Anna Sparham: 0:04

It's interesting looking back at how much you just absorb from continually looking and continually, not necessarily analysing, but absorbing and respecting, I guess, and appreciating the work that's been created. Yeah, so I think it sort of all shapes your vision for the sort of photography you wish you could take yourself and then somehow emulate some of that.

Angela Nicholson: 0:26

In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them and how they got to where they are now. Our guest today is Anna Spaham, curator of photography for the National Trust. She cares for images from the historic to the contemporary, and is the curator of 100 photographs from the collections of the National Trust, a book drawn from the trust's half million strong archive. Hello, Anna, thank you for joining me on the SheClicks women in photography podcast today. It's lovely to see you. Thanks so much for having me. Oh, it's great. Thank you. Now, where did your interest in photography start?

Anna Sparham: 1:12

Oh, it's a long story. Pretty much all my life, my now retired photography teacher, Dad, I guess he was the biggest influence very early on. So I remember being in the dark room for the first time probably about the age of five

Angela Nicholson: 1:24

Oh, wow.

Anna Sparham: 1:25

in his school. But I'm not gonna pretend I'd be practising photography since then, definitely not. I did the GCSE in photography at school. I went to Foundation, and then Nottingham Trent University, and studied for a degree there. And yeah, it's always been that that passion, really, that I always wanted to have in my life. I think I sort of knew at university that I didn't necessarily want to be a professional photographer, but I always knew that I wanted to work with it and not lose the joy, I suppose, that I thought maybe a job as a photographer might be, which is awful to say, but at the time, that was my thinking, yeah, so it's been there throughout my life.

Angela Nicholson: 2:04

And did going to Nottingham Trent University shape, how you thought about photography, that you were going to be more interested in the photographs, the history and the heritage? Or did you know that before you started the course?

Anna Sparham: 2:15

I remember choosing Nottingham because it was much more sort of fine art focused course. I never thought I was particularly technical. And obviously, in any photography course, you're learning the technicals, but I really tuned into that conceptual thinking. I got into this sort of history and, you know, inspiration and influences that kind of drive your own style and interests. Yeah, I think I recognise that that's what that, course, gave me, having said that, it also gave me really luckily, in terms of a career, I was at that sort of hybrid of analogue and digital. So I did learn how to use Photoshop and how to scan and all of that was really crucial for me to get my first job in the industry. But yeah, that's, I think, the area that most interested me.

Angela Nicholson: 3:02

And how did you find your first job in the industry?

Anna Sparham: 3:06

I started by getting in, as in a picture agency in Birmingham. So I, you know, was very lucky. I wrote basically, very naively and sort of as you do at like 21 boldly wrote to people. So I got into a picture agency, and then I wrote to a museum director down in Bristol, and as I say, like shared the fact that I had this photography knowledge, that I knew what to do with scanning and things like that, and copyright especially. And I think I just struck lucky, completely lucky. He was after those kind of skills at that moment in time. So I'm always a bit embarrassed about that, because there's so much competition to get into the sector. But I guess, in my defence, I guess you know you can only you know you have to make it happen either way. And I was kind of proactive in that way. And yeah, so I learned a lot very early on, on that first job that I sort of fought, sort of foot in the door, as it were. And then after a couple of years of that, I moved to London, and my real kind of learning in the industry came at the Museum of London, now called the London museum rebranded, where I spent 15 years basically learning the ropes.

Angela Nicholson: 4:21

How did that shape your vision of your career?

Anna Sparham: 4:25

I think I I knew that I loved working with both historic and contemporary photography. That's always been the real, the real sort of magic for me is that you can look after and care for historic collections. And there's so much to learn. There's so much to interpret that's very subjective, but there's also so much that you just take in, you know, in terms of style, in terms of approach from photographers and and then take that to how you read and work with and liaise with contemporary photographers as well. And I think for myself, I guess for many years, I didn't create my own photography beyond you know the wonderful pictures you take of your children, and there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I loved it, but I never had that personal photography project on the go until recently. And I think it's interesting looking back at how much you just absorb from continually looking and continually, not necessarily analysing, but absorbing and respecting, I guess, and appreciating the work that's been created. Yeah, so I think it sort of all shapes your vision for the sort of photography you wish you could take yourself and then somehow emulate some of that.

Angela Nicholson: 5:37

Did you ever find it slightly overwhelming because you're seeing all these photographs of historic significance, important people, important events and all this sort of thing, and perhaps milestones in photography itself. Did you sometimes find that a bit overwhelming for your photography, and that's kind of made you shelve potential projects?

Anna Sparham: 5:56

Completely. I remember doing an exhibition just after my first child in London, called London street photography. And I remember feeling really inspired. You know, I've been given this opportunity to co curate an exhibition, and that's the best thing. When you're doing an exhibition, you suddenly get it might be very specific feel, but you're suddenly inspired by that specific field. And I remember thinking, right, okay, I'm going to pick up a camera, I'm gonna go on the street, I'm gonna try and do this. I absolutely could not do that. I just, I really, really show me what I can do and what I can't do. So yeah, you do definitely feel intimidated in some ways, and overwhelmed, certainly by just the wealth of creativity. And there's always that, I think being, you know, somewhere deep inside being that photographer, you always want to be able to do that yourself. So you inevitably feel not jealousy, but you feel envy that somebody is out there doing that. And, yeah, just just being, I mean, I've met so many wonderful professional photographers, you know, the big names, but through to, through to those that are really just getting going, and it's just been so rewarding to kind of see them flourish, or see them talk about their years in the in the field. It's been overwhelming, but very joyful.

Angela Nicholson: 7:13

I guess you've got a really good education and understanding in what makes a great photograph. And then if you're out in the street, and you're holding your camera, sort of waiting for that to come along, or trying to make it happen. It is, it is quite hard. But also you need to kind of build up a bit of momentum with photography, don't you, and a bit of muscle memory and start taking the not so great images, so that you can take some of the great ones too.

Anna Sparham: 7:37

Absolutely that. I mean, I think with street photography at the time, it was very much, you know, focused on those candid, perfect shots that just come into play. I personally don't do that. I personally have moved into landscape and nature and very much absorbing and immersing myself in that, in that scene. And exactly as you say, a project I did before I took this job, I got an Arts Council grant for developing your creative practice, because I really wanted to build that photography practice myself, again, coupled with curation. And I spent, you know, very much part time, but spent a year immersed in my local park in Sutton Park. And if I did that every day, you absolutely build up your eye, your style, your confidence, and just become completely immersed in it. And so yeah, you definitely can't just pop out and get the same hit. Of course, you can get lucky, but yet you don't, you don't get the same reward or satisfaction, or obviously, the sort of results you're really hoping for. So yeah, that is a that is why I tell myself I'm doing this long term personal project, because that's exactly it. I don't feel satisfied by the odd shot I might have taken one day. I've got to really build that up.

Angela Nicholson: 8:52

Would you like to tell us what your long term project is?

Anna Sparham: 8:55

So that is very much on Sutton Park. I started it with this, with this Arts Council grant in 2021 and I had that year I was freelancing as well, so it was very much part time, but it was all about teaching myself how to use large format for the first time and through to cyanotype printing, and really just giving myself that opportunity to get out there again and do that. So it's, you know, it's more than sort of pictures of trees. It's trying to pick out the sort of real context and essence of the park. And I've sort of played with snapping people that I've met, but I think it's at the moment, it's very much me still trying to find what it is I want out of that project. But what I also love about the park, this particular this particular park, is how much it's attracted photographers over the years, and still does, I think even you had Verity Milligan talking about a little bit about it in the past as well. And I love that. I love that there's this hub that people enjoy and experience for all the other reasons outside of photography. Happy, but it's still this magnet for for creativity, and something I hadn't really thought did exist when I started the project, and have since learned through history that it's been this real source of inspiration. So yeah, it's it's ongoing, but loving it.

Angela Nicholson: 10:15

Oh, fabulous. Please excuse this interruption. This episode is brought to you by CEWE, Europe's leading photo printing company and the hero product, the seaweed photo book that is the proud recipient of the which Best Buy Award. You know, there's 1000s of photos sitting on your phone or hard drive. With a CEWE photo book, you can turn your memories into a beautiful, high quality album that you want to show off. Every page is fully customisable, and you can pick from a range of sizes, finishes and layouts, designing every detail with their easy to use editor or let their smart assistant help. So if you're ready to do something real with your photos, head over to cewe.co.uk. That's C, E, W, E.co.uk, okay, let's get back to the show. Now, you work for the National Trust. You're the curator of photography. How did you find that job?

Anna Sparham: 11:11

So after I left London in 2019 and I was freelancing and doing the work that I just explained, yeah, the job came up. I had seen the sort the similar post role come up a few years before, just as I left London, and had sort of wanted to go for it then, but in that relocation time, it wasn't the right moment, and it came up as a temporary maternity cover. And I just felt at that moment in time I was ready to kind of step into another large institution and take to it all the experience I had to date. So I've been there three and a half years already. Can't believe that. Yeah, and it's and it's good being based in Birmingham, because my job requires me to travel quite a bit to different properties across England, Wales and Northern Ireland. So that turned out well. And, yeah, it's, it's fascinating. And, you know, it's sort of job you could have for life where you know that there's just, you'll never quite get to the bottom of everything that the trust holds, but there's just so many magnificent gems to pull out and really get your teeth into.

Angela Nicholson: 12:17

So what really is your role, and what is your your typical day? If you have such a thing?

Anna Sparham: 12:22

Obviously, I never have a typical day. So my role is really as an advocate for the collection. So our photography collections are scattered, really across the country. They're in all of the different properties we have, most of the properties that we that we look after. So my role is to kind of investigate what we have and help our colleagues learn what we have. Because photography has been the sort of underdog in terms of the collections. I'm not the first person to be in this role, but it's a new role in terms of a national perspective and having that national grasp of what we hold. So yeah, it's it's helping colleagues unearth what we have, understand what we have and appreciate it as well, and kind of look at photography in many ways, mostly primarily to help public engagement. So how can we make this photography more visible? What, how and what might it inspire for our visitors? And I think that's works both internally and externally. So I don't like hold the keys to all photography. I just help my colleagues work with what they have and think about how best to sort of draw that out and explore that. So a typical day might be me. Yesterday wasn't quite typical. I did spend eight hours on a train, but I might be travelling to one property or another. I might be reporting on the collection they hold. Sometimes, for the first time, from a curatorial perspective, I might be holding meetings about exhibition planning or research projects. Might be carrying out some research, and which is lovely to do, of course, that sort of photo history research and joining the dots, and, yeah, driving the clues really to what to what we hold and what we can do with it.

Angela Nicholson: 14:02

Yeah, now my perception is, and I might be wrong in this, that the National Trust seems to have gone through a bit of a change in its attitude towards photographers, because it used to be a little bit of a difficult relationship. And I do understand it, because obviously, you know, you've got a valuable asset, and if people just come in and photograph it, and then sell their photographs. And that is, that is an issue, you know, you it's a commercial use of your properties. But it also used to be a little bit tricky if you wanted to take pic, you know, just your own personal pictures, just to remember day out, maybe use a tripod occasionally, that kind of thing. But these days, that doesn't seem to be quite such an issue, and has there been a policy decision, or do you think you know the the number of mobile phones that people use these days and everyone taking pictures has sort of forced some relaxation.

Anna Sparham: 14:50

I think without policy, there is an inevitable acceptance and understanding and appreciation and also benefit of watching your visitors photograph. Are where they are, there is always going to be that line between commercial and and for personal use, and that still stands. I personally don't get involved in the commercial side of things. My role is very much on the collections and the commercial wing and how photographers approach the trust and the places they want to visit and take photography at isn't, isn't really my area, without sounding like I'm passing the buck, but it's, but, yeah, I think, I think there is a general consensus that we want to encourage people to feel inspired by the places they're at. That is, by and large, aimed at the non specialist and the and the personal photography that people want to take and obviously put on their social media, but the professional side of photography, yeah, there's still that policy. And I think over time, I would imagine that the sort of general ethos of the trust and the direction we're going in in, you know, making things as accessible as possible is is going to broaden, I'm sure of that.

Angela Nicholson: 15:56

Great. So what surprised you most about your role when you took up your job with the National Trust?

Anna Sparham: 16:03

I don't think you can ever quite grasp the scale collections to visit. of the of the National Trust. I know it sounds ridiculous, because I knew it was across all three nations, but it's it's the scale and the number of people you work with. So unlike my previous role in a museum where I had, you know, one collection. I forget how many, 20, 30,000 photographs maybe I have forgotten. Here you're looking at half a million scattered across the country. So there's that, there's that of I can't possibly see them all, and I can't put my hands on them all, and so there's that bit of distance to get my head around. But yeah, I think mainly just the opportunity and the potential that lies in those collections is so vast. I mean, we all know how accessible photography can be as a medium, and I love the fact that they don't sit in silo either, you know, they can really connect with many other collection aspects that we have, whether that's interiors or whether that's costume. You know, there's so many ways in which you can draw those and connect them with perhaps

Angela Nicholson: 17:05

from the Collections of the National Trust.

Anna Sparham: 17:25

It was a great challenge to have. I love working with books. I have to say, it was. It was lovely to be told, pretty much, my first day, are you going to be producing this book. So I've, from the start, I've always said it's not a best of it's not the top 100 it's a starting point. It's a kind of way in for people to realise the breadth what we hold. So practically speaking, it meant navigating as much of our database, our collections database, as I could, knowing that I couldn't possibly get everywhere against the time timeline that we had. But I did. I did visit I don't know, at least 30 places, some of which you're diving in very much. For the first time, you might have found an album is listed on our database, but nobody's had the time yet to look into the individual photographs. So it's it was being very intuitive as to what I could find if I took the time to go and visit a place, so having to kind of preempt what I might find, you know, it might be a description of a photograph that I know, bringing my knowledge to it could be a really famous photograph by a really famous photographer. And that did happen, but it's also, it was also about finding the real unsung, you know, the amateur photographers, where you you kind of think, actually, I'm not sure this has been given the the time of day, or, you know, really wanting to kind of shed a light, shine a shine a light, even on those, those photographers and the work they were creating. So it was really, it was really challenging, obviously And inevitably, once you've printed it, there are dozens of other photographs you found since that you'd love to put in, yeah, Volume Two, but yeah, I very much saw it as a real opportunity to show the breadth of imagery, but also the material qualities and the different types of photography we hold. Clearly it had the book is chronological, roughly chronological, so you have to meet certain criteria a certain amount from a certain period, or make sure there's a real breadth across the three nations as well. So that does dictate your selection process. But I just wanted to have interesting, intriguing images that had great stories attached. And so it was. It was hunting the stories out alongside the images. Which was the real job.

Angela Nicholson: 19:40

Do you have any favourites amongst those photos, either because of their historic significance, or who or what's in them or the story behind them?

Anna Sparham: 19:47

Had a feeling you might ask me that, and it's always the hardest of questions, because you feel so wedded, whether it's an exhibition or a book. You be you know they become like your children. You become so wedded to these images. I have a few. Um. Um, there's a, there's a beautiful image in Arlington, down in Devon, with an amateur photographer, Rosalie Chichester. She was the sort of lady of the house, and she photographed her flowers, which I presume she collected from the garden and arranged the still lives. And they're very sumptuous, very beautiful, very, you know, simple in their approach, but beautifully staged. I have let me think there's Anna Atkins. You do know, I've just realised I'm tuning into women without actually, genuinely intending to Anna Atkins. So I don't know early cyanotype photographer so many, I think, a lovely picture of Muhammad Ali by nel and Neil Kenlock, that was a surprise to find at the Children's Country House at Sudbury, and they'd recently acquired that print as part of a funding project a few years ago, sort of expanding our vision of children and childhood. So Muhammad Ali is meeting lots of children in a school in Croydon, and so that that was wonderful, just so many landscapes, trees, the sort of things that, yeah, I'm drawn to, but I know that visitors are also going to find connection to.

Angela Nicholson: 21:10

Yhat's interesting. So the Muhammad Ali picture didn't really have a direct connection to a national trust property, or the National Trust itself was somebody had acquired it because of its significance with children.

Anna Sparham: 21:20

It's about expanding the narratives of each of these places in a traditional sense, and in many cases, you know, collections are born from the family that might have lived at a property, or, in the case of, say, the hardman's House Studio in Liverpool, it's all about their business. It's life and home and their studio business. So, yeah, they're usually connected very directly to the property, but not always. If a photograph might appear that about the local community or the area, or perhaps around servant life, or, you know, in the case of Muhammad Ali, very much about expanding what it means to be a child, and the excitement around childhood, and in that case, around who are your heroes or heroines, you know? So I think that was the justification at that time for adding a particular work to a particular place. And I personally, you know, it's what I've always done in my career. I've supported acquisitions and really thought about, what does this new acquisition bring now, but what does it bring forever and in the future? And that's something that I certainly support and hope can happen increasingly so at the trust, as well as, of course, understanding what we already hold.

Angela Nicholson: 22:34

Obviously, some of the photographs, or a lot of the photographs in the collection, are extremely old. How do you balance that need to preserve them with the desire to display them?

Anna Sparham: 22:44

Yeah, it's a real it's a real challenge. I think in the past, pre, my role photographer, the photographs that we hold haven't been as displayed as much as you might expect. They've been reproduced and shared a little. But, yeah, it's always been, conservation is sort of the priority, and preservation is priority. What we do is hit that balance where we can so we mitigate as much as possible. Environmentally. You have to take your Lux readings, you have to present as carefully as you possibly can, and think about the hours you're displaying something, but the real priority is getting these photographs seen. And sometimes that means reproducing. Of course, it does and Digital Access. But my heart, of course, lies in getting people to appreciate and understand and enjoy the original objects where you can especially things like daguerreotypes. You know that, as you say, the early material, sometimes it's vulnerable, sometimes it's not. It depends on the material nature of the object. So even if you're only displaying something for three months, as long as you can do the most you possibly can with that and build some engagement around it, that's all good. We had, we still have, in fact, an exhibition at poles the Lacey of Alice Hughes platinum prints. And so they are like 10, 1900 and Platinums being so stable that they're they're good, they can go out on display. So they're up for six months. And it's wonderful to have people see original photographs. And for me, that's, you know, second nature. But for some people in a trust environment, that's quite new and quite novel. So that's gone down really well, great.

Angela Nicholson: 24:23

How long is that exhibition on for?

Anna Sparham: 24:23

I think it's till November. I think it's the beginning of November. I hope that's right, yeah, yeah, great.

Angela Nicholson: 24:33

Okay, well, I think that's a really good time to go to Six from SheClicks. Okay, I've got 10 questions from SheClickers, and I'd like you to answer six questions please by picking numbers from one to 10. So could I have your first number please?

Anna Sparham: 24:45

I'll go with number seven.

Angela Nicholson: 24:47

Number seven, this is an interesting one. In the pre digital era, the volume of photographs being taken was much lower, so any that survive feel more precious when put next to the high volume of the digital era, that is. For a National Archive. How do you go about selecting which images are added now, when you could be dealing with 1000s of similar images, rather than the in the olden days, when you just had a few? That's from Caroline.

Anna Sparham: 25:10

Every museum, every institution, has to be incredibly selective for very boring reasons, just like storage. But yeah, it's really difficult. I think for me, it's about how, if you're bringing in a new image, a new acquisition, it's about how it connects to the existing works, and what it truly says and can do for any messages we're trying to we're trying to engage with, any stories we're trying to engage with. So sometimes you can have incredibly beautiful, strong series of works. But it's, it really is about how it truly connects to that particular collection, existing collection, and how many different avenues, how many different stories it might convey. So, yeah, it is really hard. I mean, I would say it's, of course the numbers are completely different. Of course they are, but I've always been so keen to look at the broader editing process. So, you know, contact sheets have always been there in my exhibitions. They're my friend. I want people to see that you didn't just have, necessarily have these solar images like a daguerreotype. You had people producing film after film after film as well. So, yeah, it's, it's a really tricky one. I love that question. It's a forever problem for any current, contemporary curator. Of course, yeah,

Angela Nicholson: 26:27

I guess a lot of the images you get now, current images or new images are digital, so storage is slightly different.

Anna Sparham: 26:35

It is if you're a museum that's equipped to acquire digital born images and some museums are in the past. In the London museum, we were not quite at that stage when I was working there. And yeah, exactly. You know, you've got to not only supply the storage, you've got to continually migrate that technology and pay for and consider the environmental considerations as well. So it is, I mean, at one stage, we were acquiring digital, digitally created images, but ensuring we printed them, to have that preservation and to have the opportunity for display the print that the photographer approved of, etc. So yeah, it's a forever problem, but I'm sure some of the institutions will be will be dealing with that very differently, in the V and A for example,

Angela Nicholson: 27:27

okay, Pkay, can I have your second number please?

Anna Sparham: 27:29

Number three.

Angela Nicholson: 27:32

Have you ever uncovered a photo that completely changed your understanding of a place or a moment in history? That question is from Jeanette.

Unknown: 27:40

That's a lovely question

Anna Sparham: 27:45

I can think of, and this is literally from the top of my head I can think of one. So an exhibition I worked with and worked on with the photography of Christina Broom. She was a photographer of soldiers and suffragettes. That was effectively the title of the exhibition. And I know she's she was sort of renowned for being this photographer of the suffragettes. And therefore everyone assumed that she was a suffragette herself, or at least a suffrage supporter. And a lot of the research that I did led to realising that she wasn't necessarily, this was about her commercial practice. This was her ensuring that she had a business. So she would create these photographs and sell them to suffrage supporters. There's one particular photograph where she, in fact, it's on the wall behind me. She photographed women that had marched from across the country, and they came together to do this big pageant March, and they're all holding banners in support of suffrage campaign, but there's a man right in the centre of the photograph. Now, I'd only really seen this photograph as a glass plate negative, so first of all, you're having to register what you're looking at as a negative. Yeah, it was only when it was enlarged on screen digitally that you could read the board in the middle that the man's holding and he's anti suffrage, and it's things like that where you just, you know, you see the multi layers that are going on in this picture, whether she realised it or not. And I'd like to think, because he's right in the centre, perhaps she did realise, and she'd sort of place these two together. He's laughing. So there's this sort of edge to it. But yeah, it's, it's, it's that reminder you can never quickly look at a photograph historically. You've got to really interpret it, really look at the detail, and not make assumptions.

Angela Nicholson: 29:29

Oh, fascinating, right. Could I have your third number please?

Anna Sparham: 29:32

Number one.

Angela Nicholson: 29:36

Number one is there a national trust property that has the significance in history for photography, similar to Laycock Abbey or and Fox Talbot or Dimola Lodge and Julia

Anna Sparham: 29:48

Actually, okay, I would say hard the Hardman Margaret Cameron. That's another question from Jeanette. Studio in Liverpool. It's an obvious one in some ways, because it is. It's a house that belonged to two photographers. They ran their commercial studio practice their. Yeah, but I think it's a good example of how trust properties are not always, you know, the country house model. So Hardman's house in Liverpool, it's a mid century studio preservation of both their home life and their studio practice. And we hold 150,000 plus photographs and business archive records off site at Liverpool Record Office, and we're doing tonnes of work to kind of really draw out the many layers and stories that that collection holds. And it's, it's significant because it's, you know, an intact, completely intact studio collection. It tells you how the business was running when it was failing. You know, where the challenges were for those photographers, where their life overlaps with work, and the sort of measures they took, the commercial decisions, all sorts of things, and their fascination in photography as a field, personally as well as commercially. So yeah, there's so much I think, that that can that can throw upon photo history, how it connects with other studios, but also just how it connects to ordinary people and you know, going to pose for your photograph in a studio. So yeah, really important one.

Angela Nicholson: 31:08

That sounds like a great venue for a SheClicks meetup.

Anna Sparham: 31:11

Definitely,

Angela Nicholson: 31:12

I'll definitely to sort that out.

Anna Sparham: 31:13

Yes.

Angela Nicholson: 31:14

Okay, your fourth number please.

Anna Sparham: 31:16

Number two,

Angela Nicholson: 31:21

We all have personal preferences when it comes to photography. You've created a lot of different exhibitions for different organisations. How difficult is it to put your own preferences to one side when selecting photographs of these? That question is from Helen. That's a lovely question. Yeah, it's, it is, well, I see it as you're always or every curator is going to bring their own stamp to something, bring their own subjective selection process to it, to some extent. But for me, you've always got to put the visitor at the forefront. And a lot of the places I've worked at not exclusively, but a lot of them, the exhibition is most likely aimed at a non specialist. So for me, it's always been, if I'm choosing a photograph, what's it going to say? Am I not being too clever? I don't need to be too clever. What's this sequence show? What does this individual photograph convey to a non specialist? That's my priority. And as I mentioned earlier, I think a lot of that has been also in getting people excited around the material qualities of a photograph. So, as I say, always put contact sheets in where I can, or glass negatives. It's getting people to think about how and why this photograph was created, and enjoying that. And perhaps more than me saying, Oh, I love that photograph of a tree, you know. So it's you do have to put it to one side, but it's inevitable that it's part of it. And as long as long as you've got that, that visitor in mind, at the forefront, then nine, what is the most memorable acquisition that's all. That's a good magic I think. you've been involved in? That question's from Liz.

Anna Sparham: 32:58

Ooh, so many. I'm going to run with a photographer called Bob Collins, who was a 1950s 1960s photographer, and I think it was his nephew that sort of arranged a meeting with me at the London Museum, very much with a not the assumption that I must take this collection on. It was more of, oh, I don't know if you'll be interested. You know, almost apologetic to get in touch. And it was the most remarkable set of photography negatives. There were largely negatives, and then eventually came prints as well, beautiful, beautiful shots in London, largely street photography, to all the beat clubs, all sorts of things that he was really into. And it was just wonderful to see the transition of these negatives that had been, you know, they were slightly smelly. They stored in a box in the loft his his uncle had long since died, taking that acquisition on. And the work of going through and cataloguing and really building that up through to exhibition is something that is always so satisfying. Because I remember him, the donor, walking into the room and seeing this exhibition and being absolutely stunned. I thought he didn't like it, but he was just like, motionless. He couldn't speak.

Angela Nicholson: 34:25

Oh, wow.

Anna Sparham: 34:25

So there's things like that where you think, actually this would have ended up, I don't know where, and now I'm seeing it repeatedly, seeing it actually on social media, being really shown in you. So that's enjoyable. Christina broom was another one. I have to say, we really added to our collection there and and for me, that was so much more on a personal level, so much more than just adding an acquisition of significance. It meant that I was really able to explore a woman photographer and her history biographically, as well as her work. So that really kick started a lot for me. But yeah, it's so so lovely to know that you've played a part. Art anyway, and just getting some collections preserved for in perpetuity, and hopefully people get to see them.

Angela Nicholson: 35:07

I imagine you must find goosebumps when the owner of those pictures saw his uncle's work in the exhibition.

Anna Sparham: 35:12

Yeah, I was initially, I just thought, my God, he hates it. He hates what I've done. And then he sort of stepped away and said, I just need a few moments, you know. And I realised he was so emotional, I don't think I'd ever encountered someone, you know, because often an acquisition might be a living photographer, and they're thrilled to have their work in the collection. Of course they are, but it's a different sort of response. So I wasn't ready for that. But yeah, it was. It was a reminder of how you know, preserving these these works are.

Angela Nicholson: 35:45

Okay, right. So your final number, please? What is the part of your job that you think

Anna Sparham: 35:49

I'll go in number eight. someone's been most surprised about that question is from Liz, most surprised. yeah, I probably, probably liaise with 100 people a week, you know, just within the trust, I mean.

Angela Nicholson: 37:05

So it's more social than a lot of people might think?

Anna Sparham: 37:09

I think that's it. It's not, yeah, you're not in a store. I don't have a store now, so if I am visiting a store, yes, you'll have that, you'll have that. But yeah, you are right. It is far more social and far more engaging, I think, than people might anticipate.

Angela Nicholson: 37:23

Oh, fabulous. Well, Anna, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. It's been really fascinating hearing from you.

Anna Sparham: 37:29

Thank you so much. It's a quite novel thing to talk about your work and not just be doing it. So yeah, really enjoyed it.

Angela Nicholson: 37:35

Great. You're very welcome. Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks women in photography podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. Special. Thanks to everybody who sent in a question. You'll find links to Anna's social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook X Instagram and YouTube if you search for sheclicksnet, so until next time, enjoy your photography.