Each survivor told me I feel completely torn from within. My experiences have not left me a complete person anymore. And that one... central statement that ran through every interview became also the central ritual that was presented on top of the image. So I just realized that if her soul is injured and if she doesn't feel complete, then the surface of the print cannot be complete either. Hello and welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I speak to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, ⁓ what drives them and how they got to where they are now. Today I'm joined by Sujata Setia, an interdisciplinary artist whose work explores social justice, gender-based violence, identity, and lived experiences. ⁓ She creates powerful work that invites conversation and reflection. ⁓ She was also the 2025 recipient of the SheClicks Spotlight Award. Hi, Sujata, thank you so much for joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It's really fantastic to have the opportunity to chat with you again. Thank you so much Angela for creating this space. I ~ I've always been very honored to work with SheClicks and there have been a few opportunities in the past. So thank you so much for this. You're very welcome and thank you for getting involved. So can we start at the beginning and learn a little bit about your background and what first really pulled you into photography?~ I think it's a lot of destiny and a lot that I think huh. I had always planned for. I ~ remember I was very young when I started thinking I want to be an artist. ~ My work is very autobiographical in nature.~ I am Indian. I moved to the UK in 2009 ~ as a trailing partner and then did my masters here at King's College London. And I was a radio presenter and a journalist back in India. So my focus has always been marginalized narratives in whatever work that I have done, some way or the other. I circle back to stories that do not find a space in mainstream media and ~ public discourse. Moving into photography in the UK was a very practical move. I did my masters here, did not get a job for the longest time. None of my qualifications from back in India at that time when I was looking for opportunities were suitable for the job market in the UK. So I was scrambling for a while and I don't know how from where a camera came my lap at the same time as a newborn baby came into my lap. So I became... A mother of a child and a mother of photography at the same time.~ And ~ yeah, it started by me taking photographs of my daughter You and soon I transitioned into child and family photography. And then it was only after the passing of my mother, in 2019 when I started to focus on narratives of gender-based violence. Yeah, so it seems like if you used to be a radio presenter, then storytelling and communication has always been part of what you do. Yes, absolutely. From the beginning. And what was it about photography? I mean, obviously it's a great way to document your child's introduction to the world, but what was it about photography that really kind of pulled you~ I think motherhood made me realize there's just so much history to it. I have grown up with the abuse within my own personal space. I've just seen domestic abuse while growing up. I've been a survivor myself of child abuse. And so when I had a daughter... It just felt like a strange form of fear where I felt that I would not be able to bring her up in a world where the cycles will not be repeated. And so I felt a sort of distance from her, Mm. very instantaneously. And ~ camera became a via media between her and me. It became a language. It became a bridge that brought her and me close to each other in a space where we were both equals. So I realized that through the medium of camera, and she was the first person I started to photograph. I started photographing her little moments.~ And it made me realize that we came into a space where she needed me to see her as much as I needed her validation~ in that moment.~ And so camera has been a language,~ a way of speaking for me ever since then. I'm actually a very very inward looking, not inward looking but a very shy and socially uncomfortable person and photography is just my way to feel like I belong wherever I'm sitting. Was there a point when you specifically can remember realising that it wasn't just about taking photographs of your daughter, it was actually a method of forming a connection with her and communicating? Right in the beginning. moment, like I said, just picking up the camera and starting to photograph her was the first time I started feeling that connection between her and me.~ Until then, I just felt fear, anger, ~ and just a whole lot of emotions that, you know, traditionally you do not associate to or with a new mother.~ And it was literally the camera that saved that bond. and brought us closer to each other. Yes. And now you take a lot of photographs or do a lot of work around other people's stories, not quite so close to, know, not within your family as such. How did you step out into that area? It also was a very practical decision ~ once I realized that I do take decent photographs ~ and thank God for my daughter she was just so adorable looking at that little young age that I think it just ended up being decent looking images and I started posting them on social media and a lot of friends and family started asking me if I take photographs professionally so also at that time I was unemployed I did not have an opportunity to work so I just picked up the camera as a way to~ bring bread on the table. And it's so worked out really well because ~ I never did a free shoot right in the beginning. I never did a shoot to build up a portfolio. I just started off straight off by selling photo shoots to friends and family. And that's where it turned into a profession very quickly. Yeah, good move I think. So how did you start discovering, you going beyond taking the portraits of your friends and family who were prepared to pay to starting to tell other people's stories? I used to always do it. when I started doing photography, I realized that it is... And I think I say it very often, it was like having... Being in a torrid love affair. You know? I was just obsessed with the camera at that time and I just wanted to take photographs and I wouldn't get...~ You know, the... I had this vision. I had all of these crazy visions and ideas of how... the perfect image needs to be. And when you're doing your client and family photo shoots,~ you're doing it for them. You're doing it for the perfect image on their living room wall. You're not doing it for yourself. So very, very quickly I realized that the images and visions that I'm getting in my head, I need to jot them down on a piece of paper and start to photograph them. So that became a way for me to start creating my own personal projects. The very first personal project I created was with my daughter and my dog at that time. I would just look at them playing in these really beautiful moments, but every time I would pick up the camera, that moment would go away. So I would start writing those moments down. And then the day I would get the perfect light in that space where that moment be reenacted, I would place them there and start. photographing them. So from there on then I started working on the projects that I really wanted to, like working with elderly couples, working with great grandparents and great grandchildren, know entering narratives and spaces which are sitting right in front of you are truly endearing but are rarely captured, you know how often do you capture a 90 year old great grandmother with a 9-day old newborn baby who does that? So I started I started focusing on those moments that really spoke to me. I think it's true to say when you start thinking about the people around you, everybody's got some sort of story, something's a little bit different about them that becomes an interesting opportunity for a project. So well said, Angela. I wouldn't be able to put it any better way. So your project, A Thousand Cuts, that won the Creative category in the 2024 Sony World Photography Awards. And it's a very powerful piece of work or body of work. What inspired you to start that? So, ~ like I said, for a good decade or so, I focused entirely on child and family photography. My projects were also very focused on this utopian ~ childhood world. And in a way, when I look back at that world,~ at those images, I do realize I was trying to sort of wipe out my own ~ childhood experiences and create this perfect universe that perhaps does not really exist. But through hiding my own reality behind that perfect universe, I felt ~ a momentary sense of peace.~ so in every step, every work that I did, I was always looking back at my own life and my own experiences and how I want to translate them in my own visual language.~ In 2019, like I said, I lost my mother and she was literally the fulcrum of my life. She was the only good thing about my childhood. And losing her made me stop for a while, completely lose my visual language. I went silent for an entire year. I did not know what I wanted to do with the camera. I felt angry towards it. I felt like the world that I was continuously trying to create and manifest ~ was just snatched from me. And after a year is when I picked it back again and I realized that I need to focus truly on the pain that is sitting with me. And that's when I started working first on the project called~ Changing the Conversation, in which I was working with people with visible and invisible differences. So literally trying to ~ bring into ~ artistic domain a conversation around the binaries of beauty, that there is something more than just beautiful or girl or boy, good or bad. there are so many nuances to humanity and beauty in itself. So that I did by working alongside people who were perhaps burn survivors, amputees, limb different, with rare medical conditions. And following that is when I started feeling that I could go deeper into my pain ~ and address something that has been sitting with me historically, that is domestic abuse. And that's when I started working with survivors of domestic abuse. Did you find that a painful process at times or was it entirely cathartic? It was in the beginning, it was many feelings,~ Angela. It's so difficult to actually define that feeling and Mm-hmm. I'm still continuing to have ~ those feelings resurface over and over again as I continue to make this work.~ Right in the beginning there was a lot of fear. Again, it was almost like having a newborn daughter and not knowing what to do with her. ~ It was literally that. I had this project in my mind but I did not know how to produce it. It was a very big and surmountable responsibility. I knew I'm not only taking my own story, I'm also taking stories from some other survivors. So, you know, just that responsibility of honoring their lived experiences in a way that is true to them and not sensationalized.~ Something that I had never done before. I was a portrait photographer. I was very ~ into editing the images, know. Aesthetization of the physical landscape of the image was very, very ~ integral to my visual language. And here I was met with the survivors who told me they don't want their faces to be shown. Also the work was moving into more research-based work. I was sitting with the survivors, interviewing them over and over and over again. So just creating a whole research on stories that have never come out in the These were women who were speaking about their trauma for the very first time. So I went through a lot. I went through many, many feelings. There came somewhere in the middle of working on this project, think, towards the end of the first year is when I started feeling a sense of freedom. A freedom from my own lack of boundaries. know, the very first time at that, I was 41 when I started working on this, or 40 when I started working on this project. And that was the very first time I started drawing boundaries around me that, you know, this is what belongs into my space and this does not belong into my And that is... a knowledge that I have gained through this project. So this project has ~ taught me a lot and definitely has been truly cathartic. At what point did you start actually making cuts into your prints?~ So this work was born through several iterations.~ In the very first iteration, I just was looking at my own personal story, literally. even when I had only interviewed at that stage, I think around 20 survivors, and I was just so focused on my own story, that I was literally not listening to what they were telling me about their own thing. And so I ~ started working with sketches of how my personal life was like, and I started drawing storyboard shots. And I decided I'm going to stage this entire thing. And every image will be a staged representation of how a woman's life is when domestic abuse unravels.~ And then I sat with it for a good six months, and I realized this was... not a true representation of domestic abuse and certainly not one of the unique lived experiences. Then there came another iteration that again I sat with for a couple of months and realized I wasn't still doing justice. And then finally is when I went back and listened to those interviews all over again and I realized that Each survivor told me I feel completely torn within. My experiences have not left me a complete person anymore. And that one... central statement that ran through every interview became also the central ritual that was presented on top of the image. So I just realized that if her soul is injured and if she doesn't feel complete, then the surface of the print cannot be complete either. Yeah. When I first saw your work, it was at the Sony World Photography Awards exhibition and you walked into that space and there was a huge print and it was equally beautiful and shocking because it was, you know, apparent that something, there was a message there, there was a story, ~ but it was just so beautifully done and you couldn't help but be struck by it and be interested. I think you were just standing to one side. So we had a bit of a conversation. I think that really had impact and obviously you won that category which is absolutely fantastic. Have you found since having that exhibition and maybe others that people have been more willing to be your subjects? No. Unfortunately not.~ It is a very sensitive theme and also, No, it's still a very sensitive area. one, nobody has openly reached out to me saying that they would want to be photographed. ~ But at the same time, Mm-hmm.~ which means that people still don't feel comfortable in reaching out.~ And that is something that's expected. It's a theme, subject shouted in complete silence. But at the same time, I also feel that when you are working on these narratives, it is only safer to work alongside organizations that are trained to take care of these themes and the people who are involved with it. So if I go directly to somebody who is a survivor, because I am not a trained social worker or a carer or I am not legally trained or am not psychologically trained, I might leave their wounds. bleeding at the end of it, which is not fair. Mm-hmm, no, no, that's a good point. Was it the first time you'd entered the competition? Let me think. I think Sony was the very first one because until then I was only showing this work in small groups and walking with the little box that I had made with all of my artworks to different people, gatekeepers in the industry. was literally knocking on doors and showing the work. So yeah, I think Sony was the very first one that I So was it a pleasant surprise, a shock to you when you walked into that exhibition at Somerset House and saw just how big that print was? More than that, just receiving the call from Sony, I was stumped. So there was a call that came and I didn't pick up huh. the phone call because you know those numbers, if a strange number is calling, Mm-hmm. you don't pick up the phone. And then I received a message saying Sony Photography Team and I was like, why are they messaging me? And yeah, the print was massive. Yeah. Yeah, the print was beautiful. And just the thought that Somerset House is hosting that work, know, these narratives are getting placed in. Mm-hmm.~ institutionalized spaces, ~ I think it holds meaning. How did you make your image selection or was it immediately obvious to you which should go in? At that time, I only had 10 artworks, so I submitted all 10 of them.~ Now, sometimes I am faced with the challenge of, know, somewhere, there are some places where you're only allowed to enter four or five images, but it is now getting very clear to me what are the images that~ hold most space in the public domain.~ Unfortunately, those are the ones I need to push forward because ultimately, to bring the larger story forward, you need to go with ~ which images are creating a visual impact. That's just the unfortunate nature of how things work. Yep. Yeah. Do you still do other portraiture work now or are you fully committed to the kind of the commentary work that you're doing, the project-based work? At my core, Angela, I am now very focused on gender-based abuse. I am very focused on actually gendered narratives. Mm-hmm. So ~ I try to ~ find commissions around that. But also it has worked the other way around. My client base has just started to believe that I do not take those kind of portrait works. So it's just sort of worked in a way where I'm Yeah. not even getting that work and I'm not pushing for it. But when it comes, I take it. Yes, okay. Good. I have not lost the skill, the skill is still there. So how do you, are you still able to, if you don't mind me asking, make a living through photography, through the work that you're doing? I'm going to be very honest, it's not very easy. When you start working in this domain, Mm-hmm. you need to make sure that you're putting your eggs in several, several baskets. You cannot be just pushing for one kind of work and hope that that's going to satisfy.~ So, award money is definitely a very big place for me to~ gain ~ constant living from.~ Then there are, I get a lot of university talk opportunities.~ I get other industry talk opportunities as well. I get commissions from organizations that are allied with my field. Besides that, I have started selling prints of this work.~ One of the artworks is in the process of getting acquired. So acquisitions. I get writing opportunities. I've started getting opportunities to...~ write in academic papers and other books contribute to other books. So there are a lot of different pots from which money has started to flow in. good. Obviously, there's been lots and lots of hard work, but do you think entering that competition and winning that category has really been a catalyst for you? Yeah. Definitely. ~ my god, the recognition from Sony has really brought about a massive change to ~ the journey of this in itself. ~ Otherwise, it was just sitting in the periphery somewhere and nobody was paying attention. Yeah. If you could go back and give your younger self some advice, what would you say? gosh, that's a tough one. I wish I had started working on this theme at a much, much earlier age. I feel like... Mm-hmm.~ I just recently had an exhibition in York and I was sitting with some really wonderful female artists ~ and we just started talking about the God Complex and they asked me what my thoughts on the God Complex is and I said all of us have it. I said, I as an artist believe that with my work I am going to transform the landscape of gender-based violence and it will end by the end of my next series in the world. So I said, each one of us have got complex but to be honest, artists are just idealists. We believe that we can change the world with whatever we are trying to say and I ~ held that idealism very, very deeply when I was young. I just wish I had the momentum at that age to start this work. Maybe I could have brought about a little, little, little change. which now I can just hope for, you know? Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it's coming. think, you know, like you say, it's about you have to build momentum, don't you? And there's there's key points that develop it and, getting getting yourself started and then entering competition, getting success and attracting attention. It's it's all part of the building of momentum, isn't it? Hopefully, yes. Okay, well I think it's a good time to go to Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers and I would like you to pick numbers from one to ten and answer six questions please. So could I have your first number?~ Five. Okay. Have you ever experienced imposter syndrome and how did you get through it? That was asked by several people. All the time, my God. I get the imposter's... I am living with it. I am the embodiment of it. How do I get over it? By just pushing my work out there. Yeah.~ By ~ just ~ telling myself every morning that my courage is more important than my fear. Yes. Do you think when you're working on a cause essentially that helps you because actually it's not about you and how you feel it's about those other people, those other women who need your help? Yes, absolutely. It makes me realize ~ that I need to put my ego aside, that I have to become very selfless. This is not me, this is them. Okay, good. Can I have your second number, please? What is your proudest moment in connection with your photography?~ gosh, that's a tough one. It is yet to come, I think. That's a good ambition to have. mean, you must have been very proud to win the category in the awards, but I think you have to believe there's more to come. So that's good. Okay. Can I have your third number, Two please? Your projects like Changing the Conversation deal with very sensitive themes. How do you build trust with your subjects to capture such intimate and vulnerable moments? That question's from Caroline. Thank you so much Caroline for the question.~ I enter the room with my own vulnerabilities ~ and the important thing is to remember where you positioned,~ what you are allowed to ask, how much can you ask without being extractive. So that constant reflexivity is very, very important. And also to belong in the same space, you have to bear yourself as honestly and as equally as you expect the other person to. Do you go into the conversations as a photographer thinking or telling them that at some point you want to take their photograph or do you go in and just start the conversation? No, I always when I interact with them, the very first time when I reach out to them, I inform them of what the basic premise of the project is. But for example, in the case of A Thousand Cuts, I was very, very open with the survivors and I told them that I don't know where this work is going. I don't even know what I'm going to come up with because I have no idea. So I told them the only thing we need here right now is to sit together and create a space where no one will judge the other and no one will stop the other person from talking. Okay, can I have your fourth number please? 4. What's the most valuable piece of advice you've received from someone in connection with photography? That question's from Liz. valuable piece of advice.~ I think I get ~ very good advice from people who are very close to me in the industry and I have very few very close friends in the industry. There's a friend called Anu Gamanagari and she's a really good friend and she always tells me to be~ less negative about things that are going on.~ I tend to sometimes become very angry very quickly ~ and the best advice I've really got is to stay calm and stay on my course and the doors will start Good advice. to open here. Good advice, I think. Yeah, it's very easy sometimes to have a little downward spiral, but it's better and often more helpful to focus on the positive. Okay. Yeah. Your fifth number then, please. Thanks. Your imagery often has a painterly, ethereal quality. Is this look a conscious choice to soften the blow of a difficult subject that matters to you? That question's from Caroline. Visual aesthetics are very very important for such work, know, and it's not appropriation of beauty in that sense, but it is just ~ borrowing from the visual language that is most acceptable ~ to bring such a difficult theme into the room and then draw an audience in who do not care for it, do not want to hear about it and do not want to see it at all. When there are such strong barriers, the only way to break down those walls is through entering the room with pure beauty.~ And so, yes, I put in a special effort to ensure that visually~ the work has strong, beautiful appeal as, Yeah, yeah, yeah. okay. Can I have your last number, please? Number one, One. This is from Liz. Do you work on multiple projects at one time? Okay. Yes, I do. Yes, always. So do you always sort of make it known that you're working on different things or do you just, do you keep some, you know, quietly to yourself? I keep trying a lot of things all the time. 99.99 % of the times I fail. So I'm sitting on a pile of a lot of failed~ So I never really share my ~ work until it's reached a point where it needs Yeah. to be shared. So for example, there is a project which I showed at the SheClicks Fujifilm Talk.~ I have been doing that work for two years and it's still not out yes. Mm-hmm. in the public domain. It's almost complete. But I will not share it until I am 100% sure that it is okay to send it out there. It takes a lot out of you. Yeah. It's like bearing your soul every single time and just keeping it out in the market to be judged and laughed at and commented upon. There's a lot of fear and there's a lot of protection that you feel towards your projects. So I take a while always to send them out. Yes, I can understand that as well. As you say, you know, if it's the theme or the subject that you're interested in, it can take a while to work out how you're going to photograph it, what you're going to do with those images and where they're going to be seen. So you need to find, feel your way really. Yes, absolutely. Well, Sujata thank you so much for joining me today. It's been absolutely wonderful to hear from you and thank you for answering all those questions. Thank you so much for making this space once again, Angela. You're very welcome. Bye bye. Thanks for joining me for this episode of the She Clicks Women in Photography podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Sujata's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show and tell all your friends and followers about it. In the meantime, enjoy your photography.