I have things that go wrong all the time in my business, even 15 years in. That's totally a normal part of it, but I'm always focusing on the wins. So I'm attracting more wins and I'm able to move forward, whereas a lot of people get stuck on the losses. So if you're feeling that, try this challenge of writing like 10 wins every day. And the wins don't have to be crazy. I'm like, they don't have to be like, I got published in this magazine. You know, that's not the wins we're talking about. We're like, I finished editing this gallery in this amount of time. You know, they can be so small, but I think it does retrain your brain. Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I speak to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are now. This episode is with Kylee Ann, a photographer, educator and business mentor who has built a thriving global photography brand. She's known for her focus on marketing, systems and sustainable growth. Hi Kylee thank you so much for joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography podcast. It's great to have a chance to chat with you. I'm so excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me. you're very welcome. Thanks for reaching out. Now, I know that the story of how you got your first DSLR is very romantic. So perhaps you could start by telling everyone about that, please. Yes, of course. So I was a young broke college kid and I really wanted to be a photographer one day. But at the time, everything was very expensive. You know, it felt like even groceries were expensive. So I said one day I would love to have a DSLR camera to my fiance at the time. And uh the next month I went into his room and where his Xbox used to sit was my first DSLR camera. So he had sold his Xbox and bought me a DSLR. And as you know, Xboxes are not very expensive, so it wasn't the best quality DSLR at the time, you know, but it got me started. And I used my first summer of portrait income to buy back his Xbox. So was kind of like our gift of love story. That's lovely. So you say you were interested in photography enough to know that you wanted to DSLR. Where did that interest come from? So I took a photojournalism class in seventh grade and I think that's like the beginning of when I just became really interested in it, like seeing things through a lens and being able to capture it. That was really cool. And my dad was always into photography as well. He didn't ever like do it professionally. Like he wasn't shooting on manual, but he always had a camera and was always documenting everything. And so I think the combination of that class and just having a dad that did love to document everything. He ended up getting a DSLR when I was in high school and I would take it to all the football games and all the camps and all the stuff and I always was taking pictures with it. So I did have just like a natural love for it. Yeah, and did you go on to study photography? At college? had an interesting program. think now as they've changed, it's been 15 years, um I probably would just because it was a lot of trial and error trying to figure it out on my own with no classes. But I did start attending conferences really early, like WPPI and things like that in the very, very beginning. Yeah. And it was only a few months after getting your first camera that you photographed your first wedding. How did that go? Yeah, well, I shot it on auto mode for $200. I think the bride knew what she paid for. And she was happy. I mean, at that price, you can't really complain, right? It was a lot of work for $200, but I was hyped about it because for me, it felt like I made it. Yeah. Do you think it was because you were so young, you just said, yes, let's go for it. And maybe now you'd give it some more thought. oh my gosh, yeah, I had no idea. Well, first of all, like, I didn't know people were even shooting, you know, $10,000 weddings or like, just like, oh my gosh, she'll pay me $200 for her wedding. This is awesome. Like, I just, think you don't know what you don't know. And I was so young that I just didn't have anything to like hold me back or to be embarrassed about. And then, you know, you start learning, you're like, wow, I can't believe I did that. But I'm glad I didn't know at the time because it really just helped me just go for it. Yeah, sometimes that's it. You can overthink things too much, particularly as you get bit older and start thinking, oh, well, I don't know this and I don't know that. But actually, you've got your camera. You kind of know what to do. You've to give it a go.$200, I mean. What can you lose to like, it's not a bad deal. Yeah. Yeah, but a year or so later, you started to ramp things up and, you know, take things a little bit more seriously. You graduated from college and made the push to be a full-time professional photographer. How did you set about that? Yeah, so I feel like in the first few years, I was kind of like a lot of amateur photographers where I'm just charging, you know, $35, $50, whatever I thought would be a good amount. And then I'm coming home and I'm spending like 10 hours post-processing and like, I'm, you know, doing all these scrappy things. um And then I graduated college and had my first son and I realized like the time that I had. to work on this business was now smushed into this smaller window and I needed to make that time away from my family worth it. When I was a college student, working for 10 hours for 35 bucks felt awesome. But when I had a baby at home, it didn't feel so good. So that's when I was like, I need to either drop this and do it as a hobby or make it worth it and run a business. So I dove two feet in, started investing in erm better equipment, like getting my first full frame camera, learning how to shoot in manual, going to conferences, learning SEO, learning marketing, um and then pricing myself correctly for the skills in the market. So did you put a business plan together? Did you work out what you needed to learn, where you needed to get to? Yeah, so I at the time before previously, I really didn't have any like goals. um I was just like, yeah, I'll shoot whatever. I don't really have any plans for this. And so this was when I first started putting together like, OK, I want to shoot this many weddings this year or I want to upgrade to this equipment by the end of this year and like actually having things to work towards. And I think because I actually had goals, it helped me create a plan towards those goals at that point. Because you had a baby at that time, did you find that that focused your mind a little bit more? Because suddenly it becomes, you you need to earn money to put food in your child's mouth. Yes. And like the time that I'm spending needs to be more valuable. Instead of just taking 10 hours to do a tiny project, you know, I need to like become efficient, become streamlined, create systems. So I'm not spending, you know, all-nighters editing. Like that's just not sustainable when you have a family. Yeah, I mean, guess by that time you were good at editing because you'd done quite a lot of it. But suddenly you think, actually, I need to produce better images straight from the camera, so they only need minimal editing. Exactly. And now editing, you know, a whole whole session could take me 10 minutes because it's perfect out of camera and you just add your style to it and sync it, double check it, export it. You know, it's easy now. Yeah. How long did it take you to go from being an amateur who was trying to be professional to feeling like you'd really started to make progress? You were actually delivering a professional service. I feel like it was in year three or four when I felt like, I'm actually like a great photographer. I actually know what I'm doing. I actually can do the same thing every time. Because I would have some great sessions where I'm like, wow, I nailed it. And then the next one would be like, ooh, that wasn't that great. But I feel like the consistent delivery and the consistent galleries started coming in year three and four. Yeah. And I guess you'd, by that time, your experience had built up to point, like, you know, you'd experience where the light was terrible or there's people in the way or the stuff not going right. Yeah, figuring out which lenses I liked and which settings I liked and all of that. was just such a learning process to figure out like what, because you know, everyone has a different aperture they prefer even or a different time of day they prefer. And it took a lot of like doing, you know, shoots multiple times of day or whatever to figure out what my style was. Yeah. And were you sticking purely to weddings at that point or were you doing other types of photography as well? At that point, I was doing anything anyone asked me to do. um I was photographing animals, newborns, seniors, you know, just everything that anyone could throw at me. was photographing because um I didn't have anything. Actually, when I first started, I did say, I'm never going to shoot anyone's wedding. You know, I won't do this. And then I think I even said like, I'll just want to do senior. You know, I just want to shoot one person at a time. That's easy. And then, you know, as you start shooting it, you're like, oh, you do photography. Will you come photograph my blah, blah, blah, blah. And then it just evolved into, I was shooting everything. And then I had to kind of like hone it back in to what I wanted to shoot at that point. And what did you decide to focus on? So for years I did specialize in weddings. And then as I started having more kids and they started growing up, I switched into those weddings turning to families. So I've kept those families that I've grown up with. But my main specialty is now commercial and product businesses. So. is that more manageable with a family as well? Yes. So I do, I focus on small businesses, not big productions or big, you know, big huge shoots or whatever. um And I have everyone, I have international brands, brands in all over the world and they ship to me. And then I have a backyard studio and I shoot while my kids are at school. So it's like the best job in the world because I get to control my time. And when I shoot it, they don't even know when I'm shooting it, you know, they just know that the gallery needs to be back within this amount of time. And so. It just gives so much control over my schedule and if my kids are sick or if like, I just can totally work around my family now. Yeah, I get that. get that. So what made you decide to start hiring photographers to work with you? So about year five, I feel like I had started producing consistent galleries. had like a specific style that people were wanting and catching onto. I figure out my marketing, so my SEO had kind of blown up and I had become the number one photographer in our area on Google. And so when people were Googling, they're finding me, they love the style, wanted to book me. I was getting three, four, five inquiries a day for single dates. And at the time I had just had a second baby. I was in postpartum. I was overwhelmed and the inquiries kept coming and coming and coming. And so the first thing I did was actually hire an assistant because I was like, I just need help with like sending off the albums and sending off the photos and you know, all the things that I was doing. And she was a photographer. She had come to one of my workshops that I taught and she um started kind of shadowing me with shoots too, just for fun and whatever. And then her work started kind of looking like my work. And one day someone said, would you ever bring her on as a team member and just have her work for your business? And I was like, that's actually such a great idea. So within a month, we're like, let's just try this. And it literally took off. She stayed on my team for seven years because it went so well. She ended up shooting about 50 weddings a year under my brand until she got married. And um it was super successful. So after that, I was like, OK, this model works. And obviously, was not, I mean, I think I was 20. two or three years old when I hired her. Like I was so young, did not know how to run a business, did not know how to run a team. I've grown, you know, this is 15 years in now, learned a lot of lessons. uh I definitely wasn't perfect, but I realized the model worked and I've been figuring out that model ever since. And now we have six photographers, three different states, four different counties. uh And it's a streamlined, like well-oiled machine now. And so that's kind of how it started just kind of by accident as most things in my life seemed to start. eh And then as I figured out, wait, this is awesome because now this photographer doesn't have to do all the things that I do. They don't have to have a website. They don't have to pay for galleries. They don't have to market. They don't have to, know, all these things that I'm already doing that's working really well that I have way more than enough leads for can funnel into multiple photographers who just want to pick up their camera and shoot. do you get them to do other types of photography that you don't enjoy as much or you don't have time for? Yeah, cool. That's very good. do weddings anymore, but my team does. So it's nice because all that SEO I've built that I don't want to shoot anymore still serves the bride and now new photographers that have filled into those positions. think that's a very clever move. It's also a very brave move because it's really hard, isn't it, to let go of bits of your business so somebody else is representing you and you're not there all the time watching what they're doing. You can only see the end results. Did it take you a long time? I mean, obviously you were very lucky with the first person. Did it take you a long time to find the right team? Yeah. And I mean, there have, I have had to fire a team member before I've lost team members in like in weird scenarios that they just weren't working or vibing like as from a, like a personality standpoint. And that's hard because, uh you know, like you've also brought them in and they've worked with your clients and serve their client, your clients for X amount of years. And then when they leave, some of the clients go with them sometimes too. So there is some things with it that are natural. And I had to figure that out at first, because in the beginning, that just feels like, my gosh, part of my business is leaving. But as time goes on, you realize there's more than enough to go around. It's just like your regular competition. It's the same exact thing. People mesh with different personalities and different whatever. And overall, it has been nothing but hot. If you look at the overall view of having a team, it's very, very positive. Yeah, I mean, I think if you look at it like a Venn diagram, there's the thing that you do, and then there's the thing that they do, which is the wedding, say, and there's a bit of overlap, because you could do a wedding if you wanted to, it's just you don't want to. So if they left and said, well, I'm not doing that wedding, then you could cover it. But the fact is they're adding to your business overall. So it is, and you're presumably training them up a bit as well. So it's a bit of a win-win situation. Yes. And when they come on and they leave, like the portfolio massively increases their experience, like their clout for being on the team, you know, that all helps. So when they leave, it's not like they've given up five years and they have nothing to show for it, you know, or whatever. So it is, and like the goal is that they stay, obviously, but that doesn't always happen. um The way I've built the model, like a lot of associate teams, I think they have them just do backups here and there. My version is they come on the team and we build this business together and then we spread out the wealth to everyone and it's a fun way to do it. How long does it usually take before you let someone go out by themselves? it depends. em I think it depends a lot on their confidence level. I think I have more confidence in them than they do usually because I'm like, you got this. Like I've seen your work, you know, and I think as photographers or artists, you know, we have that like imposter syndrome a lot. And I think that does show up, especially when I hired them to work for my team. They get this extra pressure of now I'm not just trying to serve the client. I'm trying to make sure I do a good job for you. And I feel like they feel insecure um in the beginning of like trying to not only work for their client, you know, a whole team like represent a whole team. So it depends on the person and where and where they're at. But I mean, it's it doesn't sometimes it's within the month, um especially where if they've come from experience, you know, if they've had experience shooting those kinds of things now, I'm just going to train on how I do it. Let them shadow me a couple of times. I have a lot of training that they go through. Once they're through all that, we let them loose. Yeah. I was going to ask you, you know, how did you move into education and public speaking? But it's fairly obvious that it was a natural progression for you because you're kind of doing it with the people next to you anyway. So you just kind of expanded out. Is that that right? Yeah. Yes. And my first degree that I was studying for was to be a teacher. So like, I think I naturally have always loved like, I learned something, now I want to teach it and turn around and help the person, you know, behind me. So it did start really naturally. Like, I think it always starts with people just asking like, Hey, would you help me learn that? And I'm just kind of an open book kind of person. And so I was like, Oh, this is fun. I'll do a mentorship. Like someone asked me, did you do mentorship? like, Now I do. I'll start it, you know? And it's cool because my first mentor, I think it was in my first mentor session, 2013, she has come to five retreats. She's in one of my live classes right now. I mean, she's been with me from the beginning and it's just fun. It's fun because it doesn't stop at just the photography clients. Like I get to help the industry and be involved in the industry and it's fun. I love the teaching aspect of it. So what sort of courses do you teach beyond the photography, the processes and the marketing and that kind of thing? Yeah, so in the beginning, I taught a lot about marketing and systems because I noticed that in the industry of photography, a lot of people are really right brained, you know, but not a lot of people were figuring out the systems that I had to develop when I had, you know, that first kid and, and I was like, need to make this more streamlined and efficient, use CRMs and all this stuff was was not normal in the beginning. Like 15 years ago, no one knew what a CRM was, you know, no one knew what and so we're creating those processes, you know. And same with marketing. No one knew what SEO was 15 years ago. No one knew how to use social media. We didn't even have Instagram, you know? And so I had figured those things out. And so I started teaching those in the beginning. And now I teach how to grow an associate team and how to step into product photography. So those are my two main things that I teach now. But it's kind of like what I learned. I turn around and help people do the same because there's just more than enough room for us all to be in the same spaces. So there's probably quite a few enthusiast photographers who don't know what a CRM is either. Probably. CRM is a client relationship manager. Basically, it's to keep your head on straight where if a client inquires and then you send an invoice or contract or you're communicating with them, it's all in one app so that you're not having to like, oh shoot, did I text that client or where were they at or were they going to book a shoot? In the beginning of time, we didn't have any tools like that. Now they have HoneyBook, Dubstow, 17 Hats, all these CRMs, you could find a ton. ah But in the beginning, we were just doing everything with, you by hand. And so in the beginning, I actually created a spreadsheet, I used to sell it of like how to keep track of everything and all that. But you don't need to spreadsheet anymore. Spreadsheets are way worse than the CRM. But you do need to know you do need to have some systems in place, even if you don't have a huge clientele and you're not ready to pay for CRM. There are ways to manage that so that you have lists of your clients and where they're at. Like, okay, they said they wanted to shoot. Have I reached back out with them? Have I followed up? You know, that kind of stuff so that you're not leaving anyone behind. Do you make little notes in it as well? Like, you know, this person really loves to wear a red suit or this person likes to have that blue jumper on just so you know and you can make those little comments, Yeah, and because we blog every session that comes through that we shoot, that's nice too, because then when it comes to their annual session or whatever, I can go back, okay, we've already shot at all of these locations, what's left? And I can kind of reference the blog on like things that happen and stuff. Because now that I'm 15 years in, I have some clients that they're on year 12 of family pictures with me. So that's a lot to remember 12 years of sessions and where we went and what they wore and those kinds of details. that's, even though the blog is not really for that, it does kind of come in handy in that way of helping us remember those kinds of details. Yeah, kind of things that they liked or how they felt in the session and that kind of thing could be really useful to know. Now, I know you're passionate about marketing. What do you think is the biggest mistake that photographers tend to make with marketing? I think the biggest mistake is that they just aren't doing it. think when I look, when I audit a photographer's um Instagram, I'll be like, okay, let's look at the dates of when you've posted. And it'll be like, okay, they posted last Wednesday and then the time before that was six months ago. And then the time before that was like the day before, but then it was four months before that. And so I think the biggest mistake is just you're not consistent because consistency on anything, even if you're not, if you're like, I only use Facebook or I only use Instagram or I only use SEO, you don't have to be everywhere, but you have to be consistent where you are. So if you're, if it's Instagram, be consistent, post two or three times a week. Cause a lot of, um, successful marketing and successful, like posting to booking is just from reminding people that you're, that you're even there and that you have openings and that you even do this because that's just where people are at. Like if you're on the top of their mind, they're going to book you. Yeah, okay, yeah, good advice, I think. So I think that's a good time to go to Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers, and I would like you to answer six questions, please, by picking numbers from one to 10. So could I have your first number, please? Let's go with three. This is a good one to start with. I am an amateur photographer with a full-time career in a completely different industry. I'm also a wife and a mum of a nine-year-old. Photography is my real passion and while I can't see myself leaving my current job anytime soon as it pays the bills and funds all the lovely gear, I'd love to build up some paid work on the side. Do you have any advice for photographers like me who want to take up on more part-time work or weekend gigs without going full-time? That question's from Carmen. Okay, so I love this Carmen. I think there's lots of ways to do this. I think one of the simplest ways is kind of doing, I mean, this is not advice I would give to someone who is gonna be professional, wants to be consistent, wants to be doing this all the time. But where you're starting, where you don't want to invest all this time and all this money, I would start with like your local. Facebook or group, I don't know. I know it's different in every city, but there's got to be those local groups or even like local chambers or local whatever and putting out advertisements in those things. Like I am doing pictures in these blossoms. I am doing pictures in this field on this day. And you don't have to have a website. You maybe have an Instagram so you can have a portfolio, but it can be just so organic, so basic. And you just post a little, you make it in Canva or you make it with AI a little. graphic with your work, what's included, whatever, and just post and get two or three every two weeks or something. And I mean, that's not something I would say for a professional because I want you to have a website and have SEO and have leads coming in. But for someone who's just like, I just need to do this on the side until I can invest the time into a professional set up, just use your local networks. Okay, great, thank you. Could I have your second number, please? Ooh, let's go five. What is the thing you think most people would find most surprising about your job? That question's from Liz. That's a good question, Liz. The most surprising thing about my job. um I think people are often surprised at how I live in a very small town in the middle of Utah, very oversaturated with photographers. There's photographers everywhere. And that I've built this multiple six-figure business that is uh from international like I say what I'm an international photographer that's that you think oh she's traveling the world and doing all these big things and I'm literally in my sweatpants in my backyard shooting boxes from you know from Canada or whatever I think the most surprising thing is that you can make something very big with your very normal life uh and you don't have to be a world traveler or be you know on these big stages or do anything crazy to make that happen it can be so organic That's a really good point. Yeah. What's your favorite thing? You you said you do product photography. What's the sort of thing you think, yeah, I'm going to look forward to photographing that? So I do a lot of my, my main genre is actually baby and kids. So I love shooting baby and kid products because one of the biggest reasons is em I get to just spoil like my neighbors and friends and community because they get to come model. They get free pictures. They get to take home all the products. And it's so much easier than trying to get these clients and then they'll, they turn into clients, you know, cause they're like, my gosh, we love your pictures or whatever. But I don't have to like try to use my local like. people to like get money. Like it's just spoiling, spoiling, spoiling. And so I love, I love the baby shoots and the toddler shoots. They're so funny and wild and uh it's fun to see all the products that are in that. Man, that industry is huge. Lots of crazy stuff. Okay, your third number please? Seven. Do you edit your own work yourself or hand it over to a post production team and how much time is spent on that? That question is from Philippa. Okay, so usually I edit most of my own stuff um just because like we talked about earlier, it's just so easy now. I shoot in manual, I shoot with Kelvin. um It's pretty much perfect as far as exposure and white balance goes. And then I just put my preset that I've made on to add the style and then just quick adjustments. uh A full hour session with 75 pictures could take me 15 minutes, you know? A wedding. a little bit longer, you're dealing with different lighting, whatever, maybe an hour, an hour and a half. I don't really shoot that many weddings anymore. I do have an editor on my team and she is using AI editing through Imogen is what we're using. So she edits all of my associates work. So I edit my own and she edits the associates. I used to edit all the associates too, but then I was back in the whole, I have no time cycle. So we do have a team editor. Okay, yeah, that makes absolute sense. All right, so your fourth number, please. let's go eight. ah If photography hadn't worked out, what was your plan B? That question's for Marie-Ange. Did you have a plan B? question. I was too young for a plan B. I started in just so, early em that I think photography was my plan B. So my plan A was teaching. I was going to school for elementary and special education. um And then I started photography just as like a side thing to get through college and I fell in love with it. And then, you know how the story went after that. And so I actually, I feel like photography was the plan B. I think plan C, if like I ever stopped doing photography, I would love to go into like having like a marketing agency or something like that, using a lot of the skills I've gained from being a photographer and putting that, but it probably still come with some photography ah too. So yeah, it is the plan. It is the plan B. Okay, so your penultimate number please? Number two. What are the most important things you look for when inviting someone to become part of your team? That's another question from Liz. Liz, this is a good question. So honestly, the biggest part uh of this is more personality based and are they teachable and do they fit the brand? they do they have the same energy as me? Because when you're a service based business, part of your what people are buying is your personality and how you work with them and and the experience that you offer them. And so I have to choose people that kind of match that. energy to a sense. We're all very different, but I can't have someone that comes in and is a completely different personality. uh And it doesn't have to be a certain person. Your personality might be different than mine, so your team might look totally different than mine. But for me, it matches my vibe, my personality. They have to be teachable because there is a lot of feedback. When you're working for someone else, uh you have, especially art, right? It's like kind of going back to art school, but I'm very nice about it. But it's There is feedback to get the work up to standard across the whole team. needs to be the same. um And then just being a team player, because it's not, we're not, people aren't in it for themselves. You're not trying to just get more and more and more for yourself. It's like you're getting more for the team. You really have to want to be a team player to be on the team. That's important. to get on with them, right? I mean, they could be the best photographer in the world, but if you don't get on, I mean, it's, you're the boss. Yes, exactly, exactly. And the photography part you can teach. You can teach someone how to be a photographer. You can teach someone how to shoot in manual. You can teach someone how to use lighting. But you can't teach people how to be nice to people, you know? Like, that's just a basic need. Yeah. Okay. So your last number, please? 10. All right, so what advice would you give to new photographers starting out in their business now? And that's from several photographers. Okay, I like this. So starting out. Oh gosh, there's so many things. The first thing I would say is don't overthink. I think a lot of people get stuck in that overthinking cycle. I'm not good enough. I can't charge that much because that person charges that much and I'm not as good about that person or I haven't been doing as long as that person or you know, that kind of thing or or getting stuck on editing a photo and they're sitting there for 30 minutes trying to make a photo perfect and then they go to the next one and they're spending 10 hours. think The overthinking cycle is the biggest thing that holds people back from growing their business. When I'm coaching people, a lot of them that are constantly second guessing themselves, I feel them stay stagnant because they need someone to say like, this is good, this is good, this is good. I want you to just go for it. Take the next step. Like that's how I've built this business. I'm just a normal girl in an oversaturated small city. I started at 18 years old. I'm not anything special. Building a multiple six figure brand. from my backyard and now speaking on stages, all this stuff just because I took one step at a time. And so I would say the biggest thing is just go for it, take the next step, even if you don't feel ready for it, you're never gonna be ready for it. And if you're thinking you're not ready for it, so just take the next step, do the next thing, post the sessions, raise the prices, know, all of that stuff. Yeah, I entirely agree. It's your head that holds you back. But getting out of that mindset is really hard, isn't it? I how do you just reassure people? you say, right, stop, do it now. Yeah. Well, actually what I did for one of my clients that struggles with this a lot, she gets in this sabotage cycle where she does really well and then she starts overthinking and then she kind of crashes a bit. um I've had her start writing 10 things that she's grateful for every single day and 10 things she sees as success in her business every single day. And it flips her mindset to look for the good because I think naturally we look for all the things that are going wrong. And sure, it didn't take away the things that are going wrong. We're all going, I have things that go wrong all the time in my business, even 15 years in. That's totally a normal part of it, but I'm always focusing on the wins. So I'm attracting more wins and I'm able to move forward, whereas a lot of people get stuck on the losses. So if you're feeling that, try this challenge of writing like 10 wins every day. And the wins don't have to be crazy. I'm like, they don't have to be like, I got published in this magazine. You know, that's not the wins we're talking about. We're like, I finished editing this gallery in this amount of time. You know, they can be so small, but I think it does retrain your brain. Yeah, that's really great advice. think it's so important to post, to concentrate on the things that are going well and forget that one thing that wasn't absolutely perfect. Yeah, I think that's a good approach. that even professionals are having things, like it's just a natural part of business life. The journey is there's bad things and good things every single day. Yeah, yeah. Well, Kylee thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. It's been absolutely lovely chatting with you. Yes, thank you. This was fun. I love the questions and the, I never know what's coming. It's great. Yeah, that's great. All right, thanks very much. Bye bye. Thank you. Thanks for joining me for this episode of the She Clicks Women in Photography podcast. I you enjoyed it. Special thanks to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Kylee's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube if you search for SheClicksNet. So until next time, enjoy your photography.