Lizzie Shepherd: 0:00

I think some of the 'Wow' photographs initially you think, Gosh, amazing, but then there isn't that added depth to it. I don't necessarily feel it needs to be amazing light. Because I think sometimes some of the less spectacular like for certain types of imagery can work incredibly well.

Angela Nicholson: 0:23

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. This episode is with Lizzie Shepherd, who is a landscape nature and travel photographer, based in Yorkshire in the UK. Lizzie is a frequent contributor to photographic magazines, and a regular competition judge. She also offers workshops and tuition, and is a Fotospeed Ambassador. Hi, Lizzie, thank you so much for joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It seems like a lifetime since we bumped into each other in the amateur photographer office in the lift.

Lizzie Shepherd: 1:07

Yes, I think it was a lifetime ago. But ya no, it's lovely, lovely to join you and to see you.

Angela Nicholson: 1:14

Thank you. Thank you. Yes, a lot of things have changed since then.

Lizzie Shepherd: 1:17

Yes.

Angela Nicholson: 1:19

Now, I usually like to start these podcasts by hearing from the guest how they got involved in the photographic industry. So perhaps you could tell me a little bit about your journey into photography, at what point you realized that photography was going to be the career for you?

Lizzie Shepherd: 1:34

Well, funnily enough, I actually when I left university, initially, I wanted to be a photographer, I wanted to be a travel photographer really, but I kind of started off working for a few studio photographers in Edinburgh, just because that was some work experience I could get. And then I met my husband. And I thought, Well, I'm not sure I really want to be away traveling all the time, I'm not not very good at sort of being quite that independent. So I kept doing a few jobs for commercial photographers and stuff. But I kind of felt, I guess I probably didn't want it badly enough to be honest at that stage. So I just kind of opted to do normal jobs, and then kept doing it, you know, in my holidays, and whatever. But I'd say not. So not that seriously, it was very much radical holiday pictures. And I've done quite a bit of people photography at university. And now I don't pick up people at all. So I kind of I guess with the traveling stuff became more landscape oriented. And then I can't remember exactly kind of how it all came about. But I remember outdoor photography, there was an article on a chap called Steve Day who had just died, I remember just reading about him and leaving his job and going for, you know, pursuing photography and thinking, gosh, you know, you don't want to leave these things too late. So I think I just gradually started, you know, doing like writing a few articles for the magazine and, and things like that, really, and then gradually built it up. I got voluntary redundancy, which helped. And I probably took a while to get things going as well as I should have. But eventually, I kind of built things up to where I am now, I guess.

Angela Nicholson: 3:13

What did you study at university?

Unknown: 3:15

I studied English.

Angela Nicholson: 3:17

Okay, so not photography.

Lizzie Shepherd: 3:18

No. But I guess that's been useful for sort of the writing side of things. But I always liked doing photography. And I guess it was just, it was something that just I guess gradually cooled to me more and more, but there wasn't sort of some kind of moment where suddenly everything kind of clicked. And I very much had to sort of force myself to be a bit more pushy, if I can gradually build things up, because I'm naturally really not that way at all. So I think it took me a while to kind of have the confidence to do that. And certainly a long time really, before I had the confidence to do things like workshops. So yes, it was it was just gradual.

Angela Nicholson: 3:53

Yeah. Did you have any formal training in photography at all? Or are you entirely self taught?

Lizzie Shepherd: 3:58

Entirely self-taught way back when I did do a few sort of evening classes and stuff, but nothing unit very full time or anything? So yes, just gradually, over the years kind of picked things up and kind of worked out, I guess, my own sort of direction?

Angela Nicholson: 4:13

Yeah. I think if you have formal training, it kind of makes it easier to launch yourself into a career because you've got those end points of, you know, various bits of training stopped at all your, you know, completed, or you set yourself another target to do another module or something, and then you complete that. And then there's sort of a logical progression. But if you are a hobbyist, there's a tendency to continually want to improve and there's no end point to that improvement. Is that

Lizzie Shepherd: 4:39

No,

Angela Nicholson: 4:41

I mean, I think you and I both agree. We're both still learning.

Lizzie Shepherd: 4:43

Yeah, no, absolutely. No, that there definitely isn't. I think one of the things that helped me I know at one point, my husband's sort of job was a bit sort of sketchy and we weren't quite sure what was going to happen with that and I kind of that almost kind of made me have to be a bit more pushy because I just didn't know what was happening with him. So I think that helps always Just needs must kind of thing. And with the workshops, you know, I really had no intention of doing them. It was really only when Alex, my business partner for workshops got in touch with me about, you know, Japan see meeting up and talking about doing a workshop in Northern Greece, which took along that particular one took a long time to come to fruition. But that also, I think it helped, you know, having somebody to do it with

Angela Nicholson: 5:21

Yes, having someone else ask you, but also the fact that they clearly believe that you can do it, and also they can share part of the load. That's, that's a real incentive to do that kind of thing, isn't it?

Lizzie Shepherd: 5:31

Yeah, no, absolutely. For the workshop side of things that definitely helped. And, you know, I was doing other bits and bobs as well, I don't really know. But I used to do few commercial jobs, just, I guess things were people. Probably actually some of those came about from when I was displaying work at sort of exhibitions, or the old fare and stuff I used to do in the earlier days. So a few jobs through that. And I did use to do kind of some of these weekend Fairs and things but I came to the conclusion that particularly in the north, there were there were more work than result if you like, so I ended up sort of stopping doing those. But then, you know, obviously, I ended up having work in the Joe Cornish Gallery, which was was wonderful. Well, it lasted. Yeah, which was over 10 years. So you know that that was great. And a real order? Yeah, it was kind of a mixture of things. And obviously, the writing. I haven't done so much writing of late. But I used to, I used to write a lot for outdoor photography, and obviously various other magazines, as you knows, something I should probably do a bit more of again. But it's like all these things, you kind of you get into the habit of doing Yes. And then you you get busy with other things. And then you sort of need to kind of get back in there if you like.

Angela Nicholson: 6:39

Yeah. You mentioned that your your husband's job became a bit uncertain at one point, and that made you steal yourself and start thinking more seriously about your photography, did you actually sit down and plan anything out what you that you were going to do?

Unknown: 6:52

No, I it was more just kind of, I guess making myself put myself out there a bit more than stopping. So sort of shy and retiring. More that really, you know, it's it's bit of a family thing, none of us are probably very good at kind of putting ourselves out there. So.

Angela Nicholson: 7:10

So how did you find your first clients? Did they generally all come to you? Or did you actually seek some out? Gosh, that was a very good question. I'm trying to actually remember, I think it was it was a combination, I think. I mean, social media wasn't what it is now back then. But it was a bit of a thing. So some, some were through that. Some were through, you know, people I sort of knew maybe through through my sort of previous work as well, maybe it was just a combination, really. And it was a bit of a slow burner to start with. But then, you know, thankfully, the people that came on the internet in terms of the workshops anyway, like, you know, liked it and enjoy this. And so, you know, either they would come back to other places, or they'd tell their friends or whatever. And oh, yes, of course. And I also started doing talks again, a long time ago now. But that, yeah, that was one of the things that I was never, ever going to do talk. And then one of the camera clubs asked me, and I thought, Well, I'll say yes. And I thought, I'll go and do it. And if it's really awful, I'll just sort of give them their feedback, and give up on the idea. But it went okay, so, yes, again, I don't do as many talks as I used to do, but that Yeah, so I guess a few came from that maybe? And then it just is kind of word of mouth, isn't it, really I think. Yeah. Now that it's your profession, rather than a hobby? Do you enjoy your photography as much? Or did you prefer it as a hobby?

Lizzie Shepherd: 8:29

Very good question. Difficult, I think, I guess I enjoy it maybe in different ways. I think maybe it's the way things have changed a lot. Now, you know, there's, there's a big thing with, you know, social media has become bigger and bigger, and YouTube and all that sort of thing, which I just don't do at all. And I think, to a degree, some of it's become more about the, almost the personality system and the photography, and I guess that side of things I struggle with a bit because, because it's just, it's just not the way I kind of see it, certainly kind of get frustrated, maybe by that side of things a bit. But equally, you know, I love what I do. And the workshops, you know, just met so many wonderful people in it's just a real honor really to to do that. And likewise, for things like you know, print sales. It's always lovely when people come back. So you know, there's a lot that's really, really positive, I guess, at times, you know, you can kind of feel a bit pressurized, and, you know, looking behind your shoulder if you like, but I mean, I still love it.

Angela Nicholson: 9:27

When you're out in the landscape, taking photographs or capturing photographs, do forget any pressures and managed to enjoy your photography, and you it's just you in the moment, or does that play a part that you know, is at the back of your mind?

Lizzie Shepherd: 9:40

No, absolutely. No. I mean, that's, you know, one of the things I love most about photography is just being out there and just getting immersed in it. And just, I mean, for me, I think it's the way it makes you see and observe so much that I don't think I would have done otherwise. So no, absolutely love it.

Angela Nicholson: 9:57

I know you're not a fairweather photographer. In fact, possibly the opposite, do you feel more compelled to go out in tough conditions as a professional? Or does it make you a bit more picky about the weather conditions, because you want to get the light just right. So you wait for it?

Unknown: 10:14

Oh, that's a tricky one. It will vary, sometimes I will kind of wait for some conditions that I hope will materialize. Although the the weather forecast these days can be pretty iffy. Sometimes I'll just think, right, I need to go out. And I've got a time I can do it. So I will. I mean, I'm not one really to wait for conditions when I'm out so much. So I just like to sort of go for a wander and see what I can find, really, and just enjoy being there.

Angela Nicholson: 10:42

You run group workshops, and one to one tuition. Do you have a preference? Or did they both bring different things?

Lizzie Shepherd: 10:49

Yeah, I think they can both be lovely. I mean, I think the group ones, you know, generally speaking can be lovely, because it's typically, I mean, I do a few one day ones, but it's usually over a period of time. So you get that kind of, you know, wrap party and you get to know somebody better, and you get to know what they want better, and you're able to work with them more longer term. Whereas for a sort of one day one or a one to one, typically, you know, it's much more limited period of time. So it will depend. I mean, I've had some really super one to ones this spring with people who just really just kind of seem to embrace everything and really want to learn sometimes I think I've had ones where somebody's been given one as a present. And that was actually the case for tomb this time. But they were all, in fact, loathe three of them. But they were all really, really keen and really wanted to do it. But I've had some in the past where I wasn't sure it was necessarily the right precedent for the person and neither this nor that they, you know, they didn't enjoy it, but you just kind of feel it, their hearts not totally in it. Because you know, you can, with all the best in the world, you can spend a day with somebody, but you know, they then got to go away and put that into practice. And there are some people you know, they will others maybe not.

Angela Nicholson: 12:02

Yeah, I think you have to be in the right frame of mind. And part of that, I suppose, is making the selection process of which tutor you're going to go to which workshop you're going to attend. All of that really focuses you in whereas you've given a voucher. For workshop, it's it's a bit more of a leap, isn't it?

Lizzie Shepherd: 12:18

Yes, I think I think it can be anyway, as I say, you know, all the ones recently that definitely wasn't the case. But But I just do go in past occasionally. And I'll actually now when when somebody else I'll do kind of quizzle quite hard about, you know, what they think the person wants to surf just to check that it's the right thing, because I think it's really important to know that, that that that is the direction somebody wants to take

Angela Nicholson: 12:42

Well it's also possible that they've left their computer screen open on your booking page around their birthday time and made sure their partners seen it. Sometimes there's a bit of direction involved.

Lizzie Shepherd: 12:55

Oh, yes, no, definitely. That, certainly, that has been the case with some for sure.

Angela Nicholson: 12:59

Do you ever get people on your workshops just looking at it like you're mad when you say Right, let's you know, let's go out and they're looking at the weather thinking really? Are they all really into it and go out with you anyway?

Lizzie Shepherd: 13:11

Most, most of them will come out anyway either without that, but there's been the odd person who's decided that absolute stare odd rain isn't there thing before breakfast we did our first morning in Greece last year was was quite funny, because we're in this village where to walk up to the car, and there was actually thunder and lightning not too far away. It was absolutely pouring down. And we thought this is mad. But we've all got up. And we thought, well, let's go you know, you never know it might be different, where we were going. And we did actually get a bit of really, really fun weather and sort of conditions that we could work with. So, you know, it felt crazy, but it worked out. And everyone came.

Angela Nicholson: 13:50

I wonder if you should perhaps define fun weather?

Unknown: 13:54

Well, no, actually, I mean, it was it was a little bit windy, and it was a bit wet. But there was a lovely kind of low cloud floating around and a little bit of light. So it was very, very atmospheric. And that we weren't we weren't there was no lightning at that point. I'm not one for for being in rocky terrain with lightning around obviously not a good idea.

Angela Nicholson: 14:13

No, not ideal. Okay, that you're a keen printer.

Lizzie Shepherd: 14:17

Yes.

Angela Nicholson: 14:18

And you're a Fotospeed ambassador. What is it that you like so much about doing your own printing?

Unknown: 14:23

I think is just the fact that something a photograph in print compared to on a screen is just so much lovelier to look at. And the fact you can actually sort of hold hold the thing as well. Obviously, the different types of paper I always print on matte papers. So I find that you it can look quite sort of painterly, I guess the combination of the fact that I tend to photograph in quite sort of soft on the whole often quite low contrast like that in the matte paper. People who aren't photographers will quite often think they're paintings, not not photographs. And I think yeah, for me, it's an I also think that when you look Get to print, you can sometimes notice something that you don't on the screen. So it can be a good way of, of just deciding what you really feel about that photograph. And, you know, obviously, it's lovely when you do get the chance to display the ad even lovely when when people do buy them. Because I always feel it's such an honor if somebody chooses to spend their hard earned money on on something you've created. So that's a real, a real treat. But it's something I started doing very early, very early on. So I've been printing for years and years and years.

Angela Nicholson: 15:33

But why specifically do you choose to print yourself rather than send them off to a lab?

Unknown: 15:38

ah, oh, that's probably just sort of control freak side really, it's the fact that you've just got complete, complete control of it all. Fair enough. And, you know, you can do it when you like, and if you do want to make a few tweaks, you can, I know, some people sort of feel that if you've got it all set up, right, you should just build a printer. And that's that, but, you know, there's always little tiny improvements you can make, you know, even if it's absolutely fine as it is. So it's just nice having that, that ability to do that. And I guess, if you're selling enough, which I've been lucky enough to do over the years, you know, I'm not a not a big big seller, but I've sold enough to, you know, to make it well worth my while having my own printer, and so on. So, that also I think is worthwhile. And also because you can obviously you can choose any any paper you want, which not isn't the case everywhere. Although I mean, I do now just pretty much exclusively use fotospeed papers. And I mean, I could, you know, get them as guests potentially to do them for me if I wanted, but I have in the past ones that were too big for me to do, but I just, I just like to, to have the control of it here and, and to be able to see it coming off. It's not quite like in the dark room. But it's yours still got that bit of excitement as you kind of watch it come out seeing Yeah, but so long as you haven't done something daft or you've forgotten as I did the other day that you're, you've updated your MacOS and the colors are will go on funny. But generally speaking, it's good fun to see it coming off.

Angela Nicholson: 17:10

I guess there must be a certain amount of satisfaction as well, as somebody orders your print, you make the print, you put it in an envelope or a box or whatever you send it in, and then you send it off. You actually feel like they've done it rather than just seeing a number pop up on a website and know that a print has been sent for somebody.

Lizzie Shepherd: 17:25

Yes, absolutely. No, there is that nice. And you get, you know, on the whole, you know, not everyone gets back in touch. But I do get a lot of lovely feedback from people, which is also really, really special. And sometimes they'll send send me a picture once I've had it framed which is is lovely to see as well.

Angela Nicholson: 17:41

Yeah, that's nice. Now, you mentioned the Joe Cornish Gallery, which suddenly closed down last year. Do you have any plans for further exhibitions? Because obviously, you you had you're working there alongside some of Joe's and other photographers.

Lizzie Shepherd: 17:54

Yeah, no, I sort of I probably need to address it a bit. The truck troubles aren't that many cutter places relatively local to me. I did it for a while have some in a lovely gallery in Whitby that has largely the kind of paintings but it has a bit of photography in there. And they're lovely couple and they love my photography, but the trouble is, it just didn't sell well enough in Whitby, they said generally speaking, people just kind of didn't seem to want to spend money on that sort of photography. So it's, it's particularly in the north, I think, which is of course, sadly, one of the reasons I think, you know, the Joe Cornish gallery did come to an end Is it is it is very hard to, to sell that kind of work sort of consistently if you like. And there are a few places that I've sort of talked to before but I'm not convinced that the sort of photography I do is necessarily that well suited to many of them. I occasionally do things you know like Harlow Carr, which has a garden near Harrogate has a sort of shot gallery kind of place love sometimes people will take that over for a month so I've sometimes exhibited for events there and things like that which which often does go pretty well actually. So there's a few things like that we've just done opened our garden a few times as part of the sort of threesome in the village for the NGS and I thought I've got all this stuff leftover from from the Joe Cornish gallery so I might as well put it out because I've got a little studio I created ages ago when I tried doing North Yorkshire isn't Studios, which again, I just didn't get enough throughput for because I didn't have enough studios near me but I thought well I'll put them up for that. And as I suspected people who come to look at gardens aren't generally speaking on the market for buying photographs but you got a lot of nice comments and sold out card and I think one print so I thought I've got it there so I might as well. You know show it because I've got all the stock leftover.

Angela Nicholson: 19:55

So the best way for somebody who's interested in seeing some of your photographs and maybe buying apprentice for them to look at your website.

Lizzie Shepherd: 20:01

Yes, that's generally speaking now how I sell pretty much all all of the prints I sell now, thinking about it, actually, when you ask them about clients, so I definitely, I think, got a few clients from having my work and the Joe Cornish counted all those years in terms of workshop clients, as well, because people obviously become aware of you there. So that was another another sort of lead in if you like, and, you know, certainly a huge privilege to have to have had my work there for so long.

Angela Nicholson: 20:28

Now you judge a few photography competitions. I know from personal experience, how challenging that can be, especially when there are lots of entrance, what's your approach to judging a photographic competition?

Lizzie Shepherd: 20:41

Well, when I did LPOTY (Landscape Photographer of the Year) I was just doing the final rounds. So that wasn't, you know, too, too many. For that I would always go through them initially, just to have an overall look. And then I'd go back through school then. And then I'd go back through again, just to double check that I was as happy with with my choices.

Angela Nicholson: 21:03

We should probably point out at this point, for people who don't know, that LPOTY is Landscape Photographer of the Year.

Lizzie Shepherd: 21:09

Ah, yes. I'm actually judging, for the first time the Natural Landscape Photography Awards at the moment, which is, is really, really fun. I mean, the quality of imagery, its International is just mind blowing. There's some really a lot of really stunning work. And they've done the initial, the organizers do the kind of initial kind of filter if you like, so you're pretty much exclusively looking at high court very high quality photographs, which is rather rather enjoyable. And actually, they suggested a means of scoring, which I think is super, whereby you initially again, like like I have done at POTY initially just look through everything. So you get feel for what's there just quickly, and then they suggest initially, you kind of do a scoring from I think it's an ultra three by three, or will the ones that you think are the best ones that are possibilities. And then you you go to those and you decide the ones that you think are potentially good enough to be in the book will give them a four and then you go and give a few that your absolute favorites or five. And I found that a really helpful way of doing it because it just helps you. I guess we weed out the ones which they're all really good, but aren't quite as good. And then it's, it's easier, I think, to look at that slightly smaller. One a lot smaller selection. And you know, they're all ones that you you really like and it just makes it a lot easier, I think to to pinpoint that absolute favorites. So I think that works really well. So I don't know if that's sort of similar to something you've done a lot in the past.

Angela Nicholson: 22:43

Yes, similar sort of thing. I think it is a good idea to go through, and there's some competition I've been involved in. Generally, if you're judging a particular category, I will try and do that category in one sitting. Yes. So that I've got the memory of everything. Yes, agree. Yes, absolutely. But if they're huge, obviously, that can be quite, quite tricky. But you find yourself you know, initially, okay. And then you see a while picture, and you have to kind of recalibrate your brain start thinking, Okay, so now that in your case that you were talking about the first round, you give three, so that will be a three. And suddenly, there might have been some others that were threes, but really, they're now twos and go through like that. But yeah, I mean, it's, I find it very inspiring. He can be quite daunting when there are so many pictures, but it's also very inspiring, and it gives me lots of ideas, things I'd like to do not necessary to rush off to the same place and date the photograph, but you know, the styles and things like that I find very inspiring.

Lizzie Shepherd: 23:39

Yes. Yes. And also, yes, just seeing, particularly with it being, not not that the UK doesn't have a lot of wonderful places, but obviously seeing pieces from all over the world. As somebody that loves travel, you know that that's fascinating seeing some of these places? And also Yeah, I mean, it just not that I didn't know already from from the many, you know, super clients who have come up workshops over the years, but you just realize how many, how many really good photographers are out there? Yeah, there's a lot of very, very good work. A lot of very good, talented people out there, which is very inspiring. Sometimes what sort of makes you think a bit will help as well, but...

Angela Nicholson: 24:20

There are so many strands to your business. How do you balance that you know, and still find time to do photography in a way that is satisfying to you?

Lizzie Shepherd: 24:29

Well, I think I guess, now, obviously, I said don't really do any commercial work anymore. If somebody came and asked me to do something, if it was something I was comfortable doing, or I felt was within my skill set. I would I'm afraid I don't know, in the older days I would occasionally do portraits I just I don't do that now because I'm just it's just not me and and I don't think I'm good enough at it to be honest. So I'll sort of you know, I'll pick and choose a bit I'm going to do quite a lot of property for typography in a one stage but I probably will wouldn't. And that I think was possibly Yeah, through some sort of exhibition initially, bizarrely, but I wouldn't probably tend to do much of that now unless it was very sort of specific reason. So I guess for those who do jobs, it wants to be something that I've, that I guess I've, I feel I'm gonna get a little bit of inspiration out of, I've done something for a local furniture maker a few times, or he also restores furniture. And that's lovely, because they're just, you know, amazing, beautiful pieces. So it's nice to, you know, it kind of fits with my mindset, I guess, a couple of years back also, I did a few jobs to the Northfield malls National Park, which was lovely to do and, but there was another thing that came up that I just felt was too far out of my skill set. And maybe this is me, not being as sort of ambitious and goal hope as I should be. But I just, I felt the combination of that, and it would have involved a bit more travel that I felt was right, because I thought somebody closer, shouldn't should be doing it. I said, Look, I don't think this is mold for me to tell tender for, but it was nice, to be honest. So those sort of things, you know, can be quite few and far between. and print sales have definitely been a bit quieter the last year or so sadly, with the workshops, I think the biggest challenge now is we need some, we've got people who've been everywhere with us, and some places more than once. And we definitely need some new new locations and new themes. But you know, that takes time, and quite often money to set up. So it's not an easy thing, just to say, right? Yeah, we're gonna do this. And in fact, we had one workshop that we thought we were going to do. And in the end, we put quite invested quite a lot of in terms of researching it, and we just felt it wasn't going to work how we wanted it to work. So you know, even though you probably could have sold plenty places on it for us, it's really important that it kind of fits, you know, the way we like to work and the experience we want to deliver. So it's very important that that it's got to be something that we feel is right,

Angela Nicholson: 26:59

I guess, particularly if you're going to be going back there a few times with different clients as well, you don't want to feel any, in any way. You're not so much that you're shortchanging them, but you're not fully feeling the location, I suppose.

Lizzie Shepherd: 27:11

Yeah, or I mean, in this case, it was much down here, it was just the logistics and just too many options for things and perhaps not to be to work out quite how you wanted. And it's just, you know, and particularly as it did, it involves going abroad, you know, that adds adds a whole other layer of complexity as well. So you've, you know, I think it's so important to be sure that you can in obviously that there are things you can never legislate for, but you want to be able to deliver what you believe you should be delivered.

Angela Nicholson: 27:42

Okay, well, I think that's a great point to go to Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from some SheClickers. And I would really like you to answer six of them by picking numbers from one to 10, please. So could I have your first number?

Lizzie Shepherd: 27:56

Okay. Three.

Angela Nicholson: 28:00

Number three. Do you have a favorite place to photograph somewhere that you keep going back to? And that was asked by several people.

Lizzie Shepherd: 28:08

Definitely a few and favorites. I've I mean, I've always said sort of for as long as I can remember that my favorite area which is I say air it's a country really is Scotland, but specifically I guess the sort of the Highlands and Islands. And obviously I go back because we want to say obviously not not everyone would know that but we were a lot of workshops on Harrison Lewis so I go back there a lot and there is something very magical about photographing there, although it doesn't have trees really. And I love trees. So but I've got a few few I've got a few favorites locally and typically those will be quite old, messy woodland areas that I I love visiting which are sort of you know locked to bigger drive. I can't I don't feel one should just try for miles and miles and miles on a regular basis because it just feel it's it's wrong but but there's a couple of words that I I always love going back to So yeah, several paces but not not just the one but I definitely do enjoy going back to them a lot. Okay, can I have your second number place? To Do you have a bucket list of places that you'd like to explore that question is from Mari-Ange. I mean, yes, I'm some of them probably will never happen but places that I would love to go to one day, which I think probably will. One day is New Zealand I'd love to go to and Tasmania. I mean, I'm sure the rest of Australia is great as well, but particularly Tasmania. So I'm hopeful to get there one day. Other places that haven't, I'd love to go to Greenland. I'd love to go back to loads of the places I've been to. In theory, I'd love to go to Antarctica, but I suspect I won't ever get there the combination of cost and time and and whatever it's I suspect it's unlikely but No, I mean, it would be an amazing experience. If I ever did that SAS the probably the one I'd like to go to that I think I'm least likely to go to, if that makes sense.

Angela Nicholson: 30:10

Yeah. Can I have your third number please?

Lizzie Shepherd: 30:13

Okay, I'll go for, seven.

Angela Nicholson: 30:15

Number seven. What makes a landscape photograph a winner in a photography competition or awards? And that question is from Renata.

Lizzie Shepherd: 30:24

Right. Well, I would say this, this is unavoidably subjective. So for me, I guess I want something that, you know, we're talking about Wow. Photos earlier, it doesn't necessarily have to be an initial Wow. But it has, I guess, it's got to have something that will initially just kind of make me want to look at it further, obviously, it's got us make me feel something. Got it maybe intrigued me a wee bit. It could be, you know, one, that's just wow, absolutely amazing. But I like, typically, like things that will make me think a bit maybe have to work a little not too hard, but work a little just to, and a photograph that will really sort of invite me in and make me you know, maybe want to be there or want to explore there or just something that will basically spark her spark a bit of emotion and really make me want to know more about it and want to keep looking at it. And I think some of the Wow, photographs initially think, Gosh, amazing. But then there isn't that added depth to it. I don't necessarily feel it needs to be amazing light. Because I think sometimes some of the less spectacular light for certain types of imagery can work incredibly well. I am a sucker for a good composition. But again, that is very subjective. And there are you know, I know, just from having been looking through things recently that sometimes the ones where you can't quite put your finger on why the composition works. So well. Sometimes it's obvious that the sometimes there's just something an intangible, and I think sometimes you can't always explain exactly what it is. But there's just something that you know, really, really appeals and draws you in. But that's the sort of slightly, you know, subjective side of things, because it won't necessarily be the same for everyone. And I know once it comes to the final judging for the for the one I'm doing now, you know, there will definitely be some, some very differing views on things. But that's, you know, that's the nature of the beast, obviously.

Angela Nicholson: 32:20

Yes, that is quite funny, actually, I think sometimes when you have those conversations where there's an image that you think is amazing, and other people have skipped by, and you said, Why can't you see it? Yes. And then they're talking about an image that they think's amazing. And you can't? Yeah, you know, it's quite good, but it's not as good as the one I love.

Lizzie Shepherd: 32:39

No, I know. But I mean, that that's always going to be the case, isn't it?

Angela Nicholson: 32:43

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think what you were talking about, you know that the intangibles, things that you just, you're not quite sure what it is, but you really love the image. Those tend to be the images that come to me, you know, other times, you know, for dog walk with my partner, and I'll be telling him about an image that I thought was amazing, or, you know, I'm just thinking about it in the bath or something like that they you can remember them.

Lizzie Shepherd: 33:05

Yes, definitely the case. And it can be quite hard sometimes to articulate with some of them, as I said, you can say, Oh, well, it's because of this, that and the other but, but there definitely are pictures. And I have that with, you know, one or two my own favorites, where I can't actually really tell you why I like it. But I just, it just works for me. And I think sometimes you have to accept that, that. That just that can be so that it just speaks to you for some reason. And if it speaks powerfully enough, and it's going to be a contender, I guess. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 33:34

Can I have your fourth number please?

Lizzie Shepherd: 33:37

I'll go for eight. Number eight. Now Penny says I was very sorry to see the Joe Cornish gallery closed. Your work has been on show for a number of years along with Joe's as galleries are becoming a rarer space to find. What advice would you give to photographers wanting to exhibit their work? Gosh,

Angela Nicholson: 33:54

It's quite a tough one.

Lizzie Shepherd: 33:55

That is a very tough one. Yes. I'm not sure how qualified I am to answer that either. I mean, what I would say is, you know, certainly it, it does depend you see on the your style of photography as well because I know that some of these events that I try and doing I know other photographers who whose work I love, but it isn't the same as mine did well, where I didn't and that can be all downhill. So it can be the style of your photography, it can be the pricing obviously as well. I think if you live somewhere where there are you know, things like North Yorkshire Open Studios, for example, in my case, if I lived somewhere where I had lots of other studios open near to me, I would definitely think that was a good option to do when I did it. I got you know, I kind of I certainly breakeven if you like, but it was an awful lot of work for not enough visits. And that's simply down to the where I am, you know, I'm not in the middle of nowhere, but I just like if I lived in one of the towns you're Harrogate or something like that. I think, you know, I would definitely do it because I think I would get enough visitors that it would, it would be worthwhile. So I think if you live somewhere where there are other places nearby Then then things like the Open Studios is, is a good bet I was I don't know if they still exist when I first started exhibiting when we, in first not first moves to Yorkshire, but when I first started doing photography more seriously, I exhibited with a group called brigantia. And it was a mixture of different types of artists, photographer, jewelers all sorts, and there'd be things at various events, and you kind of maybe have a day on duty, and then somebody else will be on duty the other days. And, and so if I don't, I'm sure there must still be things like that that happened. So I guess those are the things I think for galleries. It's a tricky one. I mean, sometimes there can be things like you know, hospitals, dentists, doctors, whatever you might want to have your work up, whether you're going to sell. And here's another matter. So depends, I guess whether you want people to see your work, or if you actually want to make some money out of it.

Angela Nicholson: 35:54

Yes, yes, that's a very good point. Oh, cafes can be very good. But if you're in a tourist area, then they're likely wanting the pictures of that area. Yes. But equally, people don't tend to go into a cafe for a cup of tea and it's gone. But the intention of spending a lot of money. So it may have to price accordingly.

Lizzie Shepherd: 36:10

No, absolutely. And again, I think how close it is to a lot as well as because I had a cafe that got in touch with me, I think it was just before lockdown. I can't remember exactly where they were, but they weren't, they were probably the best part of an hour away from me. And I just felt it just wasn't going to be good. Because you know, you don't know what's going to work there. So you're gonna want to be able to go in and change it around. And it's just, it needs to be close enough, I think for something like that again.

Angela Nicholson: 36:35

Okay. Right. Could we have your penultimate number, then please,

Lizzie Shepherd: 36:38

I will go for gfive, have I said five yet?

Angela Nicholson: 36:41

You haven't said five.

Lizzie Shepherd: 36:43

Okay.

Angela Nicholson: 36:43

Okay, ah this is an interesting one. Mary says much of your photography has wonderful calming tones that complement the overall collections. They're beautiful. Can you give any tips on processing the colors to get a fabulous balance in tones?

Lizzie Shepherd: 36:57

Gpsh, well thank you for the kind words. First of all, it's a very sort of ended, people do often ask me about my processing. And I do, I think I touched on it earlier, I do tend to not go for a lot of contrast be that the conditions I'm photographing in, this isn't always the case, obviously, but a lot of the time, or whether that's where I process so I, I, for example, will often use quite a bit of it, I'll lift the shadows a bit, I will, I'll sometimes vary slightly just reduce a character bit, so things aren't quite as it I guess it just soften things a bit, I think that kind of could add to the sort of the sort of perception of the tones. I mean, obviously, photographing in, in gentle light is always going to give you softer colors. So that side of things comes into it as well. And I don't like I probably never put sort of positive saturation in but I do, you know, sometimes I will, by adjusting the curves that I will that does in effect, bring in a bit of extra saturation. So sometimes, you know, I do one way or another, end up adding a bit in that I don't tend to go for very bright colors. But I think a lot also depends on the camera you use. I mean, one of the reasons I I kind of settled on Sony was because I liked the sensor, I liked the way it produces color. And it just seems to produce colors for that I really enjoy and feel comfortable with. And I know sometimes I've I've tried helping somebody process, a photograph that's been taken on another brand new camera, and some some of them have struggled sometimes to get kind of what I'm what I'm wanting, I guess because I'm not so familiar with that camera. So I think that definitely also makes a difference. But, you know, I think you've just got to, I guess, try and use all that the I use Lightroom. And sometimes I use Photoshop to finish things off. But it's, it's probably just trying to experiment with all the different things and seeing what will give you give you the sort of look you you like as well. I mean, the great thing is, obviously, it's all reversible. So you're not you should really feel able to say what if I do this? What if I do that? What will what will give you the look that you you like, but I know there are times when people have looked at the pitch and sort of said, well, we have what have you done to make it look like that. And particularly for some of the areas we go to Northern Greece with this kind of amazing woodland, and then I've set them well, you know, wait till you actually see it. And you'll see, it does actually look like that. So sometimes it's just, you know, because that's, that's the place or the conditions I've photographed in. So I don't know if that really totally answers the question, but

Angela Nicholson: 39:36

I think that's fair enough. Thank you. Okay, so your final number, then please

Lizzie Shepherd: 39:40

We'll go for 10 I know I haven't said that. Number 10. Do you plan your images or respond to the conditions? A bit of both. I'm not a great planner. yet. I see people who've clearly kind of worked out that the sun's just gonna come into a little arch here and there and do you know I will. I'll plan obviously, for workshops, obviously. You got planned quite a bit. Because you, you want to know you're taking some someone somewhere where you're, you've got a chance of getting X and Y conditions. But for my own sort of personal thing, unless it's a particular photograph I need to get for you, I don't know if it was for a commission or a book or something I generally liked to, you know, I guess I enjoy most kind of just going and having a wander and seeing what I can find. But I will, you know, there are certain places, you know, going to look good at certain times of year or, you know, if you get sort of frost or snow or whatever, so, I will plan and in that respect, but I'm definitely I consider myself sort of more of a reactor than a planner, I would say, unless there's a specific need to plan obviously, then that I will, yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 40:45

Are you looking for cues from the landscape or the vegetation to sort of trigger your photography for that day? Do you think?

Lizzie Shepherd: 40:51

Yes, you know, it might just be little details, or it might be sort of wider views. But yes, it's just things that jump out at you, so to speak, and just makes you want to try and find problems. Sometimes there'll be things that I love looking at, and there's, there's not really a photograph there. But it can be fun trying, and you don't always obviously succeed. And sometimes you might get back and think, What are you trying to do there. But other times, you know, you can you can surprise yourself and find that something you thought wasn't possible, actually, you've managed to get something you'd like to have. And I think, sometimes for those sort of pictures, you have to sit on them quite a while I do enjoy kind of, I liked, I'm not one of these people that likes to put things away for and not look at them. I know some people just won't look at them at all for ages, I can't do that slot. But I tend to have an initial look and settle. And then sometimes just whether it's because of time, or just because I can't quite decide, I'll just leave them and come back to them. And I've still got things like come back to from years ago, sometimes I've never fully gone through. And of course, you know, when you come back to something many years later, sometimes your tastes have changed and your perceptions have changed. So you see things quite differently.

Angela Nicholson: 42:00

Yeah, software's changed quite dramatically. So you can make selections much easier to you know, do some selective brightening or darkening and things like that. It's quite a bit more effective.

Lizzie Shepherd: 42:11

Yes, absolutely. I mean, the software, software has definitely improved enormously over the years. And obviously your own skills improve, you know, all the time, hopefully. So yes, there are, there are there's all sorts of different, I guess different reasons why you might go back to something and you know, things like particularly not that I take a lot of high ISO images, but and things like noise reduction have improved out of sight. So yes, I think it's good not to be too hasty with the delete button. And I know, in part sometimes I have. I've got things where I literally start wondering, did I actually go somewhere because I delete it. Just because I didn't think they were already good. Now. I think when did I go there? No. Did I go there? Who was? It's good to keep a few things just so you know, for sure when it was because it's just it's just interesting to

Angela Nicholson: 42:56

Yeah. Well, Lizzie, thank you so much for look back. answering all those questions. And for joining me today on this SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast.

Lizzie Shepherd: 42:59

Pleasure.

Angela Nicholson: 42:59

Thank you. Thank you. It was so good fun to chat. Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. And thank you to everyone who sent in a question. You'll find links to Lizzie's social media channels and website in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.