whole different lot of people I find really interesting just from a pure photography point of view. And photographing cars, especially the classic cars that I'm more known for, really just very beautiful things to look at, in my opinion, even if you know nothing about them. When I first started, I knew nothing about cars and motorcycles at all. To an extent, the only information I know about them now is the stuff that I've worked on over the years. some people will say to me, oh, what do you think of the new la la la la la? And I'd be like, I have no idea what that is because it's not what I'm working with. It's not necessarily my interest. My interest now is more classic cars and the design of classic cars and the road trips you can do with them. Some modern stuff as well, but not as much. yeah, it's but the people involved is really what I like. So for example, last week, I did a shoot of a rally navigator and there was no car involved whatsoever, just him as a portrait shoot and all of his helmets and his race suits and his like race notes, I forgot what they're called, rally notes, you know, what he's reading and it's wonderful. Yeah. I absolutely loved just chatting to him, hearing his stories and all of that I found really exciting, know, crashes that he's had, the problems they've had mechanically and That is just something I think, well, you know, would never have thought about that if somebody had said, or what's it like to be a car photographer? I would have thought you would just photograph boring new cars to sell. And it's not, it's no, at least I'm very lucky my job isn't just that. Yeah, I think that's probably true of quite a lot of genres where think wedding photographers only shoot weddings, but they tend to do engagements and elopement shoots and other bits of portraiture as well. it's quite varied, it's not automotive photography. It's not a world many of us are familiar with. When I think of your photography, I do tend to think of the classic cars, as you said, and you've got a particular style. I love those muted tones, that warm look that you often have, all your black and white. And many people say, I like to tell a story with my photos, but I always feel that yours really do have a story. Maybe that's because of the vintage nature and the clothing that people tend to wear in the pictures. Is that something you've really consciously worked on? That's, yes, I suppose it is. And that probably stemmed originally from the wedding photography. So when I first started shooting weddings and I found this kind of style and visual look that I really enjoyed, I like the muted tones. It's the, somebody wants to describe my kind of editing style as, know, if you print an image on a really nice kind of like matte paper in a a quality magazine, my images from a digital point kind of look like that. Mm-hmm. I thought, you know, well, yes, Yeah, take that. they do. I tried to do that anyway. The slight issue, not even issue, but I'm now known for this style of photography. Mm-hmm. And so I can't really ever dramatically change if I want, even if I wanted to, because that is now my product that I provide people and people hire me for that look. Sometimes I have people, especially in the more commercial world that go, hey, we love the way you tell stories in your images, but we'd like the editing to be a bit different because it doesn't suit our And I'm like, I totally get that. And we'll work together with a compromise. And that, you know, when it comes to the... the kind of the storytelling side of things. I think one of the main things is not just about my editing of muted tones, but again, from just shooting weddings from a completely repertoire photojournalistic point of view, I don't use any artificial lighting whatsoever. It is only natural lighting because I, again, all of my, I've got a load of books next to me on my bookshelf and all of them are kind of photojournalist. People have just documented adventures like motorbike adventures that they've on with my one of my favorite photographers ever, there's a chap called Harry Benson and he's just, know, stuff, the book I've got of his are just loads of his shoots where he's been a photojournalist with newspapers, but also of celebrities, not in a paparazzi kind of way, but hanging out with them and telling their stories, he hung around with the Beatles quite a lot. And all of these things, I just think, oh man, I just, love the way that when you just work the natural light, you really kind of have to look for the light, the images, the... That is the thing that I think gets across the kind of honesty in a lot of these photographs. I adore some photographers who really know how to work with lighting and I follow quite a few photographers who just studio stuff because I think, man, I can't do that. I don't know how to do that. I'm not very good at that. And I ~ love what it looks like. But in terms of storytelling myself, the natural light only is something that I really enjoy working with. So again, going back to this shoot with this rally driver last week, I did a shoot in his office, his office building, very small office building, the kind of place where the tables are, the cheap kind of orangey lacquered tables are not particularly nice. You've got your overhead strip lighting. Oh my God, that's not very nice. And then they had another room where there was these odd downward lights. None of it was very good. There was also very few windows as well. what am going to do here? And then there's this one window that was like frosted glass, like a security window. And said, can we just set some stuff up over here? Because I quite like this light. we switch the lights off? So I've just reduced all the light to the one window, basically. And I really love the images that have come out of that. Just this real soft, lovely storytelling vibe, as if he's just. sat in an armchair in a corner and this little window come out and he's just like, well, let me tell you about this rally we did and where I won this race suit. We got this trophy and all of those things. Mm. But it's the limitation of the light, which ended up forcing me to be more creative. And I say this a lot to people when I teach them, I think if you're, if you limit yourself or you are limited, you are forced to be more creative. And that can sometimes create something that you never even thought would be, would be something you'd enjoy, you'd like or would be better than if you had all of the opportunities and all of the help and technical lighting or lenses or whatever. yeah, I quite like the just with the natural lighting because I think it does help tell the story a lot more and yeah, it forces me to be more creative in certain situations. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. If you use artificial light, there's also a sort of a habit of you bring one light in, we need to fill those shadows, bring another light in and then we've got a shadow. Yeah. well, before you know it, you you've got a million, million lights and more shadows, of course, because they all create a shadow. But yeah, if you strip it back and really think about what you're trying to do and take some light out in your case, yeah, you create something really interesting. That's incredible. So. Do you use any of the colour controls in your camera or do you rely on your processing to get that look? I rely purely on the processing. I think my cameras are set up to the most basic of basic, Mm-hmm. like auto white balance, manual, like a ship manual and everything. I'm probably a really bad person to talk to about the technical side Mm-hmm. You of photography because I keep it so minimal. I rely heavily on the lenses that I shoot with. So the quality of my lenses really I'm really interested in. Mm-hmm. In my case, I use a polarizing filter a lot when it comes down to the car photography, but apart from that, Mm-hmm. everything else is going to be editing side of thing in the post processing. Yes, we have the light that I've got there and then or the editing afterwards. I use two Nikon Z9 cameras now and it's wonderful having this new kind of, I say new, it's been around for ages now. the kind of facial recognition, Yeah. Yep. the automotive recognition part of the camera because that now means I get a lot more hit rate shots and rather than me flicking through a load of like car to car tracking shots and being like my god that's rubbish, that's rubbish, that's rubbish. Usually my hit rate's a lot higher now which is good. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it certainly made that kind of thing a lot easier. But I think also it's not so much about ease sometimes, it's about freeing you up to be able to concentrate on the really important things Mm. like composition and timing. Because even if you can shoot a million frames Yep. a second, it still comes down to being able to spot the shot coming together and to press the button at the right time. Yeah, it's funny actually. I tried to explain this to somebody recently, because I don't realize it, I do it, but I think my finger acts before my brain like realizes the shot. So, and then I'm like, that's a nice shot. You And by then, by the time I thought it's finished thinking that's a nice shot, already taken a picture. And that's something I think just over years of just doing the job of it's become almost like an automatic reflex to take a shot at the right point rather than thinking about it. But I'm doing as a job, I take a lot of photographs and I have to photograph in a lot of the jobs that I'm doing. yeah, it's the automatic response, as you said, it's allowing me to kind of let my brain fall into that kind of how is the light working, how is the composition looking process, rather than thinking, is it in focus? Most of time it is, yes it is, Yeah, it's a given. Yeah. which is yes. So you're now a Nikon Europe ambassador. You started out as a Nikon UK ambassador. How did that all come around? Oh, it's really lovely actually on my, um, what year would it have been? I think it's the 20, it might have been 2016 or 2017. I got a phone call on my birthday of, from someone at Nikon, they think, Hey, we really, uh, like your stuff where you, wrote a blog post on your website called How to be a Car Photographer. And we really liked that you want to share the information of how you do your job. Mm-hmm. Would you like to have a chat about being an ambassador for us? And I was like, Oh my God, absolutely. Um, so that was really, really lovely. so initially I think I was only going to be an ambassador for kind of two or three years because they change ambassadors every two or three years Mm. or they used to. And then, um, I think I was actually to be completely honest, I think I was quite lucky. Some people move jobs then they were like, Oh, we'll extend for another year. And then the way that Nikon changed their ambassadors kind of did change. And then I've now been with them for quite a while and they are. fantastic to me and I need to try and be better for them because they're so good to me. So yeah, I've been with them now for, Hahaha I'm pretty sure I think this year was like the 10th year I've been an ambassador for them. know. And then as a, as a European ambassador, would have been 20, next year would be 10 years, it was 2017. So yeah, they asked me to be, if I wanted to be a European ambassador a couple of years ago. And I was like, absolutely. Yes, please. And yeah, no, I, the first camera I ever worked with was a Nikon and then you start building up your lenses and people say to me, when Sony had the big push, they we've all gone Sony and I thought, it's going to cost me thousands of pounds to change and there's nothing wrong with Yeah. what I'm using. love what I'm using. images, think my colour grading, the way I shoot, everything kind of looks how I feel my work should look. Why do I want to change that? So no, Mm-hmm. I have shot with Nikon forever and I will... continue to do so. I think cameras are an emotive tool as well. mean, there are some people who chop and change, Yeah. but actually you form a connection with something that allows you to capture the world as you see it. And like you say, you get to know all its quirks, how it produces color, just exactly where the buttons and dials are. So you don't really want to change all that, do you? No, exactly. Like when you're using a tool for so many years to do a job, as you said, I kind of know it almost inside out. yeah, when it comes down to like even the colouring, I keep looking down at my cameras, which are next to me. When I think about the colouring side of things, especially when I used to shoot weddings, my assistant shot Canon. And so when I would come to edit both of our pictures, I'd have to edit his differently to how I do mine to make the colours feel right again. I'm a that's a bit... I wonder if I can get him to change on to Nikon. I strongly do believe that the way that my images look are hugely down to the way that Nikon camera, sensors, lenses are. If I used anything else, Mm-hmm. think my style would change to something that I wouldn't feel was me. So yeah, ⁓ no, don't want that. Yeah, you don't want that.⁓ So when you turn up to somewhere like Goodwood Revival, what are you, I mean, you probably know that place Inside Out, but that event Inside Out as well, what are you looking for initially? How do you go about your day? Well, so I will get given a brief first, usually from whoever I'm working for. Most of the time I'm working for Goodwood. Sometimes I'm working for other companies like Pirelli is somebody that I work for a lot. And I will think I have to fall into their brain way of thinking more than anything. So for instance, Pirelli are very artistic and it's not just about the tires. Mm-hmm. They want all of the people shots, all of the real atmospheric, moody shots. Goodwood want a bit more kind of like bright and my god, this was the event and it's shiny and happy and a great place to come Mm-hmm. and bring your family. so I have to think from a bit more of a commercial way of thinking in that sense. But whatever I'm shooting, the very first thing I'm focusing on is again, back to the basics is light. So I'll try and stay as busy as I can for the first hour or two of the three days of Goodwood because the light is the nicest. It's the middle of September, the event. middle of the day, a bit bright but okay, the later evening stuff was really, really gorgeous. the very first thing I'm doing is I usually start from a locational point of view. And it's, I suppose, a really boring, obvious thing that you walk out of the media centre of Goodwood and you are there in basically the paddocks where all of the cars are parked. Nothing's going on on the track at the time, so there's no point me trying to focus on it. Goodwood usually put on my brief, because I photograph people just as much as cars, We could also probably have about 10, 15 photographers and we all have different briefs to try and make sure everything's covered. So I'm always covering a lot of the people stuff and the fashion and the atmosphere. So they may say in my brief, okay, go to the entrance where there's always some circus of something happening and actors and it's always exciting and photograph people walking in as they're arriving and all of their facial expressions and all the jollity that's happening there. And then I go there slowly. through the paddocks just to see if there's any kind of like early morning of cars. People usually like already, you know, mechanical cars. And just because the way the light comes through is just really, really beautiful. But then some years it's hammering you down with rain and you just try to find somewhere with a warm cup of tea and somewhere that's a bit dry to take a few first photographs. So it depends really on, the weather is very dependent on where I start. But yeah, I do try to bosh through my brief pretty early on or I check the weather to see. what's going to work best over the three days and tick it off. So if a certain part's where I've got to shoot only indoors, I'm like, ah, you can wait to the middle part of the day when the light is not great or it's going to rain on Saturday. I'll do that a bit on Saturday. So I do try to kind of break it down because I'm always working for a client. It's not like I'm going just for fun. I, yeah, I think it's somebody who would say to me, Yeah. we generally want to come to the event just for fun. And I've tried that in some events and I kind of lose my direction a bit. And I think, oh, what do I photograph? can photograph, do I start here? And I like having a reason and a bit of a purpose Yeah. and kind of a, yeah, something to set me on a path. Because otherwise you end up just floating and kind of getting shots. yeah, having a deadline, I'm like, right, okay. For example, will never ask me, Goodwill never asked me to get the atmosphere in the pit lane because it doesn't sell tickets. Pit lane photography does not sell tickets because as a spectator, you can't go into the pit lane unless you're a driving mechanic, whatever. But I love that. So just from the atmosphere. So I will kind of work out my brief and my schedule of the weekend and in my gaps, right. That's the driver change race. I'm going to slot myself into the pit lane there, which I wouldn't necessarily do if I could kind of go all the time because I've only got like that specific slot time or I'll try and make it work. So yeah, it is handy kind of being forcefully busy at these events because it really makes my schedule a lot tighter and the clarity of what I want to photograph. a lot more kind of vivid I guess if that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because otherwise, think actually it's very easy if you've got all the time in the world, you know, you haven't got a brief to sort of slip into, this is really exciting photographing this. And then before you know it, spent the entire day in one place taking basically the same shots because it's exciting. And what you really need to do is that perhaps move on to something else and experience something else. But like you said, there's so many things, Yes. particularly I think at Goodwood Revival to photograph because a lot of people dress up as well. Exactly and so this is the thing like sometimes I might photograph somebody like which looks great. one person or two people that look interesting to me but usually every year on my brief is to go and photograph the best dressed competition so suddenly I'm looking or Goodwood will say we need to show off you know costume over the year on social media they will show off like Mm-hmm. I know they'll do like an Instagram post of the 10 things you can do to elevate your fashion this year whatever and they'll be talking about ties brooches jackets dresses shoes And it's in my head thinking, OK, I they're going to do that. So I'll start looking more at these things. If I wouldn't necessarily look for it, it not in my brief? Because I'm interested in the cars. I like the fashion as well, but it wouldn't necessarily spark my thought process because I would just be thinking,~ what makes a great car shop with people and exciting racing? I wouldn't necessarily think of the fashion as much potentially. then, yes, sometimes you just kind of like you're half. Like one example was There's a section of Goodwood, of the revival called the March Motor Works. They might have changed names since then, but I'd get sent to go and photograph this area. And I'd float past and if nothing was going on, nothing interesting, I'm like, okay, well, I'll come back later. And then, I knew it was on my briefs, I'd keep coming back to the same place. And then the light was great and I've noticed a couple of cool people. thought, okay, well, I'll float around here for a minute and then I'll see what visual things come about. I've got some of my favourite photographs from that moment, just the way this harsh light was just lighting up the front of this car, complete darkness behind these people. And as they walked to the front of the car to have a look at the front of the car in great outfits, all this harsh light, harsh shadows, had lovely hats and it all just worked beautifully. I oh, I wouldn't have got that because I wouldn't necessarily have been hanging around there. I just would have possibly walked past it because it wasn't, Yeah. it was nice enough, but it wasn't interesting enough. wasn't, there was nothing going on. It was just some parked cars looking quite nice. So. Yeah, it forces me to look a lot more, but I'm definitely tired. I don't know if you feel the same. After a day of shooting and really looking for photographs, my visual part of my brain is like, I'm really sleepy now just from being on it all the time. But it's quite nice because then you kind of like, you even walk back to the car park and your brain's still on, even though your cameras are on, you're like, ooh, isn't that a nice shot of someone falling over in the mud? Whatever it might be. So yeah, Yes. it makes up the rest of the world. interesting to look at. Yeah, and you've got that responsibility to your client as well. So you're always sort of thinking, what will they want? What will the other client want? Yes. And, they're going to love that one. And then you see something else. that will really please these people. Just trying to be a people pleaser. Yeah, but this is the thing, especially what you've just said as well. I can't cross over the briefs in my kind of creative mind. Mm. So like one year I was working for Goodwood, Pirelli and Porsche, I think, and there was probably someone else I working for. But of these four people, I had to break it down in my kind of schedule, in my own actual calendar. I scheduled like hours basically, what I'm going to do. And I will, I can't even describe, I almost actually physically switch. brain, I switch my brain to think, okay, now I'm thinking for Pirelli, I'm thinking about those artistic shots, or I'm thinking of a Porsche, My brain will look for Porsche's look for, you know, the people around the Porsche standard, like it'll all kind of like, mentally fall into place. And I can't often, sometimes you'll notice something that would work for the other one, but it doesn't, it I don't know, it I do try to think a little bit differently. So um, yeah, it's, quite difficult to cross over those when there's there's more than one client. So I do have to really split up, but also helps from an actual no workflow point of view because it's not like I'm just floating around taking pictures that I like and then I'll try and get rid of pictures afterwards. I'm like, okay, no, I've actually got to make sure I've covered everybody that's paying me to be here. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, be focused. ~ We tend to think of automotive photography as a traditionally male area. Is that still true, do you think? Or are there more women getting involved now? Definitely more with a lot more women involved now, which is awesome. From a photography point of view, it's still more as a whole, women in the industry definitely up. you as a photography, it's still not low as I'd probably say it was kind of, if I look, if I think about a Goodwood Revival, for example, there's probably seven blokes to three women, I would say roughly on average of who's working there, just because I think the, what interests you and how you get into the automotive world.~ The same in the motorbike world. There's more women in the motorbike world, I think. But again, from a business point of view, interesting. I don't know. There's a lot of women that work obviously in the industry as a whole. So I work with a lot of women who are in the PR marketing, of course. ~ But as photographers, Mm-hmm. there's more. A lot of content creators are women as well. But again, the thing is, I'm wondering if I'm seeing a biased view of it because I follow the... the women who ride bikes and drive cars because I also with the events I get hired to shoot, I'm often hired, and this is probably something interesting to talk about, I'm often hired for the female focused things like International Women's Day or the ladies lunch. And I sometimes think to myself, am I being hired because I'm really good at the job that I do or am I being hired as their kind of token female photographer that can go and photograph these events? Why am not being hired for maybe that kind of job over in America that you've got three blokes there for and no women? And so that kind of... Mm-hmm. frustrates me because I'm still being hired at the end of the day, but I do think there's still a definite imbalance. And I don't know if that is just because there are less women in it, or if it's still, if you were to do a very, think it's nobody being honest enough to answer the question of if you have the choice of a man or a woman to hire, which one would you hire? Because statistically, looks like more blokes get hired for these things than women. But I think that's the case in every industry. If you talk about, you break down the statistics, it does seem to be that, you know, they're pay inequality and just the amount that freelancers get hired, I still think there's an imbalance and women are not trusted as much, which is a shame. yeah, but what's quite nice is this week I've just been, I can't say at the minute what it is, but I've just been awarded a massive job where myself and the director, so there's gonna be a video and there's gonna be photography, we're both women, which I'm like, and this is for a huge client as well. So I'm like, cool, this is exciting. wow. So, yeah, but also I think that it also depends on what the client needs to be photographed. So if you want something emotive and storytelling, again, I suppose this is me being the opposite round saying women are better at We're not necessarily better at it, but I think we're perceived to be better at it. And sometimes we are because I feel like we can sometimes understand emotional storytelling more. or well, we understand it well. Whereas when it comes down to kind of aggressive car photography, I know I'm not good at that, but that's just me, but that's because I don't like it. I like the romantic storytelling, adventure romance and classic cars. I don't want to get the super low edgy, high contrast, high vivity, is that the word? Mm-hmm. Like kind of new Lamborghini shots or something like that. It's just not me. So ~ yeah, I think I could argue both sides in my head and out loud. for a while. overall, do think the automotive industry has definitely gone up in the balance of males to females in every aspect. yeah, it's really nice to see. Yeah, that is good news. I guess that's where it becomes important to develop a style like yours, which is recognizable. So then people, they want you for that look. I mean, in you don't have the convenience of a gender neutral name, but if you did, people might just pick you for that. So you can never say for certain, but as perhaps more women get interested in automotive events, then maybe they will think, well, actually we need more of this style of image because that appeals to more women. Yes, and also I think especially, I don't know, this is probably something you might end up talking about, or asking me about anyway, but the kind of rise of AI photography and stuff as well. In my head, or maybe this is me just kind of wishful thinking, I think people will want to see more honesty and more kind of realism. It's not even about AI, I was reading about...~ Some reviews about Wuthering Heights, think it was, and people saying that the actors that are picked now are too beautiful, they're too perfect. Mm-hmm. They are, cannot relate to them. not what I see in the mirror with my friends, with my family. Just generally too chiseled, teeth too white, too for the era that they're trying to portray, whatever it might be. They say people have got an iPhone face where if you look like you, that face is seeing an iPhone. if you're working in a period drama, you should be able to have a a non iPhone face, so you're more believable.⁓ But The whole idea with photography, Yeah. from my point being more real, more honest, more it's not being created by AI. And I think I'm hoping, this is my touch-wood wishful thinking, that that's going to be something that people value more because that's what I love personally, not even thinking about from a business point of view, but my personal interest is that honesty. And I think that's what I love about, you know, kind of older photographers, with a shot in film, you know there's very little kind of like messing around those photos and I love the fact that these photos cannot lie. And somebody asked me the other day, you know, about AI and what you know, AI art is amazing. Okay, yeah, it is. And I think if I know if it's being obviously AI, it's obviously pretend and I'm cool, like the more kind of creative it is, I love it more. I don't want it to do something that I feel should be honest and I don't want to feel like I'm being deceived or lied to, even though they might be open about it. you know, when you see a picture, you think that's cool. And you look a little more and go, actually, I think you're AI. And it's almost like a disappointment. Yeah. Yeah. Even if you still think the image is cool, you're disappointed. Or at least I feel disappointed. Maybe it's a generational thing. But I think the move towards having more honest photography, more honest art, more honest people, I'm hoping will become more defined as over the next few years, Mm-hmm. whether it stays that way or not, I don't know. But that could be a whole other conversation, I guess. Yeah, I think you're right about the honesty. I had to break it to my partner that the video he'd seen of a baby polar bear hugging its fishermen saviours who'd just, you know, put it off, taking it off a tiny little iceberg was AI. And he visibly deflated because he wanted to believe in this heartwarming story.~ yeah. And it was just, it was just AI. And I think, excuse me, I think that's how we feel about photography as well. You want that kind of, you want some real connection. And ultimately, we want to connect with people or places through photography. And if it's just AI, then you can't form that connection because you can't believe in what you're seeing. Yes, and I think that is a case if we boil it down to, I'm hoping that there is or will be some scientific studies about the way the brain does this, but if you boil it down to art and the human connection of art, of music, of dance, of creativity, we think of cave drawings and we feel a connection of sort to those people that Mm. that art. I make art, they made art, it's something very innate about it. Yeah. And I think if you have a connection of like, oh, this computer made art and it's great, but I have no, it's not, I think that art and creativity has to, it sounds all very fluffy, it has to come from the heart to an extent, it has to come from experience, people, artists make things from, you know, what they felt, what they experience, how they view the world, what they, how they, they music, you know, what things come to them when they feel something. I suppose the same with my photography as well. The things I photograph, I want people who view my images to feel what I feel. And that sounds very kind of fluffy, I genuinely do. if my joy in the job and in the event and in the person I'm talking to is there, that I do genuinely think that comes across in my My effort is there. My desire to try and get that kind of captured Mm. is very much there. And to have that and somebody else to see that and go, I share that, I get it. But to not have the other side and just being very like, somebody created this. And I suppose you could argue that AI created it because somebody prompted them to feel like this. And I can see that being the argument. But to me, it doesn't feel the same yet. And again, I don't know if it's a generational thing, whereas maybe my son, my grandchildren, great grandchildren, may not even cross their mind. Yep. At the moment, the life I'm living in that is a problem. And I think I value the art made from humans and by humans, Mm-hmm. I'm about to argue with myself again, you can argue that using a camera is not made by humans. Ha So it's a digital thing. So could we argue that actually that it's just Mm. as bad as AI? Sorry. Well, yes, I mean, but there's basic use of physics in there that ultimately it comes down to the aperture size and the shutter speed, doesn't it? And yet you've got the sensor and how the camera is set up to reproduce color in the same way you did with film. So I think it still counts. Yes. Yeah, I'm gonna go with that. think it still counts. Good. If people can use paint brushes, then I can use a camera and it's, Absolutely, absolutely. So on the subject of forming connections and art from people, I think it's a good time to go to six from SheClicks. And I have got lots of really great questions from SheClickers and I've 10 for you to pick six from to answer. Okay. So if you can pick numbers from one to 10, let's have your first question, please. First number, I should say. first of all, let's go with seven.⁓ Number seven, do you see a growing number of women entering the field and what is the one thing you wish someone had told you when you first started out in automotive photography? That's from Caroline. Oh, great question, Caroline. Yeah, I said they were good no, they are. Yes, so the growing number of women in the field, as we've already kind of mentioned, yet definitely happening and which is lovely to see. people are women are now definitely feeling like they don't have to like I know when I started, I felt like I had to really justify why I was there. And it's still to an extent feel like I have to do that now. Mm-hmm. I must feel like you you need to kind of like when somebody goes, Oh, what do you do? And I go, I'm a car photographer. And they go, Oh, is that your only job? And I go, Yeah. And then I have to like list off my CV basically to show Yeah. you know, why I'm Yeah. valid at doing the job. So if there's something, you know, one bit of information or advice to give people starting out, it really would be kind of like trusting yourself and your own process of way of doing things. As I said, when I first started, I don't think, when I first started photography, Instagram was right at very beginning of people using it en masse. So I had never seen people photograph cars the way that I photographed. cars, bar a couple of people that inspired me to photograph cars the I do. And I suppose my visual kind of inspiration came from weddings and Mm-hmm. I just slipped into being cars. So yeah, the, think if I had tried to shoot how I felt I was meant to shoot I wouldn't have done as well as I have in the career because I wouldn't have done it very well. There are people who do that very, very well the way it should be done. And, you know, big commercial stuff, there's some incredible photographers that do things, you know, the really exciting dynamic stuff. And I would have only ever done a half decent job of that style. So by sticking to your style and the thing that you think, okay, I really like to shoot this way, there are always going to be people that think, you know what, we want to hire Catherine⁓ for for reason. Is it Catherine or Caroline? I'm so sorry. was Caroline. Caroline, sorry, my apologies, Caroline. So yeah, think like with, for example, there's a photographer that I really love called Joshua Paul, Josh Paul, and he photographs Formula One on a camera that's 120 years old. it's, you you'd think there's a fantastic kind of image of him in a group of photographers. All these are the photographers have got, you know, the massive long 300mm lenses on, and he stood there with this big stretchy concertinaed camera in the middle of it all. And you think to yourself, well, If he was standing there thinking, I'm doing it wrong, obviously, because everybody else is doing this other way, Yeah. he would kind of, you know, if he didn't kind of get over that himself and go, you know, I like what I produce. Mm. And now he is one of my favourite automotive photographers because of the stuff that he produces. I'm not interested in Formula One photography at To an extent. Doesn't particularly interest me. His stuff, I think, is artistic and beautiful and different and really stands So yeah, the tip I would say is to kind of find your style that you love and really stick to it. And even if it feels like you're doing it wrong, because you won't be doing it wrong. It's art. There's no right or wrong about it. That's probably what I would say. Yeah, and it's your photography. Yes, exactly. Okay. Okay, can I have your second number, please? I'm going to go with one, please. Number one, okay actually incredibly, this is from Caroline as well.⁓ When When covering long distance events like the Great Mall Rally, Okay.⁓ what practical advice do you have for female photographers regarding safety and logistics when traveling solo or in remote high intensity environments? Really interesting question. Great questions Caroline. I remember the first time I got asked to photograph a job in another country and it was in Italy and I've on email been conversing with two blokes and then I realized at the point I was on the airplane that I was about to land in another country with maybe I think I've got, you know SIM coverage and mobile coverage to meet two strange men I've met on the internet and I just thought what the hell am I doing here? I'm sure it'll be fine. Anyway, of course it was fine and now that is the majority of what my job is. And I, there's definitely still got to be wary, absolutely. But when I'm things like Great Mali Rally, usually there's, I don't think I've ever touch wood being in any dodgy situation where I thought, feel unsafe here. Because I've, especially with, you know, you've got camera equipment on you, there's not, I'm very aware of, you know, getting robbed, getting attacked, stuff like that. We're depending on where I am. If I'm standing on the side of the road on a beautiful Scottish road, the likelihood of of me being in bit of trouble, probably pretty low. Obviously not completely gone, but pretty low. If I'm in the middle of a city and I think, I'm my bag on me all the time. And, you know, see on some of the forums of people getting their bags nicked, you're just in a coffee shop and they've not even realised it's gone underneath them. I just think, oh my God, my heart goes out to them. So I am super wary of that side of things. Hmm. The, no, in terms of the job and kind of safety, other people and the kind of fear of getting robbed or hurt on a job doesn't worry me too much because I don't think I don't it's just you're you know if you feel safe or unsafe. The other kind of more dangerous logistic is the hanging out of back of cars and going backwards on motorcycles and stuff like that so there are definitely things in place to try and stop people falling out of cars like harnesses and seatbelts and make sure you've got a driver that isn't going to boot the throttle the second you need to start taking photographs because that be the point I fall out. But that's probably the most realistic kind of like scary thing. The only other kind of bit I've ever felt a bit uncomfortable was I borrow a lot of cars in the job that I do. I had to borrow an electric car for a bit and it was this about six years ago and I had to go and like, I was about to say fill up, know, charge up at the station. and the first one I wouldn't take it, the second one couldn't, you know, there was no space, it was broken. The third one, the only point was at the back of a petrol station with like one overhead light. And I've just sat in the car because that's all I can do. You plug in, I've got all my camera gear with me after a shoot and sat opposite me like a load of blokes in big white vans, kind of like staring, of, you know, leaning out, you're right love. And I just thought, I am a sitting duck here. And then after that I gave this car back because I I do not feel safe. So, No, in terms of kind of going across the world to meet other people and strangers, obviously, I always try to make sure that I've got, I my location with my, with my husband, with my mom and dad still, even though I'm a 35 year old woman. And I would usually try and make sure I've had, do a bit of a research about them before. And I don't think I just, I don't think I'd ever go into a place where if I had to meet somebody on their own, for example, it never be in a remote place or It could be at their house because I do get asked to do that a lot as well. usually, again, it's like last year I got asked to shoot somebody's little event they had. I'd never met this person. I think I briefly met this person once, but I couldn't remember them. And they're you can stay at my house. I thought, feels uncomfortable here. Mm. Mm. But, you know, I knew we've got kids that were kind of in their early 20s and we had a bit of chat and you sounded friendly. And I thought, I'll go. And if I get any weird vibes. it's a no, I'm gonna be like, oh, I've had a bit of an emergency, I've got to go or whatever it might be. Anyway, got there, delightful person, know, hung out with the kids, all fine. But it still, it's in the back of your mind, but I suppose no different in a way that if you were to, I don't know, at any shoot where you had to work with somebody, that you'd feel a bit uncomfortable. So I think as long as you're of, you're switched on, and you're not gonna do anything kind of that would make you feel uncomfortable, you've got to get out, always have a get out. Yeah. Yeah. Which I think as women especially, we always have that in the back of our mind anyway. It's not like it's something I think about every job I do. There's my get out. just kind of, it's always in the back of your mind. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, you just don't be daft more than anything, I think. Yeah, I think we're all used to doing things like, you it's dark, you're walking across the car park to your car. You've already got your keys out and you've probably got your key like that Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, in your thumb. So, know, sticking out so you can if somebody does come I thought... up and you get in the car and you lock it, that kind of thing. ~ Yes, ⁓ Things like that. Yeah. like much more recent one. I did a shoot literally two weeks ago at an event in London called Tobacco Dock. Really gorgeous, gorgeous event. But I have to walk from Tobacco Dock to my Airbnb. It's only like a 10 minute walk or to the tube station, which is also about a 10 minute walk, as it was previous years. The area that it's in can be a bit dodgy or can definitely feel dodgy. And you get a lot of people hanging around Mm. the streets and I've got all my camera gear on me. probably the only time I really put a strap on me and often I will have my like my headphones in or a headphone in but on noise cancel so noise transparency so I can still hear everything around me ⁓ and I'll Yeah. be on the phone to somebody so I have phoned my husband or my mum just to have somebody on the phone with me so I can just if anything were to happen there's somebody that I that already knows something's going wrong and they know exactly where I am because my location but you get my live location ⁓ they know where I'm going where I'm coming from And I think in that situation for me to do the job, there's not really much more I can do than that. don't carry around any like pepper spray. I pepper spray is actually illegal in the UK. But like, know, I go ⁓ like an alarm or anything like that. think so, yeah. don't I don't carry anything like that with me.~ So it really is just that my my personal trainer told me how to really punch somebody to hurt them. So I feel I've got a bit more of information of he turned to me once he was like, you walk around your little village with your headphones in. I'm like, yeah, don't walk the dog.⁓ It's really little English village, I don't know, I feel totally safe and he comes from a bit of rough background I think sometimes. He said, no, no, you need to be ready to punch them in the throat.~ my god! I know that's I thought was a there you are lady, In the throat, wow. if you're thinking about you need to protect yourself, that's the aim you've got to give. No, Okay, wow, yeah. Probably doesn't hurt your hand as much as a nose, I suppose, Ooh, no, exactly, I don't know, I've never punched somebody before, hoping I don't need to. I'm not gonna try it. you Okay, so can I have your third number, please? Okay, let's go with two. Has your relationship with photography changed over time or does it still feel the same thing that first hooked you? That question's from Anne. Oh, Anne, good question. There's definitely been Mmm. a wave over the time, I think. So in the past, I loved, loved, loved, loved it. And then I went through a phase of probably around kind of 2018, 2019 of going, oh my God, I'm overwhelmed all the time. This is too much. It's absolutely become a job. I didn't hate it, but I really wasn't enjoying it. And just, felt like every time I had a job that came along, go, oh. I've got to go to work. I felt that for the first time in my life. And even though I'd be doing the most amazing jobs, think this is great fun. Why the hell am I not looking forward to it? And then COVID hit and all of our jobs stopped. And I just thought, ooh, could do with some of those jobs to pay my bills. Yeah. And so initially I was doing anything just because we needed to do anything. And I enjoyed it again for a little bit. then it was, but it never really came back. And the thing that brought back probably the joy for the job was having my son just a year and a half ago. I still love photography. It was much better than that kind of 2018 2019 kind Mm. of period of time. But now the fact that so many people kind of said to me, oh, are you going to go back to work? I was like, yes, of course I am. This is my career and I've worked really hard to get to the place I am. And I love my job. I do love it. so now I will like... you know, when he goes to nursery and have to go and do a job, I get to go and do the thing that, you know, I'm not mummy in that situation. Mm. I'm Amy Shore the photographer. I'm not Amy Haynes, the mummy that's married and got a family.⁓ am this photographer that's been doing the job for many years.⁓ And I feel like I've come back to the sense of being me again. And that's on the, you know, on a Wednesday and then Thursday, I'm back to being Mrs. Amy Haynes that's got, you know, going off to swimming lessons and ⁓ going to the⁓ play dates and all that and ⁓ it ⁓ made my ⁓ home-work balance of enjoyment so much more so I enjoy being home more as well as enjoy working more so having my son is definitely on the whole elevated my joy of both work at work and home I mean sometimes days with both but ~ yeah so it's~ yeah generally it's made me really enjoy both a lot more Okay. Could I have your fourth number please? Let's go with nine. Has anyone ever tried to discourage you from photographing cars? That question is from Marie-Ange. Oh, that's a good one. These are all great questions. Not one I've been like, oh, that's a funny question. No, these are fantastic. Did anyone discouraged me? No, don't think they have actually. My parents have been superb. I suppose if anybody that would discourage you, your parents are probably the first people that might put you off. Because from just my pure care point of view, Yeah. like I know that if my son came to me and was like, hey, think I'm going to go and do, I don't know, photography or drama or I want to be an actor or something, something where I might naturally go, oh, that's a, you know, you might not be able to, that's quite difficult industry to try and get a break in. Mm. Um, I don't think I would discourage, but I would probably say, why don't we think about how we can do this alongside something else. So with photography, because I suppose I never stood at it as a, um, like at university, couldn't complete self-taught. And again, having my dad, who is an artistic person who is you know, surrounds themselves or has surrounded with himself with people who also are in artistic careers and can kind of show you that it is possible to be a ~ photographer, artist, whatever, and still make money. I've never been discouraged by the people closest to me. If anything, the pure opposite, complete, you know, my mom bless her would, I'd come home from a shoot, I'd be home really late and she'd, while I still living at home. she would have put a hot water bottle in my bed and she's put my pajamas out and I'm like, oh mummy. you know, that's me going, yeah, exactly, It's just what you need. going straight into like, thanks mom for being, you know, my kind of support there. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, no, I don't think I've ever actually been discouraged. I've definitely had people question my, the job that I do and as I said earlier, people say, people even now still say, oh, do you still do that? Do you do any other job to support you? Is it your full-time job? What does your husband do for work? Stuff like that. And I'm like, Yeah. oh, no, no, it's me. And what else do I get? Yeah. I sometimes get, are you doing that for university? But less so now I look older as well. I definitely got that earlier on. Yes, yes, yes, it's project. Yeah, it's just a project. It's a really hard industry to make money, isn't it? And I suppose the minute I mention my husband that I'm married for a start, think people automatically assume that... he's the moneymaker, I do this as kind of like the in-between bit. And the reality is the complete opposite way around. Mm-hmm. We are both self-employed and his business is still growing. I am the breadwinner of our family. I sometimes, again, I feel I have to justify that to some people, which I hate. don't know that's a me problem or if I overthink it. And if the person's asked me, there's no way of thinking like that at all. But I do sometimes feel that maybe the tone of voice or the amount of times I get asked it is kind of like, So no, nobody's ever discouraged me to do the job. Mm. Only ever encouraged me, say. So no, the other way around. Okay. That's good, that's great news.⁓ All right, so your fifth number, please? I'm gonna go for number five. Okay, in the early days, did you feel any pressure to say yes to every job just to prove yourself in the industry? And how did you learn to set boundaries only take on projects that aligned with visual style? Who's that from, that question? Believe it or not, that's from Caroline. Caroline. She did. She's she put in some really good questions ~ I would say it all depended on how busy my actual schedule has been. So for example, over winter, even now, I will probably say yes to everything that comes along because I know over winter a lot of things in the automated world slow down because nobody wants to their classic cars out into salt and there aren't as many events. So I do say yes to not everything but pretty much everything. I think there's only been... because the other thing, I am very lucky that people only ask me to do jobs that they think I'd be good at and I'd enjoy. So I don't get asked to do this stuff like somebody once asked me to do an evening event and I get asked that this be not even fairly often, Mm. maybe once a year I get asked to shoot an evening awards or something, an automotive awards or something like that. And I enjoy it, you I used to dress up, get a nice champagne and fed myself as well as taking pictures of everyone having a nice time. But then one year somebody was like, it was a client that asked me, that was the initial thing. It was only going to be for like three hours. I was like, yeah, don't worry, I can do that. And then the extension, the start time, the end time kind of extended a bit. And I was like, yeah, it's like five hours now, Yeah. but you know what? We've not worked together before. I'd like to be able to, you know, let me do it. Then it was like, can we have this, you know, bunch of images edited the same night? I'm like, Okay, that's extended. My fee hasn't changed. And then they were like, and finally, Yeah. we have everybody that comes on, go flash, backboard, lit, know, where everyone, know, bosh. And I just said, Yeah, no, not happening. no, I'm not doing it. And this was like two days before the event. So I left them iron dry. And I did feel guilty about that. obviously I never got hired by them again. But I just thought, I'm absolutely, you've pushed and pushed and pushed. And that's my boundary now. I'm not moving that. But no, in terms of kind of Yeah, what I shoot, there's not really, because again, I suppose I'm always shooting something. I'm pretty, pretty like steadfast to my boundary of how I photograph. And if anybody said to me, can you shoot this in this totally different style? I think I'd go, no, I don't think I can. You should probably hire that photographer that shoots in that style. I have done that quite a few times. I've said, ~ thanks so much for thinking of me for this job. Mm. I don't think I'm right for the job. Have you thought about these photographers? But again, thankfully, that's kind of few and far between. I've not had to say that too many times. sometimes people are like, I have, but I really want your style just somewhere in between. yeah, so it's, it's, not something that happens too often, I'm very glad to say. So yeah, but setting a boundaries, especially when you feel you need to, because otherwise it was, I can't even think of the last job I did that I didn't enjoy. So obviously, some jobs are less enjoyable than others. But even then, not not particularly unenjoyable, like I know in next week is next week. I've got a headshot shoot where I'm photographing three directors of a company who are in automotive company and it's just a portrait shoot and I'm going to go and it's nothing to do with cars and it probably won't be that interesting but I'll have a nice time chatting to these people and just kind of floating around and it won't be the most interesting job but I don't hate it if that makes sense. Yep. So yeah, not every job can be the best job in the world as in like I get to go on these road trips and have The most amazing like holidays basically and I get to photograph and be paid for They're the best ones. Sometimes you've got to have the stuff that's just, yeah, yeah, okay. As long as I don't hate it, Yeah. It's another strange hubo. I'll keep going. Yeah, exactly, yes. Okay, that's five questions, Okay, that's five. So yeah, the sixth question. isn't it? Okay, sixth question.~ let's go with four. This is good one. It's from Marie-Ange.⁓ How long did it take you to feel confident photographing cars and automotive events?~ I think I even lack in confidence now.⁓ What's funny is that, Do you? and I don't know if any other photographers listening or even yourself a similar way of thinking, but the way I've described people is I, so just to clear off any confusion, my married name now is Amy Haynes. My maiden name, my business name is Amy Shore. So Amy Haynes, the human, has very little self-confidence in kind of self-generally. Amy Shore, personality that's a photographer, load of confidence in her, I get behind a camera and I think crap I don't know how this is gonna go. I start taking pictures and I'm oh cool Amy Shore the brain knows how to do this and it's like I forget that I can Yeah. do the job sometimes and it's not until I get behind the camera and I actually start doing the job I'm like oh yeah my brain knows how to do this I can do this so it's kind of like almost like a two different personality side of things. I, Haynes, have full confidence in Amy Shore photography because she's done it loads. if somebody like this big, this massive job ⁓ that we've just been awarded,⁓ Amy Haynes is a bit nervous about that because I'm thinking, can I do it? There's a big worldwide client and I'm thinking, Mm. am I going to be able to live up to their expectations? I have faith in Amy Shore, the photographer is going to be able to get around behind the camera and be like,~ don't worry, this is fine. We got this. so ⁓ what I do. Yes, what I do exactly. There's a reason why I've the job for so long and I've so far, which would keep being hired. So, yeah, it's, it's definitely a two brain side of things. And, no, there's, there's not always a lot of confidence, but we just kind of have to, you fake it till you make it kind of thing. And even when you make it, you still fake it sometimes because you just have to have to keep it up. Yeah, Yeah, keep up the illusion. Have you always felt like that? exactly. Yeah, no, I think I have. And I think the because especially working in the kind of the automotive world and I suppose people or at least maybe early on people actually thinking can this can this girl you know do the job you know do we trust her Mm. to I think that's kind of always carried on in in me people may not have all thought that but you definitely early on kind of have that initial feeling and it has taken me years to kind of Mm-hmm. get through the idea of how do you know I can do that? Like look at my portfolio. There's certain things I know I can't do, Mm-hmm. but I think I deep down know if I can or can't do something. So as in part of the job. if somebody had said to me, know, a load of Photoshop work doing on this thing, I'm like, okay, I can do Photoshop. It would probably take me quite a lot of time to do what you want me to do and I might feel uncomfortable. fashioning up something out of thin air, but I could probably give that to an editor and they would be able to do something with it. And so I feel like I could like kind of lean on somebody else to help me out with that and I'd be okay in the end, I think. So yeah, but I've always felt a little bit lacking in confidence, I suppose it gets less as I get older. Maybe that's the age point of view or from the experience point of view. Yeah, I hope so. I think sometimes when people are starting out, they don't know what they don't know. So they can go in with all sorts of confidence, Yeah. not realizing they haven't got a scooby, how it's going to go, what's going to happen. Yeah. Put the camera to auto and off they go and they wing it. And then gradually they find out, actually, I need to take some control of this and get better that way. And then they start to perhaps second guess everything and worry a bit. Yes, but also I find sometimes the opposite when people have gone into, like I've met a couple of photographers in real life, male photographers, I know that makes any difference, maybe I'm being sexist there myself, but they were, and I'm like, you have far too much confidence that the work you produce is good and you are famous because of your work, but if I really break it down, it's not that great. Like I'm probably maybe a bit too mean, but like as a photographer that myself and a friend of mine have been working with and... We've been asked to photograph in a bit similar style to this other photographer and I was a real, and I suppose I am still a fan of this other photographer's work and I think their work is beautiful but then I kind of like unpicked it I thought you know what there's actually nothing special about that the reason why this person's worked as well is because of this reason and this reason and that's not them that's doing that that's just the situation that they are in if that makes sense and It doesn't take away this, the outcome is still brilliant, but it's made me realize that sometimes we can put people on a pedestal in our brain and that's where you think, no, I could do just that. that's, that's not a problem. That's like, I can do that too. And I think that's a lot of things where I'd like, especially women who think that they, you know, the automotive industry for start, you know, the amount of things I have to remind myself from like, Oh no, wait, I can do that too. Why can't I do that? You see it, you see it on social media, on like TikTok or where people are like women have their own houses and there's like plumbing and it's like, well. I can do that. Like, I'll just YouTube it and see what... There's a lot of... Well, I think we just have to realise that, wait, no, I can do that too. And you just have to go and do it basically and you can remind yourself that you can. yeah. Absolutely, Well, Amy, I think that's a great point to finish. Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It's been brilliant hearing from you. Thank you so much for having me on. really enjoyed it. And those questions were all really brilliant. So thank you, everyone who gave those questions. They were great, weren't they? Thank you. Okay. Bye bye. Thank you. Bye. Thanks for joining me for this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Amy's website and social media channels in the show notes.⁓ I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube if you search for checlicksnet. So until next time, enjoy your photography.