Ellie Rothnie: Embracing the Unpredictability of Wildlife Photography

Ellie Rothnie: 0:04

I never go out on a shoot thinking, this is the image I've got to get. I never think like that. I've got images in my mind that I'd like to get one day, but I just carry them around with me. So that if I'm ever in that situation where the weather's doing something or the habitat looks the way that I had it in my mind, then that's fantastic. But you can get really frustrated and downhearted if you go just for a day shoot, or even if you're going away for a week or two weeks, whatever, and you've got certain images that you desperately want to get, and they've got to be just so.

Angela Nicholson: 0:47

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. Our guest today is Ellie Rothnie a wildlife photographer and Canon ambassador who first picked up a camera as a young child, but had a career in marketing before becoming a professional photographer in 2007. Today, she travels the world photographing a wide range of species, but she has a particular love of Dalmatian pelicans. Hi, Ellie, thank you so much for joining me on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast today.

Ellie Rothnie: 1:27

Thank you very much. And it's great to be here.

Angela Nicholson: 1:30

Thank you. Now I understand you took your first steps in photography with your dad, when you were about eight and you spent time in the garden with him photographing hedgehogs. That sounds like a really lovely introduction to photography. But how did your love of it grow from there?

Ellie Rothnie: 1:44

I think from that point, you know, as I always describe myself as just a clicker. So I always had a camera. You know, probably what we see is a bit of a bridge camera these days, really. And I was just always the one taking the pictures wherever I went. If somebody was pointing a camera at me, I'd run away. I'd much prefer to be on the other side of the camera. And I was just doing this for many years, basically. And then it was back in 2004, so exactly 20 years ago now, and I was in Kenya and photographing a cheetah, quite a well known cheetah in those days called Kike, if you remember the Big Cat diaries at the time, and there was another photographer next to me in his own vehicle shooting on Canon. And we kind of got talking and he said 'Hop over. Do you want to have a go with the lens?' And at that time, I just got my first digital camera. So I got the(Canon EOS) 300D. And so I put my camera onto this lens, which was about 840 millimetre lens, right. And I looked through with this telephoto lens and this pro equipment. And I just thought oh my goodness, this is just amazing. And it just fired something in my psyche. Just stern talking to him all day, he said to me, you're really different Ellie, because you've stayed with one cheetah all day, as had he, everybody else is coming. They take few pictures and they leave. He said you're different. You're just watching, you're taking the photos. And at the end of the day, he just gave me a postcard. And it had his web address and this sort of thing written on there. I got home I Googled him. And it was Paul Souders, who is a very modest but a very well known wildlife photographer. And that was it. That just set something in my mind running. I was obviously working at the time, you know, I had a normal office job, but I've worked in marketing. And I was using basically my salary to buy equipment. Right. And pretty much one of the first things I bought was the 500 millimetre the Canon, the really big, heavy thing that I still got now and I still use it now. So it just shows you, you know how good this kit is? Good investment then. Oh, it was yeah, really good investment. And well, they always say don't they put your money in gloves. And I just started, you know, using the salary I was getting from my marketing job to gradually buy a lens here a lens there may be upgrading my camera body or a tripod, this sort of thing. And that was the start of the journey into serious photography.

Angela Nicholson: 4:35

But what really generous move by Paul to let you use his lens.

Ellie Rothnie: 4:39

Yeah, it's amazing. Very nice. Yeah, amazing. And I've still got that that image now you know, and it's a super, super image. And what a lovely guy we know just to give up his time like that, you know, just sort of chats and yeah, but yeah, as I say I had no idea who he was at the time.

Angela Nicholson: 4:58

And what is it about wildlife photography that pulled you in,

Ellie Rothnie: 5:02

Ah, I've always been an outdoor person. And in fact, my degree was in geography as a science, so natural sciences, and always just love being outdoors always loved animals, you know, people joke with me, I should have been a vet or something like that, because I just adore animals basically. And, you know, you've got the passion for photography, and at some point in your life, those two come together, and hence, you know, taking photographs of wildlife rather than landscapes or people or pets or something like that, you know, is, yeah, it just happened. I didn't, I didn't think about it, you know, I just walked into this really did it just, it just all came quite naturally.

Angela Nicholson: 5:46

Yeah, you had your own marketing business. And you had this, you know, boost from the photographer that you met, lent you his lens. But what was it that made you actually switch to become a professional photographer?

Ellie Rothnie: 5:59

Well, I was basically working as semi professional for quite a number of years, at the same time as working in an office in marketing. So if you like, I got two parallel careers going along, one that was pretty well bedded in. And then the other one, that was the wildlife photography side of things. And it got to a point where I no longer had any more holidays, where I could either work in wildlife photography, or do any more guiding. And that was a really big tipping point for me. Right. And that happened around 2015. So yeah, nine years ago, now, and then it was 2016, that I actually quit the office job and went full time into wildlife photography. And my job at that point was in photography was doing a lot of guiding, photographic guiding, and that was taking me, you know, to some amazing places really, where, where I could sort of provide tuition and, you know, guidance for a group of photographers. And, you know, as being asked to write at that point for magazines, you know, write blogs, this sort of thing. And I think just the workload built up to a point, yeah, you reach a tipping point. And you just think, pay, if I don't do it now and overwhelmed. And that's what made me make the decision, I think it was important to leave the bridges open, you know, because in my own mind, I left on good terms. And if I ever needed to go back, I could. And that was important, you know, just psychologically, to know that you weren't walking away from something that you'd been in for many years, and actually really enjoyed. You enjoyed that job. But, you know, it was important not to think that you'd shut the door on that, and that you could go back, but really, the rest is history. I haven't I haven't looked back, you know, I'm still in touch with all the old colleagues and this sort of thing. But I just haven't looked back, you know, since 2016,

Angela Nicholson: 8:05

I think it's really nice when you can make a move like that, that you say is, you know, it's a step in a direction. It's not a step away from something, it's a step to something else, there's quite a distinction, isn't there?

Ellie Rothnie: 8:17

There is there is a distinction. Yeah. And I think with, you know, what I've done, I've always done the photography for myself. And I think that's a really important point, certainly, for me, you know, I wasn't I wasn't taking images or going to different locations for anybody else other than myself. And it, didn't it, you know, it didn't put pressure on me, and it still doesn't put pressure on me. And I think this is a way that you can really develop your own creative style. You know, if you feel the image is right for you, and you feel it in your heart, it's the right thing, because there's always somebody out there who will love what you're doing. Yeah. You know, and there was a wonderful quote by Steve Jobs that sort of said, you know, if you want to please everybody in the world, we need to be an ice cream seller. And that's, that's basically it, you know, it's just being able to take these images for yourself, and enjoy the the experiences, you know, of being outdoors and with the wildlife, because, you know, you're lucky to see some amazing behaviours and this sort of thing, you know, so that's always been really important to me whilst I was working in the marketing and doing the photography, and then also just going full time.

Angela Nicholson: 9:35

Yeah. Was there a point where you actually start to think I am a wildlife photographer and is remember sort of being able to say that confidently?

Ellie Rothnie: 9:43

Gosh, that is a really good question. Gosh, how do I answer that? Well, yes, because you are being asked to write or you're being asked to video for example, and you know, there's your name and underneath it, it says wildlife photographer But you know, you still pinch yourself every day, because you are doing something that you love it there is always luck in life isn't there? And you can create some of that work as well. But you do need to be rolling your way I think. Absolutely. I am a wildlife photographer. But yes, you do. You don't necessarily see yourself as that. You know, I think I think naturally as photographers, we can sometimes beat ourselves up a little bit partway. Yes. And I think they call it impostor syndrome these days, don't know that you're in a position. When you're thinking, Gosh, right. Okay. That's amazing.

Angela Nicholson: 10:42

It does strike me sometimes people say to me,'Oh, I'm a whatever, photographer, but...' No, no, we don't need the but. You know, that's, that's what you photograph. That's what you enjoy. You're a photographer. So let's just leave it there.

Ellie Rothnie: 10:55

Yes. There's no but.

Angela Nicholson: 10:56

Did you feel any different when you went on your first trip where you were, you know, a full time wildlife photographer?

Ellie Rothnie: 11:03

Yeah, absolutely. right. Yeah. Because there was a sense of achievement really, that you'd actually done it. And I think that was the biggest thing. Because in your mind, you know, you're always thinking, Gosh, shall I or shan't I, and maybe I'll know the right time to do this. And then when I actually did it, yeah, I was just really happy. I felt that it achieved what I'd really wanted to do.

Angela Nicholson: 11:26

to know how it's going. And they're really pleased to hear that you're enjoying yourself and making progress is, it's a really nice thing for everybody, actually.

Ellie Rothnie: 11:42

Yes, it is. It is it is, you know, there's a shared love isn't there, especially for example, with SheClicks, because everybody in that forum has a love and a passion for photography, and they love being, you know, with their camera, whether that's outdoors or in a studio, you know, depending on what genre they're enjoying. So we know, I think photography is just a great leveller in that respect, because there is that passion, you know, and everybody just really enjoys what they're doing, you know, and of course, then there's always maybe the tech talk, or there's always something in common if something's not working, or was a certain technique or this sort of thing. So yeah, there is a big shared love. And I think this is where social media has had a big positive impact on the photography industry, because it has brought a lot of people from so many different backgrounds together from around the world. So if you want to chat to somebody in America, or Australia, or the Arctic, for example, there will always be somebody in in a in a forum that you can have a discussion with, about something in particular. So, you know, I think that's one of the big positives of how social media has sort of helped the industry.

Angela Nicholson: 12:59

I was gonna ask you, how important is social media to your business? Would you say?

Ellie Rothnie: 13:04

It's important. Yeah. I mean, I'm sort of have a generation where, you know, I mean, even in my 20s, I didn't have a mobile phone, because they didn't really exist. So, you know, we're in such a tech revolution. Now, basically, you know, I think probably the younger generation understand all the nuances of social media far, far better than I do. But from my perspective, yeah, it's, it's very important. I don't like to spend too long on art there, to be honest with you. So I'd prefer to be out there with my camera and just doing little updates and this sort of thing. But I do think it certainly raised the profile of many photographers, and as I say, allowed photographers to connect as well with with something that they share in this day and age. Yeah, it's an important communication tool that we have.

Angela Nicholson: 13:55

Yeah. I think there's a tendency to feel like you should be on every platform. Yes. But it's easier and perhaps better, I think, to concentrate on one or two. So maybe on Facebook or Instagram, particularly if you're a photographer. Is that the approach you've adopted?

Ellie Rothnie: 14:10

It is, I agree.

Angela Nicholson: 14:12

Not on tick tock, then?

Ellie Rothnie: 14:14

Well, as you know, it was suggested a few weeks ago, and I just laughed, I thought, no, that's not one for me. But yeah, I focus on Facebook and Instagram, and I'm also on LinkedIn. But that's probably from the old sort of corporate days, basically, but it still is a good platform for meeting other photographers. But without a doubt Facebook, I find is far easier to engage with with other people. And Instagram is just good for sort of showing your portfolio basically. So those are the two that I focus on. No, YouTube, not yet.

Angela Nicholson: 14:50

No. Okay. How do you decide where to go and what to photograph?

Ellie Rothnie: 14:56

Oh, wow. Well, I think as a photographer, you always have a wish list. And sometimes that wish list can sit there for many years, you know. So in part it, the trips that I'm leading, that takes me to those locations and those species, but I do have my favourites. So I'll go back to location, year after year after year, in fact, several times every year, and I never get bored of that, that's again, that's my approach. That's how I do it. Because I like to learn the location, I like to learn about the species. And every single time that I go back, the conditions are different, the weather is different, the behaviour is different, I might be using a different lens, I'll always come away with different images, but you know, you understand the behaviour. So you know that if the bird does something ticularly with with its wing, you know what's going to happen, you know, it's going to put its wings up, and then it's gonna take flight. And they're often the best images, you know, to take rather than it just being a sitting duck, basically. So I just have my favourite species, and the locations drive where I'm going to photograph them. So I've got a love for Dalmatian pelican. So I've been going out to that one location for more than 10 years now, mainly in the winter, but I go in the spring and the summer, you know, and I'm just documenting the story of those pelicans, because it is a conservation success. And so as a species around the world, it's declining, like so many now that in one particular small part of Greece, there's a local initiative where they're building breeding platforms. And it means that the breeding is is pretty successful every year because of that. And so the population on that particular lake is actually increasing. And I've been documenting that now for more than 10 years. So there's a book to tell the story because it's not just about this amazing and beautiful looking pelican. It's the story behind it, and how threatened it is elsewhere. But in this one small part of the it's doing all right. Brilliant. Again, northern Gannett, I adore photographing lot northern gannets. That's been a passion for 15 years with me now. And I'll go back to the same locations every single year and photograph them and hence the trip. Follow the with that. So I think if you know a lot of pros would probably say they've all got their favourites. And that very much drives you know what they do.

Angela Nicholson: 18:03

Yeah. What is it about the pelicans that you liked so much?

Ellie Rothnie: 18:09

Well, you know, I said, I just think they look calm. They're just funny looking, aren't they? But stunningly beautiful birds. Again, it was a an image that I saw. And that must have been about 15 years ago, from there from its late Keaney. And nobody really seen the Dalmatian Pelican before. And I saw this image because it had won something in a competition and thought, My goodness, look at these, you know that? Aren't they amazing? You know, and then I just started working on how to get there. It was one of those species on my list if you like. So I think initially, when I saw them, I just thought, yeah, they look, they look to key there. They've got these amazing breeding feathers that they have in the winter. They've also got this beautiful red bill, that maturity in the winter. So this is the breeding colours that they have. And all in all, just, I don't know, I do them. I've just got this passion for them. And from probably seeing a photograph, yeah, about 15 years ago, and I never get bored of them. You know, I'm often asked, Do you not get, you know, a bit fed up with going back to a location again and again, and photograph in the same burden? It's that I'm never bored. Can't wait to get back.

Angela Nicholson: 19:29

That's good. You mentioned sometimes, you know, the conditions aren't right, the animal doesn't turn up, you know, the light doesn't come good. How do you deal with that? Frustration of a wasted day or wasted few hours? Do you see it as part of the process and just sort of take it on board use it as sort of a mindful few hours sat there and in nature, or do you get frustrated?

Ellie Rothnie: 19:52

Never, never frustrated. I don't see it like that. And I never go out on a shoot thinking. This is the image I've got to get. I never think like I've got images in my mind that I'd like to get one day but I just carry them around with me. So that if I'm ever in that situation where the weather's doing something or the habitat looks the way that I had it in my mind, then that's fantastic. But you can get really frustrated and downhearted if you go just for a day shoot or even if you're going away for a week or two weeks. Next, whatever, and you've got certain images that you desperately want to get. And they've got to be just so because I can guarantee you'll frustrate yourself with that approach. So just enjoy it for what it is enjoy being out there. Sometimes I don't even take any photographs. And yeah, I just watch. And again, that's a great one is learning, you know about species. And then something else might happen that you weren't expecting, or a different animal turns that, again, you weren't expecting. So often, if you go out with an open mind, you can enjoy the unexpected. And if the weather's a little challenging rain, snow, fog, you name it, great, embrace it, because they're often the best images. And it was actually in snow and fog that I taught myself the high key technique. And initially, my images weren't really working as I had them again, in my mind, I wanted that sort of purity and whiteness, and the negative space and this sort of thing, and just embracing a foggy situation with Gannett, fantastic, great high key. And that's how I see bad weather these days is just go out there and see what happens. Actually, sunny days are the worst for wildlife photography. You know? That's right. Absolutely. Apart from the gold now as either side, they're ideal. But But yeah, sunny days, the worst day really.

Angela Nicholson: 22:02

Yes, very harsh, light, strong shadows. You've mentioned research a couple of times, how much of your time is spent researching as in looking at books or reading on the internet, actual research in an office or in your home, rather than out shooting?

Ellie Rothnie: 22:18

Again, that's a good question to try and put a finger on it. II tend to be researching even if you're on a plane going somewhere, you know, I read a lot of natural history books. So you could probably say that that's searching too. I do Google something if I'm unsure, or if I'm curious about something that I you know, I'm a big reader. So how can you put a finger on that? Yeah, maybe 20% something and then and then the rest of the time is observing when you're out there? You know, you it's more about watching the wildlife.

Angela Nicholson: 22:49

Yeah, seeing the behaviours.

Ellie Rothnie: 22:52

Yes.

Angela Nicholson: 22:53

Are there any animals that you haven't photographed yet? That you'd like to?

Ellie Rothnie: 22:57

Do you know, polar bear.

Angela Nicholson: 22:59

Oh, wow. Yes.

Ellie Rothnie: 23:00

That's quite a common answer, I imagine, certainly, these days. But yeah, I'd really like to go to the Arctic Svalbard and photograph the polar bear. But I'm not happy with all animals, really. But that is one on my list that I would love to do. And I'd love to go to the Galapagos one day. And again, I hear different reports back from that. But it's only because of reading about Darwin when I was a kid. And I just want to go,

Angela Nicholson: 23:26

Oh right! Yes.

Ellie Rothnie: 23:29

Those are the two really on my wish list.

Angela Nicholson: 23:33

Oh, I look forward to seeing them pop up on your Instagram feed at some point. Now you're a Canon ambassador. How did that come around?

Ellie Rothnie: 23:42

I've just been doing what I'm doing. And they approached me and asked me to apply. Okay. So, again, that's the strength of social media and having a website, you know, and just putting your images out there. It's interesting, because I often feel uncomfortable talking myself up. If this makes sense. Maybe this is the female thing. I don't know. But you know, I like to think that I'm, I'm modest in my approach. But I still think it's important that the images, say who you are. And the images need to speak for themselves and stand up on their own two feet. Hence, the importance of having those communication channels to the outside world. You know, that's the best way through your images to tell people what you are, what you do, what your style is, and a little bit more about you. Really? Yeah. So they approached me and invited me to apply for this. And I'll be honest with you, I kept saying, I won't get this. I won't get this, but I'll go. I was so happy to be invited to like than to have a sponsor for this. And yeah, I was successful with that. So I'm so happy about that recognition. Because if you'd asked me one day, would you like to be a Canon ambassador? I'd say Ha, yeah, of course. Hope. Oh, my goodness. But that's beyond my wildest dreams. That one. So when you are successful with that, yes, it is amazing. Yeah. So I'm very happy. Yeah, and Canon are a fantastic company. You know, I've used Canon since well, those days when I was little with my dad. I've always been a Canon photographer, and their kit has got me through extreme wear. As a left, right and centre, it's never let me down. And just still using an old 500 mil mark one that still now is sharp and as incredible as it was the day I bought it, I think that's just testimony to who Canon are.

Angela Nicholson: 25:45

Are you using that lens? On an SLR still? Or are you using it via an adapter on a mirrorless? Camera?

Ellie Rothnie: 25:51

I'm still a little bit of both. So I'm still using a DSLR. And within the last year, now, I have got some mirrorless equipment as well. So I tend to use both different situations really, but I do really love the mirrorless system and and just the weight. I mean, gosh, and that I know, that's what a lot of my guests say, with any of the mirrorless systems, you know, it's it's a lot of the decision for them to go mirrorless was just down to the weight. So yeah, it's exactly the same with the with the Canon equipment.

Angela Nicholson: 26:26

I imagined that the eye detection, autofocus must be very useful for you as well.

Ellie Rothnie: 26:30

It is yes, it is the animal tracking and the eye detection, I use those a lot. And there are different ways that you can just tweak within the camera as well. And what I love as well is is just all the, you know, different recall functions that have now got set up. So it's a lot quicker, you can be a lot more responsive as a photographer, when the animal shows a certain behaviour. Whereas perhaps, you know, using my older cameras, I probably could get an image and then I might have missed an image. But the whole AF system now in the mirrorless cameras is is incredible, is a game changer really.

Angela Nicholson: 27:11

That's a phrase that's used quite a lot. But I think it's very true when you're talking about subject detection.

Ellie Rothnie: 27:16

Yes, it is. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 27:18

Well, I think it's a good time to go to six from SheClicks. I've got 10 Questions from SheClickers. And I would like you to answer six of them, please, by picking numbers from one to 10. So if you'd like to give me your first number, okay, seven. Number seven, aren't out. This is from Philippa, she says, 'Do you have any advice about getting published?'

Ellie Rothnie: 27:38

What I would suggest is networks and contacts. So is this published in a magazine or published as a book?

Angela Nicholson: 27:47

I think probably in a magazine

Ellie Rothnie: 27:48

I would recommend getting to know who those editors are. So targeting where you would like to be published in terms of your images and your writing and get to know those editors, you know, even at some of the shows, a lot of the editors will be there. And you can actually just go and shake their hand and introduce yourself and give them a card with your website. The other advice I'd give as well is about image curation. So think about how you want to be perceived when somebody looks at your website, or looks at your social media feeds. And put those images online that if you like you want to be known for. So that might be developing a particular smile, for example, with myself and known a lot for high key and low key photography and the foreground and the background. But that doesn't mean to say I don't do a lot of action shots and images of lions eating a Willoughby's that sort of thing. I just don't really publish those a lot. But I still take those a lot. So I've always thought carefully about what I actually put out into the public domain. And that would be another part of my advice really is just how you're representing yourself, for example, on your website, so that when that editor then goes onto your website and looks at those images, they think oh, my goodness, yeah, that's amazing. And then hopefully then that will open doors to get published.

Angela Nicholson: 29:14

I think that sounds like great advice. You mentioned shows do you mean specifically shows around wildlife? Or photography?

Ellie Rothnie: 29:21

Yes, both. Yes. So something like the the bird show or like the photography show, for example, any of those specialist shows, of course, according to the genre that she's in, you know, if for example, she's wants to be published for her wedding photography, for example, go, you know, target the wedding shows where those editors might be, but also just write to them. They're often watching what people are doing on social media again, and it's so easy now to get in touch. I think it's just getting yourself in front of them. And then hopefully there'll be success from that.

Angela Nicholson: 29:57

Great. Could I have a second number please?

Ellie Rothnie: 29:59

Let's have number one.

Angela Nicholson: 30:02

Number one. Okay, this question is from Penny. She says some of your photographs appear to be taken at very close range and at eye level. For example, when facing a large lion. Have there ever been times where you are fearful when photographing these amazing animals? Or have things ever not gone to plan in the wild?

Ellie Rothnie: 30:20

Have oh, gosh, that that's a good one. Have I ever been fearful? Sometimes it's healthy to have a certain element of fear, because then that shows that you have respect for that animal. And one occasion, probably about 18 months ago, I was just lying on a beach in Alaska with the grizzly bears walking past there not too far away. And you realise that you're in quite a vulnerable position because you're lying down on the sand and with your camera, right? It's just watching them and having that respect for them and, and having that certain element here. And that can really happen in any any situation. Yes, I will say that I use long lenses a lot. So, for example, if there's a lion looks quite close, there's a good chance that I photographed that lion on for example, a 500 millimetre lens. So but often, I'll try and get low down. So that is a good point that she spotted is that I'm at a low level with a lion and other species like that, clearly, you can't get out the vehicle that that's a really unsafe situation, more importantly, for the animal as well as for yourself. But you can be in adapted vehicles like photo vehicles, where you can lie down on the on the floor of the vehicle. And then obviously, then if the species is just a little bit farther away, you're taking that with a 500 mil, you've got that you're shooting right across the ground, basically. And what else elephants I've been lying under a vehicle with with elephants walking past, again, it gets the adrenaline going a little bit. But that was the most amazing experience because they were very comfortable. They didn't actually know I was there, you know, making no noise not moving, they can just see a vehicle, but they were rumbling they knew indicating to each other as they were walking paths. And I felt the rumbling in my chest. And that is something I'll never ever forget, you know that that communication? I felt it to be I can imagine. So I think there's always a lot of common sense. You know, the main thing with wildlife photography is you never make the animal uncomfortable, fearful, anxious. They're the main goals when you're out and photographing. So, but there are situations you know, where you can, you can work it.

Angela Nicholson: 32:50

I have been lucky enough to go on a safari, and there was one where some, some cheetahs just kept getting closer and closer and closer, and the cubs were all playing around the tyres of the vehicle. And you're thinking, well, your mum might not be too happy about that, you know, we're just staying there. But you can't you can't stop them getting closer when I suppose you can because you can put the car into reverse. But there's a tendency not to do that.

Ellie Rothnie: 33:12

Yes, yeah. Yeah, that's right. I mean, what they tend to do is perhaps to start the engine, just to deter the, for example, the cheetah, from certainly jumping onto the vehicle, which is often bad news for the cheetah. You know, they can break their legs when they jump down, for example, which is the end of bad animals live. So the local guides that you work with, should very much be responsible in that respect as well.

Angela Nicholson: 33:38

So, could I have your third number, please?

Ellie Rothnie: 33:40

Okay, ;et's go for number nine.

Angela Nicholson: 33:42

Number nine. Oh, now this is a really interesting one. Okay. What is the biggest mistake you see people make in wildlife photography? And is there a mistake that you've made that you'd be willing to share? That's from Liz?

Ellie Rothnie: 33:57

Oh, my gosh, biggest mistake in wildlife photography. And I guess that there aren't many aren't there? I think I think we all we all live and learn on that one. To be honest, that the biggest mistake I see, I guess it depends if that's out in the field, or whether that is actually the way that somebody's approaching their photography. But if it's in terms of how somebody's approaching the image itself, the biggest mistake is, I'd say, around backgrounds and foregrounds and composition, because just maybe a slight movement to the left or to the right or maybe down a little bit would have improved that image and made a good image into a great image. So that that photographer might have been in a in an incredible situation with an animal, but perhaps the image didn't work as well as it could have done, I think out in the field, noise and sudden movement, because often photography can be quite a social event as well. But it's always just a thing just to keep the noise levels down. And certainly not to be moving and running and shouting and this sort of thing because that might just distress the animal will make them fly and it ruins it for everybody. I can think of one time and this was many years ago. I was Over in America, I was photographing snow geese. And it was early in the morning. And there are about 40,000 Snow geese that it just created. And you're waiting for what's called the blast off. So basically, as the sun rises, they will take to the air. At the same time, I was in a higher car, and the higher car was locked, and walked away, you know, with with some people to photograph these geese and wait for this blaster. And the alarm of the higher car just went off. He couldn't make it up. And so the geese just took to the air, you know, I'd been so important go, I'm really sharing one of my experience. What's not really because there was nothing you could do about it. The inland just randomly went off, spoke with snow geese and into the air. They went, Oh, wow. And you're sort of walking away with your head in your hands like this? You know?

Angela Nicholson: 36:24

Oh dear!

Ellie Rothnie: 36:26

But hey-ho, these things happen.

Angela Nicholson: 36:29

I guess they do. Yes. So can I have your fourth number please?

Ellie Rothnie: 36:35

Err let's go for number five.

Angela Nicholson: 36:37

Number five. Oh, now this is from Philippa.'I've been looking at your Dalmatian Pelican gallery on your website.' She was there a few years ago and it was very cold. But not as iced-up as when you were there? How do you prepare for extreme cold conditions for you and your gear? And do you have any particular advice to share on that

Ellie Rothnie: 36:56

The most important thing is clothing. Because there's nothing worse than being cold and feeling the cold. And in fact, it can be quite a dangerous situation, as well, you know, in terms of hypothermia, so lots of layers, and then I wear a really big sort of quilted coat over the top of all those layers. So that's the main thing I'd say in any cold environment is just dress appropriately down to winter boots where the soles are much thicker, and they raise your the soles of your feet from the ground. So you're not feeling that. So heat pads or that sort of thing. You know, I use all of this when I'm in a cold environment and Yellowstone in winter, Japan in winter. Yeah, I mean, even that's that time at Lake Keaney with the pelicans. That was minus 15. And that's quite unheard of in that part of the world really. So whereas Japan can go to minus 30 minus 35, something like that. Wow. So primarily, look after yourself. It's all about clothing, and also have hot drinks with you. It sounds like common sense, really, doesn't it? Even chocolate, sugar, anything that you can just go for, you know, if needed. In terms of my kit, I tend to use the neoprene covers on the lenses, just to give them a bit of protection. And also around the camera and the tripod as well especially tripods need a bit of looking after because they're standing in snow or on ice, this sort of thing. So I've always found that those covers give a good degree of protection basically, keep spare batteries in pocket, just so they don't drain their life. It's usual stuff really. But I've never done a camera or lens fail in in those extreme environments. The other thing as well as I just do use a sort of a double lined dust bag in a cold situation as well. It can just give some protection certainly on the lens, whether it's snowing, or it's hail, or it's just generally really cold. And it also provides a bit of protection for your hands too. So lay yourself and lay your equipment would be my advice.

Angela Nicholson: 39:04

Do you have any particular glove or mitten recommendations?

Ellie Rothnie: 39:07

Oh! Not really No, I actually use a ski glove. It's a mitten that you can take your fingers out of the mitten that your thumb your thumbs free, and then your fingers are in another lining. So that's what I used in that situation. But there are many out there that specialise in this, but no particular recommendation on that one. But I do use the handwarmers, they're really good.

Angela Nicholson: 39:32

Okay, yeah, they are very useful. Right. Can I have your penultimate number, please?

Ellie Rothnie: 39:37

Number 10.

Angela Nicholson: 39:39

What criteria do you use to decide between colour and black and white photos when creating a wildlife photo? Is the black and white option selected in post processing? That question is from Rachel.

Ellie Rothnie: 39:49

That's a great question. Rachel. There are certain situations and images or the way you know that they're going to work well in black and white. So you've got contrast or the animal has a strong pattern, for example, like the giraffe, you know, or a leopard, for example, or some birds, but you can see that actually you in that image, you've got a good range of whites to black, and it can be quite contrasting. When I'm out in the field. I'm actually taking those images in full colour and I will do that conversion in post processing. However, I would say that my style is predominantly colour left, because I guess that's just how I see the world. It's a colourful place. So most of the work that I do, I keep it in colour. And basically in my post processing, I'm getting that raw file back to how I remember it in the field, my processing itself probably takes about 10 minutes per image, I do very little, really to those images. The key is just getting it right in camera. And as I say, most of what I do is colour that Yeah, absolutely, you're right, there are certain times when, when you can see something with the pattern with the contrast where you think that's, you know, or structurally, you know, there's something structurally beautiful about it, that that's going to work very well, in black and white. Another example I have is a Barbary macaques was just sitting on top of a spiral staircase. So you can imagine the staircase goes up and the macaques, sitting right at the top, and you're taking that against quite cloudy sky, so it was naturally a high key image. But in my mind, when I was taking that I was thinking black and white, for that image. So you just tend to see it as you're going around. And you know, you're in different situations.

Angela Nicholson: 41:43

If you in that, say, in that situation where you decide this is going to be great and black and white, does it make you handle exposure in any different way at all.

Ellie Rothnie: 41:51

Generally, I'm probably brightening that image a little bit, because in my mind, it is going to be against, for example, quite a grey sky or it might be against snow. And it's something where you think this is going to work in black and white. So I brighten it. So I go into a high key approach with that image. And then processing is very minimal because you've done it in camera. So yes, if I think if you see it that you think this is going to be black and white, when I get home, you do shoot a little bit differently. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 42:28

Right. So your final number, please.

Ellie Rothnie: 42:31

We haven't had number six, have we?

Angela Nicholson: 42:34

No, you haven't on number six, right? Number six, this is from Paula. You have photographs from and tours to various parts of the world, how do you balance the desire to catch it and document these animals in their environments, with the inevitable carbon footprint this travelling involves?

Ellie Rothnie: 42:51

That's an important one. I mean, in terms of the flights I take, I do offset those flights, that with anything, whenever you getting in a car, or you're getting on an aeroplane, you're going to have some form of carbon footprint. And that absolutely is always in your mind. I do do a lot of travelling. And I guess the way I rationalise that is that I just want to share that passion and that love of those animals with other people and tell those stories, whilst also offsetting or trying to upset as best as I can with what I'm doing. And that's really how I approach it. But there's no perfect solution. That is a very good question. And I'd say most photographers who do travel will be very mindful of their carbon footprints.

Angela Nicholson: 43:39

Yeah. Well, Ellie, thank you so much for answering all of those questions. It's been absolutely fascinating hearing from you.

Ellie Rothnie: 43:47

Thank you, Angela. I just want to thank you and everybody that she clicks for inviting me for the podcast. Be nice to see you all one day.

Angela Nicholson: 43:56

That would be lovely. Well, thank you very much.

Ellie Rothnie: 43:58

And I think whatever we can do to encourage more women into the industry and certainly into wildlife photography, that would be just great.

Angela Nicholson: 44:08

Fantastic. Thank you very much

Ellie Rothnie: 44:10

Thank you.

Angela Nicholson: 44:11

Bye.

Ellie Rothnie: 44:11

Bye bye.

Angela Nicholson: 44:14

Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You'll find links to Ellie's website and social media channels in the shownotes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.