I just don't think too much about things, and I am just always optimistic, so famous not right, but for me I always find a good outcome. Hello and welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I speak to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are now. Today I'm joined by pet, wildlife and creative nature photographer, and also active SheClicker, Philippa Huber. Based in Wiltshire, Philippa combines her love of animals, nature and creativity with a photography business built around outdoor pet sessions ⁓ and expressive nature photography. Hi Philippa, or Phil, as I know you best.⁓ Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It's really great to have the opportunity to catch up with you. It is real a real pleasure to be here. Thank you for the invitation. You're very welcome. ⁓ Now I was thinking, with the exception of my mum, you are the SheClicker that I have known the longest time. And actually there's only about five years in it. So ~ there's not much to to to play for there. Ha ha. But it's really funny because I realised that it wasn't until I started SheClicks in 2018 that I discovered you were also into photography. So perhaps you can tell us a little bit about ~ how you first discovered photography? Yeah, I so I've been doing photography a long time.⁓ Seventeen years old on a campsite in France, I realised a Konica Minolta Pop was not enough to photograph the swirls of smoke that I wanted to. and so I asked for a camera for my, a proper camera, for my eighteenth birthday and was given a portable TV to take away to university instead.⁓ And then Didn't get my own camera for four years, but as soon as I moved to France I bought a second hand Minolta ⁓ SLR ⁓ and started photographing then, learnt about dark rooms and developing and yeah, been doing it ever since. When you were in France and you're learning about dark rooms and developing and making your own prints, did you have any thoughts about becoming a professional photographer or was it purely for fun at that point? I always ⁓ wanted to be a photographer. It's really funny because thinking back, whenever I met anybody creative ⁓ or interested in photography, that's what I'd say I wanted to do. But I was also having the time of my life living in France and then I moved to Turkey and travelled around the world. So I was nev... ⁓ it was a lovely idea, but I never wanted to actually stop doing what I was doing. So the dream was there, but it wasn't a strong enough dream for me to sort of give it up and move back to the UK and⁓ do it the traditional way. And whenever I spoke to photographers, that's what they said was, you need to go back and sort of work under somebody and and learn that way. And I always thought,⁓ I don't I don't want to live in the UK. Yeah. Yeah. So I've carried on doing what I was born and had that as my sort of full time hobby really. So when did photography switch from being a hobby to something you built your life around? I started earning money from photography when we moved back to the UK. So my husband and I moved back in 2019.~ we bought a narrow boat ⁓ and travelled around the country for the first two and a half, three years. And then all I was doing, I realise now, was just learning inside out how my camera works and how to photograph sort of on the fly and particularly wildlife. And then about probably about three years ago, I think we ended up in Wiltshire, maybe four years. And I would go off walking for days. Well, I've come back to the boat at night, but I'd go off for massive walks with my camera and then took loads of photos, was editing them, not doing anything with them, and one day just sort of thought, there are markets around here, I'm gonna go and sell my photos at a market. So I got some printed and I've always liked I've loved printed works. I've always loved quality photography or quality art and fine art papers and stuff. So when I s right from the very beginning I was using really good quality, you know, prints and print companies. And it's yeah, that was the start of it. And ~ it's sort of taken off. But now you do more pet photography. So how did that come along? do. ~ because I was selling wildlife prints and I was it was all sort of wildlife and canal scenes, obviously what was around me. So that was my sort of USP and in Wiltshire, which is where I'm mostly based now, you know, it's very rural, so there's a nice sort of audience for my work anyway. And it was as simple as one day a guy said, well if you can photograph wildlife, you must be able to photograph my dog that wasn't trained. And I sort of went, 'yeah, of course I can do that'. And he booked me to photograph his his wife's dog. And I was really nervous and I went to the location that we'd agreed multiple times, and it was going to be for the bluebells. And so there was all the paths there, and everything was sorted. And I hadn't counted on it being a sausage dog. So the dog was shorter than the bluebells. So again, strangely it was that whole Think on your feet. You can't sort of act to this woman like, I don't know what I'm doing. I had to make sure that there were some some good Yeah. photos. And I got some amazing photos that are still some, you know, really popular that I show to clients. And they are great examples of a dog that never stopped moving, but looks completely, you know, posed and perfect for the camera. I've got a friend with a sausage dog and they are they are great dogs to photograph actually. ~ They're hilarious. Yes, yeah. But they're very short. They are. Yes, no taller than you than bluebells, as you say. So h how has how has your business evolved over the years then? Well didn't so it started off I was doing markets and I do craft fairs,~ and it was wildlife photography. And now I still do I do a regular market two days a week in the shambles in and there I've got ~ regulars that know me and they get commissions and things like that. There's a few tourists that come through, and then I do sometimes I do sort of special pet stroke dog events where people are there just because they love dogs or they've got dogs and They're probably looking for a photographer. and I also I sort of evolved from I still sell prints, but I also make bags and mugs and slates are very popular at the moment. And those sort of things I can print in my own workshop here. So and then the the pet photography is the bigger part of the business now. And and I love that because every shoot's different, and my style is let's go with what the dog wants to do and I'll go with the flow. And they so they'll get sort of the natural photos as well as at some point the dog stops, pauses, and goes, Hello. And I'll get you know, I'll get a beautiful photo of the dog, but I'll also get the whole the silliness and you know the character of that dog. And then we I don't just give them Digi copies, it's all about a beautiful print or a big thing with lots of different pictures of the dog with their walls as well afterwards. And that is a big part of it for me. I love it. Yeah. So w how how do you select the images or how do they select the images t to print? So I after the shoot I go back, download them, save them, and then do an initial cull and then I edit a certain amount and I do I'll always give them two or three of a very similar shot because what I found very quickly was my favourite was probably not going to be their favourite. And it's again, you know, I spend an hour, hour and a half with their pet, so I think that's really cute, but they know that the dog does that and that's the dog. So ~ they come to my studio generally and I've have it prepared as a slideshow. So the first viewing is just a random slideshow. And because they've been involved in the shoot, then they relive the moments and you know, sort of what happened for me to get the shots. So and that's really, really lovely. And then we look through them chronologically and they then start sort of saying yes or no to the photos. most people don't want just one photo. So the multi aperture frames are lovely. And I always do a selection of sort of starting from twenty by sixteen up to thirty by twenty-four with a few photos or a lot. And they may not really have a concrete idea, but when they see my ideas, it allows them to start picturing what they would like. And then we work it together. Sounds sounds like a really pleasant experience actually, I bet. I mean people Yeah Yeah. look it and they they love it. I mean I've got a dog, we love our dog and you know, Yes. there's nothing better than looking at photos of your dog so or photographing your dog. Yeah. Yeah.~ that sounds really nice. so although the photography the sorry, the pet photography is a huge part of your business now, do you plan to continue with the markets? Yes. And I'm not even hesitating with that. That's a definite yes because it's kind of it's my shop front really. I've got a workshop here in Devises where I meet my clients after the shoot, but most of them meet me face to face. And it's interesting how a lot of my clients don't realise they want their dog photographed until they see my photos, we have a chat and then they think, actually, that would be really good. So the markets will continue because it's a good, it's a storefront, it's a face to face meeting and I still I sell my wildlife work on the side and I do like creative abstract seascapes and nature as well, but I sometimes put those out just as a little sort of mix. But yeah, the markets are important. In addition to the contacts that you've made, what have you learned through being at the market and selecting the products that you are gonna sell?~ that it's not all about me. I found very quickly. Okay. I used and I still do, I used to, my style was I like shooting through, which I still like doing, but I was always really drawn to sort of darker backgrounds with just a little bit of light.⁓ And when people like those, Mm-hmm. that style, they they love them, they want to buy them, it's brilliant. But the majority of people that I meet in the market want something that's much sort of lighter and brighter, possibly cuter.~ so I I do know now when I'm shooting with a thought to what might sell at a market, there's a very distinct gap between what I absolutely love myself and want on my wall, but what I know is going to be commercially more sort of suitable to get printed for for sale. That's really interesting. So if you're photographing something, do you now sort of take one for you and one for the market? Sometimes yes. So I also I take a lot less photos than I used to, which ~ and I know when I used to send in questions to the podcast,~ or when you did webinars and we could ask questions, I was always fascinated by how many photos these photographers would take.~ and I used to take so many, but then I'd have loads of time to do the editing on them and just play around with them. Yeah. And I don't have that time anymore. So I have to be a lot more kind of thoughtful about when I'm photographing and what I'm photographing. So I do if I'm photographing, if I see something that I know is gonna be nice and commercial, I'll just photograph it in that style. And then I do now I try and go out just for me and my camera sometimes without the thought of would that sell or would it not sell? It's just I like going out and just photographing for myself. And if something comes with it that I'll do sort of in my creative side. then so be it, but I try to just sort of find the the fun in it again sometimes. Do you think 'cause you you only relatively recently switched from an SLR to mirrorless. Do you think shooting on a mirrorless camera Yeah. has helped you with the sort of creative side, but also sort of reducing the number of shots so that you've got th you you've got more so your hit rate is higher basically? I don't I actually don't know. with the pet photography, that's why I switched. Hmm. And it's been just such a game changer for that with I use a Nikon Z8,~ and the eye focus and the speed of the two lenses that I use mostly, that's been a massive game changer. I wouldn't say I take less shots just because I'll do more of a burst mode when a dog's running towards me. So but now I can sort of speed up the selection process by knowing that that's going to be a good one. I don't need to edit five just to choose one later.~ so I don't know. It's nice being able to see more or less what it's going to look like afterwards with the mirrorless, you know, rather than I use a D750 before. And I still take it out and it still kind of catches me out that, you know, it isn't what I'm seeing exactly. But that sometimes is quite in my surprise. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I I last used an SLR about a year ago and I must admit I was thinking w where's the eye detection? That comes as a bit of a shock. Yeah, yeah, yeah. yes, I remember now. I I photographed a sort of Dalmatian cross last week and eye detection Mm-hmm. on that was ~ that's quite interesting. Then you need to know quickly how to override the cameras eye detection. Yes. Can I imagine? Yes, it probably thought it had lots and lots of eyes, I should think. Now you you've mentioned that you love printing. What is it you think about holding a a a piece of fine art or a printed image that Yeah. is so special? So I th thinking back, ~ I grew up in a house where they always, you know, if we went on holiday, they'd buy something and it was generally something for the wall. Mm-hmm. So I think I grew up in a house where mum and dad would just buy lots of things.~ I didn't grow up particularly with photos on the wall, but they they liked art and there were sort of books on the shelves about the pre Raphaelites and do you remember Kenneth Clark's Civilization book? So I don't know, it just gave me a bit of an idea of sort of Yeah. Yeah. painting and print. So when I had the opportunity to start printing, having things printed for me, I just leapt right in. And I remember during lockdown, we had to we had a house at the time. So by law we had to go live back in the house. And that's when I used to do the She Click's Thursday coffee mornings. And I ~ turned a little bedroom into my workshop or whatever you call it there, my little studio. And I just started printing and then I would get some more printing. And it got it did get kind of out of control because we weren't really living in the house, but I just remember the trying out different fine art papers Yeah. and seeing the different textures and how they would affect the thing. And that was mainly I'd photographed the Dalmatian pelicans in that January. And so I'd got some sort of quite stark photos and then I'd got some ICM and slow shutter of them sort of coming into land or flying next to me. And I just liked being able to get them printed on different paper and putting them on my wall for a little while. And it's gone on from there really. Yeah. Do you do your own printing or do you use a lab? I use a lab, yeah. And I use I use One Vision. I just they were the first lab that I used. And for me, when things go well, why sort of change them? And they've always been absolutely amazing. And my fine art paper is PermaJet. And again, they've got such an amazing range. And if I've ever had any questions between PermaJet and OneVision, they've just always had the time to sort of offer advice and and help and the rare I think once I got a fine art print done and it was this landscape, beautiful seascape over at the Isle of Man and it came and I think a hair or something must have been on the paper. It was just this tiny little flaw and they, you know, they replaced it immediately without hesitation. So when that happens, it's kind of yeah they they're not quibbling with anything and the quality's ⁓ there. Yeah. That's good to know. Sho when you're looking at your pictures, what makes you pick one to print over another? What are you looking for?~ if I could print two, I'd probably print two to be honest and just keep them a call. ⁓ It's hard. For me,⁓ it's really quite if I just really like the picture. I went to Norway last January, Yeah.~ and they're not even on my wall, but again, it was just I got one and it's it was all very blue and these mountains with snow and this sort of grey ship coming in. And I got that printed on some PermaJet⁓ metallic paper just Because I wanted to see what it was like.~ and that's just in a folder in my workshop now and every so often I pull it out because I don't really have space on my walls. So I'm not very I don't need a reason to get something printed. If I like a a photo, I generally will sort of get it printed just to to see what it looks like. That's a rubbish answer sorry about that. Okay. It's an honest answer,⁓ let's say it's an honest answer. So I don't think y you're not much of a planner, are you? When you you you know, when you sort of find something is interesting you go with the flow, when it's working you continue with that flow. Yeah. But what advice would you give to other women who are interested in photography and thinking about maybe taking things th further but have concerns that they're not good enough? You don't know until you try, which is you know, the biggest advice I think I could give anybody. It and it's a cliche that everybody says your regrets are for what you don't do rather than what you do do. So you can try it and you might realise you don't like speaking to the public. So but you've tried it at least, and they won't remember that you didn't like speaking to them. Mm-hmm. They'll just sort of probably think you're absolutely fine and it was a quite a nice play. And once you've done, especially with sort of the markets and the craft fairs, people are generally they're welcoming and and friendly. In my experience, there's not a great deal of photographers doing it. I would say ⁓ make a nice display. But yeah, my main thing would be just if you don't try, you don't know. So try. Okay, give it a whirl. ⁓ I think that's a good time to go to Six from SheClicks. I've got ten questions. Actually I've got quite a lot more than ten questions, but I've put ten questions to one side and I'd like you to answer six, please, by picking ⁓ numbers from one to ten. Okay. Okay. Number ten, So you could have your first number, please. ⁓ Right, please. I can't believe I'm answering Six from SheClicks a few people asked this. ⁓ What would be your dream commission? God, I don't I have dream commissions all the time, honestly. ~ because so Okay. Let's hear one. I'm doing the thing is because I don't particularly like planning, I love the element of surprise. So and that's more why I like people saying where they'd like to have their Mm-hmm. dog photographed rather than me suggesting. So my dream commission would be ~ I Just a fun dog in I like beach. I've only done one shoot on the beach ⁓ and I really liked that. I do like being able to get in a stream myself with the dog. So so that would be good. Yeah. Beach. Something involving water then, Yeah, I do I do like getting in and having the dog splashing around. a stream or a beach or Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Barefoot, soggy feet. No, no. Wellies. Well it's Sometimes they have a hole that I'm not aware of.~ but I yeah. I sort of wear you do,~ You soon become aware of it though. yes. No, I wear lots of sort of old dirty clothes so that I never have to think twice about getting muddy or wet or dirty. Okay. Could I have your second number please? Number two, please. Number two. Right, Philippa. We first met online during the SheClick's lockdown coffee morning Zoom calls.⁓ And I remember being fascinated by your life on a canal boat. Do you feel that living on the water influences your photography either in how you see light, the pace of your w you work at, the gear you use or the stories you you're drawn to? That question is from Carmen. Carmen, great question. So I think the basics of living on a boat, I move home, the equivalent of moving home, every two weeks. And back in the day I Mm-hmm. was moving home every two days. So and I think that sort of suits this whole spontaneity that I have. So I I'm really happy to get up really early to do a shoot. But I'd like to get up really early to do a shoot in a different place one day or another. So I think that influence you know, that sort of reflects my style of photography, which is I I don't I'm not someone who keeps revisiting the same place to do the you know, the four seasons or the the different atmospheres. Yeah. I'd rather sort of grab something when it's there and happening and then move on to yeah, the antithesis of probably a classic landscape photographer maybe. So it's it's like the newness to you that you're that pulls you in. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Can I have your third number, please? Number seven, please. Number seven. What other things have you done in life that have helped you most with your photography business? That question's from Liz. Liz. so I think my previous jobs, I moved to France and I taught at a university for a few years. Then I qualified as a teacher within the French system and was a civil servant. That taught me I didn't like being a civil servant. I moved to Turkey and worked as a rep and then I got a job on a little sailing yacht and then I moved on to super yachts and I'd never cooked a meal but I, you know, said I could cook, so I became the chef on super yachts.⁓ So I think all that taught me that I just don't think too much about things and I ~ I'm just always optimistic.⁓ So, famous last words, things generally I think go right for me because I feel like they're gonna be right. Some people might think that And adaptability as well. Yeah. So my photography business, if I hadn't been quite so spontaneous, if I'd thought of things through more, I maybe would have never, you know, booked the first craft fair without I didn't even have a car, I don't think. And then I booked it and I started getting my prints and then realized that it was physically impossible to get there. So it was then we bought a car to be able to get to a craft fair. and I for my business now Definitely getting on with people and chatting to, you know, everybody. And I'm quite an introvert. I'm exhausted at the end of the day at the market, but at the time I do enjoy talking to the people.~ and I guess that goes back to working on yachts you know, you just have to you can't decide that you don't get on with some people. You have to find common ground with everybody. What you were saying about, you know, giving things a go ⁓ and being adaptable, it made me think a lot of people spend time sort of ⁓ thinking and planning, well, I'll do this when I've done this course. Oh well, and then they discover something else they don't know, so they do that and then they have to buy this other piece of kit. And I was talking with someone else the other day and she was sort of saying, Yeah.⁓ I just need to give this a go with the kit I've got and s and then see whether I need anything else. And it's you know, with podcasts, for example, I I know of people who just do their podcasts on their phone because that's they've got and they find out whether they've got something interesting to say. If they have, then it's the time to get, you know, the microphone and the camera and stuff. And I think it's it's a sensible way to go. Yeah. Definitely. So I started off with my D750~ and I'd got my Sigma 105 that I I still love it.⁓ And I had a 70-200 2.8. So and I had a I think a 35 like a really Mm-hmm. my lenses were really old, but they were very good for you know back in the day they were pro lenses. So for me they were still really good. And I remember my first shoots and I do some with a 70-200 and then I put on the 105 because that meant that even if the dog was close to me, I could get a photo. ~ and I got some brilliant photos using that lens, just absolutely gorgeous. And I hardly ever use it now because now I've got the proper gear, but it's more foolproof, but there's definitely less of the edge of you know, the seat. ⁓ what's going to happen here? So it's interesting that that has changed. But I definitely started with the gear that I had and and it worked. It was really good. And I only upgraded when I'd got the opportunity to upgrade. And I was I knew that I was busy enough to to sort of justify it because it is a lot of money and you it helps definitely, but I was doing really good work with, you know, an older camera and older lenses. Okay. So, can I have your fourth number, please? Err, number Four, please. Are there any technical lessons you've learned that change the way you shoot? That question's from Ann. Yeah, so technical lessons I've I know my camera really, really well and I don't know every single thing about it. Mm-hmm. So I don't you know, the astrophotography settings, I really haven't learned those because it's not what I need from for the pets. But when I'm shooting pets, I know while we're walking along or while I'm laying down, if the eye focus is going to the bum, not the eye, for example. I can change that instantly and nobody will ever know I've also learnt that don't always like the blur as much as I do. So I make sure that I always get some sort of lovely creative shot, but I know how to get the more classically, you know, technically sharp front to back of the dog so that the average owner who loves all my blurring, you know, shooting through portraits. at the end of the day, if they want just a classic no grass in front of the the face sort of thing, they can have that as well. So yeah, technically it is important and Yeah, I've just learned learnt how to use my camera really well and but I think I always did and that's the point of shooting sort of on the go like that is knowing how to change when you need to. I guess commercially it makes sense to have a range of ⁓ styles as well. So like you know that that the that client might be all about the the shallow depth of field and love that blur, but they might want to buy a picture for aunty Mabel, who prefers front to back sharpness or something like that. Yeah. So give them the option to buy one for somebody else as well. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I yeah, thinking about the technical thing, that's just reminded me. So shoots in bluebells with with dogs, Mm-hmm. the white balance can be an absolute nightmare. So and I always I never shoot auto white balance, I always set it, but even then with light coming through trees at different angles and the colours of a green and a sort of purpley bluebell and the colour of a dog, that can take ages. And all I do But that is edit post to sort of get the white balance matching. But I don't sort of use auto white balance, for example, with that because that would create even more ~ issues. Okay. Right, time for your penultimate number. Number eight, please. You photograph everything from garden birds to domestic pets. Do you find your technical approach changes when switching between wild and commissioned pet portraits? That question's from Caroline. Yeah, nice question, Caroline. The only difference is it sort of what we were just talking about, really, is when it's wildlife and stuff, I go, I do go more creative these days. and I do less creative with the pets. I did recently do some proper ICM running with a dog, but that was a friend of mine, and I knew that we'd got the time,⁓ and if it didn't work, he wasn't expecting it anyway. And if it did work, it was more for me than for him. So that's something that I'd like to introduce in the future, Mm-hmm. but I keep that more for my personal stuff. So I'll I'll do some creative stuff, but it's more about soft focus and, you know, very shallow depth of field and shooting through with the pets. And I'll do ~ mostly that with my own wildlife and very little kind of straight wildlife photography these days. Okay. So your last number, please? Number numero uno, please. How do you typically manage high energy or nervous animals to ensure you get those calm, expressive shots that we see in your gallery? That's another question from Caroline. Hey Caroline. ~ so with the active dogs before a shoot, when they book or if people are interested, I've got this a list of how a shoot runs that I send to them that sort of covers the basics. And then a few days before the shoot, I send them another more detailed list. One of the things is if your dog's active, try and get a bit of the energy runoff before we meet. and We generally we do the running and jumping at the start of the shoot in the hope that by the end the dog's a little bit tired and will calm down. more and more, so that was how I've always done it in the last few months. Depending on the if the dog isn't particularly hyper, then I'll try and get some calm shots at the start because there is the risk that when the dog suddenly realizes it's playtime. For an hour that there is they just go hyper and then they don't come down at all for the whole hour. So it again it depends on the pet. But if it's if the owners say, my god, you're never going to photograph this dog because she she never sits still, and I'm like, I promise you I will, but I always ask them to get a little bit of excess energy runoff before we begin. Then I start with the action shots. And then because of how I do it generally, we go for a walk, then it almost obliges the dog. to slow down a little bit at some point and then I'll walk ahead or drop back and just be ready for that ~ sort of when the dog does do something cute and slow. Do you find that ~ your clients often say,~ the dog is much better behaved for you than it is for me or anything like that? No, what I ~ I do find quite often is that people overestimate how well behaved their dog is. And I'm I'm getting to judge that. So it's ~ a bit sort of yeah, Right. yeah, my dog's brilliant, that's great. And now I think it's probably not going to be.~ but again I'm more used to dogs that run free than dogs that sit and obey every single command. When that happens, I'm actually a little bit like,~ right, okay. And I I don't need to go into wildlife mode. Okay. ~ Yeah. I don't think about this. Have you ever had a dog just disappear? You know, it got a bit too free and wild and ran off. Mm sort of, but he didn't go far. I've the I've had the opposite actually. There was a gamekeeper who brought his three spaniels and they didn't want to leave him because they're trained to they really, you know, they're trained to just obey him. And when he'd say go and run free, they were like, you've never told us to do that before. That's bit weird, yeah. Yeah, how how are we gonna do that now? Yeah. Cute. Well, Philippa, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It's been lovely chatting with you. It's been brilliant, Angela. Thank you very, very much. And thanks for the questions. You're very welcome. Bye bye. Bye. Thanks for joining me for this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Philippa's website and social media channels in the show I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube if you search for SheClicks Net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.