Amy Bateman: Win or Lose, Competitions Can Boost Motivation and Confidence

Amy Bateman: 0:04

I see so many photographers and so many people who want to be photographers that do not value their time. And your time is ridiculously valuable. And you can earn a lot of money by spending your time on the right things.

Angela Nicholson: 0:19

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson. I'm the founder of SheClicks which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talked to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. This episode features Amy Bateman, a former physiotherapist and creative photographer who specialises in capturing people, places and artistisan products on camera. She won several major photography competitions as an amateur and became a freelance photographer in 2019. Amy has also published a book '40 Farms', which combines her farming background with her photography. Hi, Amy, welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. Thanks for joining me today.

Amy Bateman: 1:01

Thanks ever so much for having me, Angela.

Angela Nicholson: 1:03

It's great to see you. Now, can we start right at the beginning of your photographic career because you started life working as a physiotherapist didn't you, and you transitioned to be a photographer. So how did that career change come about for you?

Amy Bateman: 1:17

It wasn't planned. It certainly wasn't planned. I was just, yeah, I was a physiotherapist. I had a private clinic here in Kendal, and I was very much the busy businesswoman and not having a family. And then the family came along and the hormones changed the way my brain worked. And it was actually really nice bringing up these little people here. But equally, we discovered very quickly that having, we had three children quite close together because I had twins, first of all, having three and three and three nappies was very expensive for childcare. And for me to keep working full time would have only meant I was bringing in five grand a year. So we just decided, you know, it's just not worth it. So I gave up the work, gave up the clinic. And that was quite strange because I had a feeling of kind of grief that part of me I was giving up on part of me because I was almost defined my by my job as a physio it's all up known my work in life. Anyway, I managed to get my head around that and brought up the three children early years here on our farm, and we farm just outside Kendal, here on the edge of the Lake District. And so I learned to farm alongside my husband and looking after the children. But I still needed something just for me, a little bit for me. And so I started taking a camera out. And I got left a little bit of money and I was able to buy an entry-level DSLR. So started off shooting Nikon and just fell in love with photography. And then my husband saw that I was really enjoying the photography and for Mother's Day, courtesy of my children, I was sent on an adult education class at the local art centre, which was six weeks, an introduction to digital photography and was taught how to switch off auto onto manual. And that was it. I was just hooked. I just loved what I could create, in the end being able to be in control of the functions on the camera. It was staggering. I just could not believe what I was able to do. But a big shift came from using the internet. I found that because living rurally and my small children, my husband only wanted to see so many of my pictures, but I wanted to share this new new power and glory that I was like, 'Oh, look at these pictures, look what I can capture'. And so I hopped onto the internet and found on Twitter is a fantastic community of photographers who are incredibly generous with their time, their comments, their praise, really lovely group of photographers. And it's still going, it's still there, even though it's changed to X, and it's all a bit different. And those photographers I got sort of used to seeing a massive wide range of genre photography, and got access to competitions, online competitions. So the big ones are hashtag wexmonday run by Wex Photo Video. Now they've changed the layout of it a little bit. There's hashtag fsprintmonday, which is Fotospeed. And there's hashtag ShareMondays which is run by the photographers. So if you win a competition one week, you get to judge the next week. And I found by being introduced to these competitions, it was a massive range of photos you were exposed to every single week. And of course, I had my photo phone with me all the time when I could jump on Twitter when I should have been maybe feeding the cows or when the kids were having a nap or something like that. So it was I was always looking at photography. And I started entering some of these competitions and feedback was fabulous straightaway and I got lots of success quite quickly, which is incredibly motivating and led me to enter more competitions.

Angela Nicholson: 4:54

It's really interesting, actually, because we do have this sort of vision I think sometimes the lone photographer out capturing the world, you know, whether it's documentary photography, or landscape photography or street, but it's really nice to connect with other photographers, you know, you might go into the wilds of the Lake District to capture some of your images. But it's really nice to be able to show people your pictures and to ask for comments, or just say, I'm really pleased with this one and get a little bit of feedback.

Amy Bateman: 5:20

Oh, without a doubt, and that's what's really helped grow my photography, I would say had a massive learning curve, and getting that critical feedback. And if you don't want it, you can just say, you know, you are, if you want is more is better to invite it, you can say critical feedback, welcome. But I did find, and this is why I love the fact that you've generated she claims, because I'm sure there are people in the same sort of boat that maybe don't want to ask the whole world but want a bit more of a female perspective on things. And that's great. And the thing is about entering those sorts of competitions, I developed a really thick skin very quickly because hundreds of people enter those competitions every single week. And there were some fantastic photographs. I might add, at this point, if anybody doesn't know about the competition, do you have to enter a picture that you've actually taken within the last week, which is great for amateur photographers, because you can keep competing with the pros, because they can't dip into their beautiful bag of past archival shots and stuff. And it's literally within that last week. And so I was finding that I'd be entering these competitions, and you don't get selected, somebody else does. And you look at their pictures. Okay, that's good, that's good. And you get used to rejection. And so I developed really thick skin quite quickly. And photography is incredibly subjective. I've had so many arguments with camera clip judges, which I actually quite enjoyed the sport. But it is remarkably subjective. And I think people get too wrapped up in believing everybody should think their images are fabulous, or a image is fabulous. And if it isn't, you might just hit a pocket of people like them. And that's, that's fine.

Angela Nicholson: 6:59

And also, I think it's important to remember that it's not a personal comment, it's about the photograph. It's not about you or your interpretation. But often because we pour so much thought into our photography, it can be quite hard to sort of keep away from that. And remember that it isn't a personal comment.

Amy Bateman: 7:14

Without a doubt, and that separation from personal and the professional, I guess, because I'm professional now. But even for amateur photographers, it's really important, and that you do have to have a bit of water off a duck's back, because for what something is a piece of art for somebody else, even yourself, you know, somebody else may or may not think so. But I do see people getting quite personal about things and having a bit of a hard time. And I don't know how I don't know what to say on that. I just I know that I developed a thick skin very quickly. And that's helped massively and just, you know, just brush it off and move on.

Angela Nicholson: 7:47

Yeah. And when you started taking more photographs, or you started taking photographs actually, you got your camera, how quickly did you decide that that was going to be your profession rather than your hobby?

Amy Bateman: 7:58

Well, I only actually picked up a camera seven years ago properly converted to manual within sort of six months of buying that first DSLR and because I entered the competitions quite quickly, I got quite obsessed and that obsession meant I was buying amateur photographer magazine outdoor photographer magazine, I'd be watching YouTube tutorials. And just absorbing so much in my photography leapt quite quickly, and being able to control highlights lowlights of subject competition, all that sort of stuff. And so I started enter in bigger competitions. And it was really I wouldn't fotospeed photography the year in 2018. And I've only been doing photography three years by that point. And I won British Life Photography year in 2019.

Angela Nicholson: 8:45

Fantastic.

Amy Bateman: 8:46

And I would like to say that it hasn't run since COVID. So actually still British life Photographer of the Year. So if I'm still British Life Photographer of the Year when I'm 90, I'll still be milking it Angela.

Angela Nicholson: 8:58

I think you should, that's fine.

Amy Bateman: 9:01

But I mean, entering the competitions is definitely what helped launch me because I started off sharing my images on social media I developed a following that following where we're delighted for me for for the winds, I mean, really lovely group of people. But I was getting the exposure from being an effectively an award winning photographer. So I was getting asked for prints. I was being asked to do portraits of families and I started to just dabble a little bit in earning a bit of money, but only just around the edges because it was still bringing up my children. What was the big crux was winning British life photography year coincided with significant change within the farming world. The Brexit vote had occurred and we knew that we were going to be losing our farm subsidies. Now the farm subsidies were there not to help farmers farm they're there to support cheap food. And we knew that we would have to completely change the way we farm In order to maintain our income as a family, so we thought, well, if we added some diversification through myself to our farm, we just add in an income stream, so that when the subsidies are fully withdrawn, we can still stand on our own two feet. So it was quite fortuitous timing. So when I'd won the British Life Photography Year, we sat down, we wrote a proper business plan. And I think this was the the key to success was being able to actually write down right, what are we going to do? What goals are we going to achieve? How are we going to achieve those, how much we spend on marketing? How am I get to chase money. And at the end of the day, when you're a freelance photographer, you're chasing the next commission. And it's that constant feed in the beast in social media, feed in the profile, getting your profile out there to get the jobs. And I thought, well, I just need to focus on what I'm good at. I'm good at photographing farmland because that's where I've learned and practice. I'm good at photographing the stories within that those farmland, the people, the animals. And so I chose to focus solely on portray people in places here in in Cumbria. And I think that business plan was right at the start was real key to be able to jump quite quickly to being fully fledged professional photographer, based on the award.

Angela Nicholson: 11:23

Yeah, and it's interesting, because obviously, you've been living on your farm quite a while. It's interesting. So your photography business sort of is very much a part of sustaining that lifestyle of you know, being on your farm and your husband still being a farmer as well. Obviously, you still do quite a bit of farm work, but it's not farming, but it's part of the whole business package, isn't it?

Amy Bateman: 11:44

Oh, absolutely. I'm when I when fotospeed Photographer of the Year, part of the prize was to spend a day with duck Chinnery. Nice. And if anybody doesn't know who he is, he's fantastic. Oh, he was so generous with his time. And he sat down with me and really helped me to try and work out where I wanted my business to go, or how I was going to attract work. And he just kept on he said it several times throughout the day, you know, you've got an absolute USBA me with the farm, you need to market that you need to go down that route. And I think that is the key. I knew that evening class that people had said, it's remarkably difficult to make money out of landscape photography. And okay, I was photographing landscape. But I generally say I'm an accidental landscape photographer, because I love my bed too much. I am seriously admire Verity Milligan, not just because of her stunning photography, but because of her capabilities of being able to get up at four o'clock or stupid o'clock in the morning. Yes, I can't I use the farm and my children is my excuse. But it's actually just like my bed. But because he was so, so positive about trying to use the farm as a USP. And I think that's the key is to focus on what you're good at, what your experiences from what you know, inside out. And that made my farming photography easier, because I knew I knew what I was

Angela Nicholson: 13:16

And I think writing down a plan like you photographing. did, that really helps in those moments of doubt, doesn't it? Because you you can look at it because it No, no, this is, you know, this is part of the plan and also helps you justify next steps and things and also the fact that your husband was on board with that whole process. It really helps kind of shore up the whole, your feelings about it, I suppose.

Amy Bateman: 13:39

Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I think the thing is about having a written business plan and going back to it and reviewing it, I do need to review it again, because things have changed a lot in this last year. But I'm I'm in my mid 40s and having a new career in my 40s I wasn't going to scratch around the ground, just having jacket potatoes for dinner while my career took off. I really needed to support my family this had to work. And so I very, very quickly was very financial discipline about my prints, for example, how much is you know, working out the cost of every print, fortunately won the printer, but even then, now that I'm doing mass production printing, I am off getting that done by third parties. fotospeed very kindly stepped in and said they'd like to do my printing, which is lovely. Fantastic. Yes. But it's that paying attention to every financial detail and valuing your time and I see so many photographers and so many people who want to be photographers that do not value their time. And your time is ridiculously valuable. And you can earn a lot of money by spending your time on the right things. And it's that really disciplined approach to Okay, is twiddling on Twitter really going to make me any money today, or am I going to go and try and find some commissions or work on that project I wanted to do to be able to get some new work, or maybe there's a skill I need to develop. So I can actually get different open commissions. And so I would work on some off camera flash in my spare time so that I could start doing proper portraits out and about and that helped tremendously. And it's just been really, really disciplined with that bottom line, so that your photography is a success.

Angela Nicholson: 15:24

I think what you're talking about is developing a business mindset, isn't it? It's not just, Well, I quite like this photography lot. And I'm gonna see if I can make a bit of money out of it, you actually sat down and decided this is what I'm going to do. This is how I'm going to approach it.And you're off.

Amy Bateman: 15:42

Yeah, exactly that.

Angela Nicholson: 15:44

And how did you then find your first clients and get those first Commission's

Amy Bateman: 15:49

I actually did a bit of photography at our local primary school. So three, three girls, and they local primary school, the photographer who done sort of the end of school leavers pictures, didn't want to do it anymore. So I tagged along with her one day that I can do this, and sold a little gallery afterwards, and people would buy the picture. And that opened my name up to other friends that wanted portraits, family portraits, I would photograph dogs, dogs are really, really popular, people love having their dogs photographed. And just trying to develop different ways of photographing the dogs, you know, popping them in the studio with their coat and their lead and boots so that the whole picture tells more of a story. And what I found was that I really enjoy Storytelling photography. So every angle of my commission, I try and develop that storytelling into my images. So as I would do more and more and more people heard about my name, I'd be invited to local businesses, photo photographing products, that there's a company here called Herdwick. Tweed, and they wanted their products photographing, but you know, photographing a beautiful tweed Gooden slip you could do quite nicely in the studio, but I took it upon to the foul where the Heather was out, and I borrowed my stepfather's gun. And I like to tell the story. And it's, it's thinking more about what trying to do things a bit differently. You know, there's so many people are doing photography, and you've, we are bombarded with images all day through social media through all the screens that we're looking at, on the television, bus stops all day, we are bombarded by adverts and images. And you've got to do something really different to make your image stand out. So that people spend just that little bit longer looking at your image and capture the imagination to tell that story, take the eyes on a journey, whatever you want to do. And I found my way of doing that was through storytelling with my photography. So adding elements in using the light, using extra props or things like that, or just looking at different ways of taking the photographs. And I think it just led on then the Commission's rolled in on the back of successful work. But I do have to admit that winning a major photography competition really helped.

Angela Nicholson: 18:05

Well, I think again, it works in a couple of ways. You know, it's yes, your name gets out there, people are looking at your pictures thinking this is a good photographer. But it also gives you the confidence to approach people or to say yes to a few more projects.

Amy Bateman: 18:20

It's really motivating winning a competition like that. I'll tell you a funny thing is I've listened to a couple of your podcasts, quite a lot actually had to do similar. Brilliant. Thank you. And there's a lot of women talk about impostor syndrome, and I see it on CI clicks. And I was a qualified physiotherapist I'd done really well at university got my degree, I was more than just if I'd been a physiotherapist and I had dreadful impostor syndrome in my clinic. And I just thought every morning that somebody would knock on the door and just say, Come on, Amy, we know you're faking it, you can step aside and give up now. And yet, as a photographer, and I've only been to evening classes, I don't have it. I just don't understand if anything more justified should have it more. And it's gone in quite entirely. And I don't know whether it's that validation from the competition's or whether I'm just 100% happy doing what I'm doing. Because I am like a pig in poo at the moment. I really am.

Angela Nicholson: 19:21

Well, that's good.

Amy Bateman: 19:22

I'm just so grateful. But it just so unbelievably happy that my work doesn't feel like my work. And I know that's a very fortunate place to be and I don't know whether that helps with the imposter syndrome. I don't know. I'd love to understand it more.

Angela Nicholson: 19:40

Maybe also, you know, because you like your images, you're producing images that you are happy with. Whereas with the physiotherapy you never really know whether someone is actually better because they might say oh, yes, it doesn't hurt as much now but does it or maybe it's that I don't know.

Amy Bateman: 20:00

I don't know, maybe I'm a better photographer than I was a physio. I don't know. Who knows? I just, I've tried and I've laid in bed, analysing it, but I don't care. It's so lovely to shaking it off.

Angela Nicholson: 20:14

Good. That's great. So obviously, you're a keen advocate of photography competitions. What advice would you give to someone who's thinking about entering a photography competition? Or maybe they've just seen one, and they're wondering whether they should enter?

Amy Bateman: 20:27

All that sort of lovely question. I think in the first place, you've got to be in it to win it. I did find that there was loads of competitions, if you actually Google photography competitions, and I did this in my early days. There are a lot out there. I think the ones that I really valued were the ones that were free to enter. There's a lot out there that are purely designed to make money and I chose to avoid those. Yeah, I chose to enter ones that were relatable to the general public, in that I wasn't entering salons, I wasn't interested the ones that you can do at camera club and things like that, because nobody, general public who are looking to commission or photography won't have an idea what they are. So I refrained from putting the time and effort into printing my pictures for you know, the camera club salons. And the way I felt about it was the ones that were in the public eye. Were the ones that I was entering British life or Truck of the Year had a very small entry fee. I did actually enter quite long photo crowd, I really enjoyed photo crowd. I don't do it so much anymore. And the nice thing is about photo crowd is you can I won books, photography books, I wouldn't tripods. Because I think I've won about three or four on there. And it's motivating, really motivating when you when you do when things. But equally, I think if I hadn't have won them, would I feel as motivated? Well, yes, because I use that as a motivation to get better.

Angela Nicholson: 21:51

It does make me sad sometimes when somebody will say, Oh, well, I'm glad I didn't enter because my pictures aren't as good. And he said, Well, firstly, you're not the judge, actually, you know, who knows why your pictures might get picked. But also, it's like, you've got to be in it to win it. And if everybody takes that attitude, then they'll only be one person who enters and they win by default. And it's just, it kind of devalues the whole competition process.

Amy Bateman: 22:14

Absolutely. And at the end of the day, if you enter them, have a look at the pictures that actually went after it and then have look at your anything. Okay, well, maybe what can I do better next time? Yeah, maybe to keep the camera with you more. So you don't miss those opportunities where you could capture the nice light as you're driving home from work or something. And in the early days, I don't do it so much now because I don't have a lot of time to process my own images. I had my camera with me all the time. So the moment there was anything driving the children to school, if there was a beautiful crepuscular Ray, and it was sticking on to a cow's head, you know, or something really unusual because I had my camera, I could capture it. And so entering those sorts of pictures into competitions, you know, I actually had the add the content to start with. But then if I didn't when I did, purposely have a look and think, you know, let's have a look. What are they looking for and, and really read the instructions first, because every competition is different, right down to size in your photographs. Yes, labelling your photographs making sure that the right format, double check in absolutely every detail on your image. There's nothing encroaching it, it's absolutely Bob on focus, make sure that there is nothing that your photograph can be negatively critical about before you enter it and only enter is something that you're really, really impressed with that is technically accurate. Because then if you don't win, then you know you've been bitten beaten by a better picture. And they're always out there. But also not just a better picture. It's a subjectivity. You know, there are lots of competitions, because there's only just one person choosing the winner. There are lots of competitions where there's a group of people, and at the end of the day, it just depends if that Judge likes your your photograph.

Angela Nicholson: 23:56

Yes, I remember, actually, when I used to enter competitions, I haven't done it for quite a while now, I used to do exactly what you say. I'd look at my picture and think well, how is this one better? And I look at it and it was always something like certainly in the early days, you know, I'd taken more of a record shot I hadn't used a particularly interesting angle or the light wasn't great or something like that. And you compare it to the winning image and use you can see that they've they've really thought about the angle they thought about the light and it's just, you know, see it as a learning exercise rather than Oh, well. I knew I wouldn't win because my pictures weren't good you.

Amy Bateman: 24:26

Definitely every single step of the way. I made every opportunity a learning exercise. In fact, when I was really keen, I actually debriefed myself after every commission and think right, okay, what went wrong? Wow, what did I not do right? What was I not organised about? What would I do better next time would I do differently next time and I had like a little SWOT analysis of every commission, and I would purposely because I want I wanted to be the best I could be. And the only way I was going to make this work is if and be comfortable. Being a photographer was Just being the best I could be. And that means constant work. And I've still got a huge amount to learn. There's a lot I don't know about photography, but I'm really enjoying the journey still.

Angela Nicholson: 25:10

I think that's a key part of the whole point of being alive, isn't it to enjoy what you're doing?

Amy Bateman: 25:15

Definitely. And there isn't an end to it. It's a constant journey. And I'm just loving the ride. It's been a bit of a roller coaster this last year, but yeah, still enjoy it.

Angela Nicholson: 25:25

Good. Well, last year, you published a book 40 Farms? I did. Yes. I know that there was some collaboration involved. So can you tell me a little bit about the process of getting your book published, how it came about?

Amy Bateman: 25:37

I'd like to say I sought a publisher but I actually did not actually he approached me entered some work into a project that publisher here in Cumbria was involved with. So my publisher is a regional publisher called de Felton from a company by expired by Lakeland. And I did this book through the locking glass, which was locked down creations from the artists of Cumbria. So during the pandemic, he put a call out for artists working in Cumbria in any medium, and ask them write it, share what you're doing, share what you're still trying to do, whilst we're all locked down, staying at home. And so I took a photograph of my daughter, Rosie with a lamb. And of course, here on our farm life continued during lockdown we couldn't stop the sheep have in their lambs. The first one hit it, I think it was at lambing time. The only thing that was different was the children were at home and they never at home for the entirety of lambing time. But they were. So their friends, their schooling and their friends was replaced by farms and farming and the animals. So Rosie got quite attached to one of the Lambs, and would go and sit in the back room and play with it. And I knew this back room, because I know every inch of our farm, and first thing in the morning, the light would come in there, and the overgrowth hadn't occurred, it was early on in the year. So I knew that the light wasn't filtered. But it was a remarkable scene, it was one of those idyllic farming scenes. And I'd had to use HDR because the contrast between the lights and shadows were massive. Rosie did sit still impose lightly. And I created this image, which I just adore. And it was just me, being a photographer in lockdown at home, I wasn't creating it for anybody else other than as a family. But I did enter it afterwards into this project through the looking glass. And it ended up being in the book. And it was part of the exhibition as well and received quite a lot of attention. And even now that that photographs use quite a lot of people write articles about me or things. And I absolutely adore it. I have it at home printed, it's it's one of those things about photography, it's a joy, photographing my children growing up and capturing these images that I'm really proud of to have on my wall. I think it's really important to put them on your wall. But my publisher saw this image and thought I know, rang me up and he said, Hello, my name is Dave Felton, I've got an idea for a book and I'd really like you to do it for me. And this book was called 60 farms. And I very quickly with my business head on, realised that Dave wasn't going to be able to afford me to do 60 Farms. I knew how many hours was involved in publishing, you don't make a lot of money with books. And so I thought about and I got back to him. I said, Dave, I loved the idea. But I think 40 farms would work better. 40 Farms is an alliteration, and it was more manageable. It wasn't so onerous. We signed a deal. And so I spent 18 months going round Cumbria capturing these farms. And the basis of the book was it's 40 Farms conversations of change across the landscapes of Cumbria. Were a massive, massive point of change. Right? I could do with actually reading the intro, if I may. Sure. Go for it. So the nation's collective interest in British farmers at an all time high, we've got viewing figures for glossy and not so glossy farm TV continue to rise publishes a scouting farm yards for the next James read banks and food security leads news bulletins, farmers are reaching out to Instagram followers worldwide from their sheep pens and mob grazed Meadows. But at the same time, challenges facing agriculture continue to escalate. land prices rise staff shortages, increased costs of feed, fertiliser and fuel rocket government policy and post basic payments which is the subsidy world remains at best unclear and at worst hostile trade deals with countries that don't share the UK high welfare standards. Add in the existential threats posed by climate change, war and corporate land grabs and a perfect storm gathers above an already fragile landscape. So the aim of the book was to capture images at 40 Farms over a 12 month period and the accompanying conversations with that I had with the farmer is Frank sometimes funny, occasionally painful, but always fascinating. Their witness statements have a really unique moment in time. What was really surprising was how successful the book was. It's been out now 14 months, and we've sold over 9000 copies. Well, and I think, at the end of the day, it's not just a photography book. It's it reaches out to people who liked the food, who liked the countryside, who loved the Lake District who love farming, but equally love photography. And it's a very unusual book to have the stories told, I don't know if you've heard of James Reed bangs, but he's a big advocate for nature friendly farming and writes books on them. But not everybody's going to pick them up because they're just text whereas my book has got lots of photographs. And as a visual person I buy into the people telling their stories I buy into the visual nature of those stories. So being able to tell these farms stories of change how they are addressing financial issues, issues of succession, how to farm with nature, how to care for the landscape in such an area as the Lake District, and still produce really high quality food. But tell it through my stories, for me was just the most remarkable opportunity to I couldn't have designed a better project. It was an absolute joy to work on. But here in Cumbria, the geology of Cumbria is so diverse. We've got the high peaks the igneous high peaks of the Fells right down to the fertile plains of the Eden Valley over to the salt marshes at the coast. And the the massive range of geology means that here in Cumbria, we've got a huge range of different farms. So we've been able to cover that range of farms from dairy, beef, sheep, tourism ventures, arable farms, or state farms, you name it, we've got it, young farmers, old farmers, female farmers, there's a relatability, so that any farmer, or a photographer or anybody across the country can pick it up and relate to stories, to pictures, to landscapes to somewhere that's familiar to them. And it's still ongoing. So as a body of work, I'm ridiculously proud of it. But I think it's it goes beyond much more beyond being a photographer, because it's, it's addressing the landscape and showing that we do care for the landscape. As farmers, it shown that we have got really high standards of food production in this country, we need to support those farmers. It helps people make decisions about the food and the sort of food that they should be buying and where they buy it from. And that's very close to my heart being farmers ourselves, and we need to support them and it does that.

Angela Nicholson: 32:50

Understandable. Because a lot of people every year visit the Lake District and don't necessarily see it as a, an agriculturally productive area. But obviously it is and I think the book like that helps bring it home what the challenges are and the importance of the location and the people working the land. But how did you actually select the subjects? Were you presented with a list of 40 Farms, or did you find them?

Amy Bateman: 33:13

Well, I found them Dave and I sat down Dave also runs a podcast himself called country stride, which is about walks throughout the Lake District meeting interesting people along his way. So he already knew a lot of agricultural practices going on in Cumbria, our connections been farmers ourselves. But my husband's quite high up in the ahdb, which is the agriculture and horticulture development board. And so he had a huge number of contacts, too. So the long list was about 57. Initially, until we started whittling it down. The key thing was we needed the range of farms, we wanted to represent the different types of farms, the different types of farmers, the different landscapes. But we also wanted to address the conversations of change all the the impacts that we're having the variables that we're having an impact on these farmers, but to tell them in photographs, and to be able to and that's the thing that's been a massive difference is I'm getting fan mail and handwritten letters and emails all the time even now, saying I cannot believe I knew this was happening over the over my wall. I didn't know this is what they were doing. That's why the farmer was doing that. And I can't believe I've walked in the Lake District all this time. And as a tourist, and I didn't know that's why such and such was happening. And so the fact that people are becoming more informed about those landscapes is fantastic. So I think we've kind of covered the range quite nicely.

Angela Nicholson: 34:41

And you've also exhibited some of those images or all of the images, haven't you? Yeah, we have. I think people often think, Oh, yes, we should put on an exhibition, and sort of don't really think about how much work is involved. But how have you found out that? Right. That's a lot of cash.

Amy Bateman: 34:54

I could do a podcast on how to do exhibitions? Totally. I would like to now say that If I could And I haven't made that much from my book. It is a quite successfully curate any exhibition after my experience it, it's a totally different thing than doing an exhibition lot of cash. And so yeah, so Arts Council grants are really of your own work. Obviously, this is my own work, but as a as a sort of a paid project. We needed our council grants and we needed sponsorship. And so we launched, the book was launched good. Farming is seen as something that the Arts Council at the exhibition at Rheged. And we used it as a sort of an opportunity to be able to sell more books, but also to get more like to promote. So they wanted farmers particularly to come in people involved in the project. So the gallery put record is 100 square metres, which is massive. As far as independent so low work goes I remember walking in there when everything was up on and see the exhibition their class as a minority group for us the wall, it just been just felt like a different part. I cannot believe this is all my own work in this gallery. This is just ridiculous. But of course, because it's a more involved in the arts. So we were able to tick all the boxes in that project, it's not just my pictures that I've taken as a photographer to to mean it's a project entirely on its own. So it's quite different. Yeah. But it costs 40,000 pounds to put on. respect that helped. Rheged were fantastic and their marketing team and the team up there helped enormously. But what's lovely is that we've now got this exhibition I want we toured with it, so we went to the Windermere Jetty museum. So we had 60,000 visitors

Angela Nicholson: 36:39

Wow

Amy Bateman: 36:40

up at Rheged. Then we had 40,000 at Windermere jetty, and it's going to open at the Food Museum in Stowmarket in May 2024. So I'm curating that at the moment. And that's in East Anglia. And so here in my studio, I have three warehouse crates of all the images bubble wrapped, with foam corners on ready to go down to the Food Museum. And it's the whole project. It's not just an exhibition of my work, it's the project itself. It's more than that it's much more of an immersive exhibition because we have videos. So when I was shooting for the actual project, I would also take moving footage. And so I've got like a visual impact of farming in Cumbria, there's an introductory video we did, how racism is in the countryside. And so we had an Asian group about access to the countryside. So an Asian group came to the farm, we had a really lovely chat, these Asian ladies who are adventurous, and we talked about access to the countryside use it as a race point of view. And that video is shown the whole exhibition is an immersive exhibition, because we have lots of crafts on show from the farms, a lot of produce on show. And so it's not just about the photography is much more involved. So that's ongoing. So we're gonna be a Food Museum for nine months, and then really light to try and get the exhibition into London. So I'm chasing IPs and contacts at the moment. I think it's it needs to be in front of much more people, especially urban dwellers.

Angela Nicholson: 38:10

That sounds fantastic. I'd love to see it. And, you know, if it comes to London, I think you'll get a huge audience.

Amy Bateman: 38:16

Well, that's the plan. And it's not, it's not that I want to come to London to sell more books, although it helps. It's the story that I feel like it's my reviews on d'etre at the minute to you need to tell the story so people can understand and make the right choices about their food and understand how the landscape is managed. And, you know, rewilding is such a big thing at the moment, and people want to rewild our landscape, but actually, it comes at a cost of lot of people in this country that we need to feed. And it's how do we balance farming with nature? And the stories address that, you know, there are a lot of farmers doing fantastic things, and that's what we need to keep promoting?

Angela Nicholson: 38:49

Absolutely. Well, I think it's a really good time to go to Six SheClicks. I've got 10 Questions from SheClickers. And I would like you to answer six of them, please, by choosing numbers from one to 10. So if you could choose your first number, please?

Amy Bateman: 39:03

Okay, well, my favourite number is number five.

Angela Nicholson: 39:06

That's mine as well, actually. I was used to play number five when I played football.

Amy Bateman: 39:09

Oh, I played five in hockey. There we go.

Angela Nicholson: 39:12

Oh, there we go. There we go. Okay, given the choice. Would you rather photograph people or animals?

Amy Bateman: 39:19

That's a brilliant question. I know the answer, but it's hard to justify it. I'd photograph animals any. I would photograph animals any day. They don't have to pose the don't have to smile. They're not self conscious. And capturing it in their natural environment is what I really enjoy doing. So I'm afraid it has to be animals, especially Herdwick sheep. Oh, yes. And in fact, I do do if I can promote it a little bit. I can do I do photography courses here on my farm and two of the 40 farms and people can actually come along with us and get close and personal photograph Hardwick's and I get as much joy now out of coming A way with a decent photograph is when my clients come away and they share photographs and they bought some absolute crap because it's like, Yes, more people photographing sheep, please.

Angela Nicholson: 40:09

Great. Okay. I'm just looking at the other questions here as I'm only going to pick that one. So yes. Can I have another number, please?

Amy Bateman: 40:18

Oh, okay, let's go for number three.

Angela Nicholson: 40:21

Right, okay. Do you worry that you'll be forever taking photographs of sheep? Or are the possibilities so endless? It's really not a problem. I couldn't have been more perfect. That's from Paula.

Amy Bateman: 40:36

Yeah. I love it. I am known as the sheep photographer. And here in Cumbria, there's a lot of agricultural shows, and they're becoming more popular for photographers to go and capture some different images. And so we're known as the sheep are absolutely brilliant. And to be honest, I really don't have a problem. But don't have a problem with it. Because I'm making money out of photographing sheep. I clearly can photograph other things. And I do and that's not a problem. So I don't mind that. Okay, that's good. That's good. So okay, can I have another number then please?

Angela Nicholson: 41:13

Oh, I'll have number 10, please, Angela.

Amy Bateman: 41:15

Number 10. Okay. Do your clients usually have firm ideas about the type of images they want? Or do you decide what will work best? That question is from Belinda. I would say I'd like to give people a brief. So I have a form that I will send out to my clients, and they will bring it back. So I need to know exactly what you know what the image is going to be used for, how's it going to be used, it's a printer whereby you no need to know all of that. And quite often, I do find that a smaller business a particularly when they set out, they don't actually know what they want. And so that brief form really helps because it helps them tailor into that I'm not just giving them a whole bunch of photographs, and they're just putting, they're still none the wiser of what they really want. So that really helps tailor what we need. But I think a lot of people choose me as a photographer, choose me for the style of photography that I do. And the type of photography I do already. And so I just stick to my style. And the way I like taking photographs. And it seems to work because that's what they've approached. That's why they they're using me over over somebody else, I think in the in the process.

Angela Nicholson: 42:18

Yes, I think that speaks of the importance of having the images that you want to take showing on your website as well, and your Instagram and all of those other places. Because then people see the work that you love to do. And if they like it, they come to you, rather than you know, say if you hate shooting black and white, but you've got one great one, you put it up and everybody wants you there to do black and white pictures or something.

Amy Bateman: 42:38

I would definitely yeah. And I think that's really important as a professional photographer that you actually do shoot what you enjoy, because it stops the work. Being tedious, boring, exhausting from nerves trying to do something that you're not really comfortable with. And I, I do turn down commissions that are out of my scope of practice. If I'm not really comfortable with something, I won't do it. I'm not the best person for the job and quite happy to reflect on that until give them somebody else's details. He's probably better at it than me.

Angela Nicholson: 43:10

But it's nice to be able to be in that position. I guess if you're, you know, if you're a bit more up against it, then you probably have to take everything that you're offered. But if you're not. Can I have another number, please?

Amy Bateman: 43:21

Well, I feel like I'm on Countdown. Can I have a six please? Angela?

Angela Nicholson: 43:25

You can have a six. Oh, hey, oh, who are your influences and favourite photographers? That's from Rebecca.

Amy Bateman: 43:31

Oh, that's a lovely, that's a really lovely one. I've already mentioned one photographer already. And I met Verity Milligan, and rich Jones on a sunrise photography tour here in the Lake District about six years ago, and they had a massive impact on me. I'd followed them on social media. I was a bit of a fan girl when I first met them. I just had a just a wonderful day with them both they were so generous with the time and their skills and their knowledge. And they're both really good friends now, which is a lovely position to be in.

Angela Nicholson: 44:03

Lovely.

Amy Bateman: 44:04

There's a photographer called Yann Bertrand. He's done lots of photographic books called Earth from the Air with a helicopter where before drones are about and things like that. But he did a book called Good breeding, where he went to a parish at Paris agricultural show and took these stunning photographs of the animals and their owners that were there on show. I just love things that are a bit different. I don't like to photograph things that other people have photograph. Now I have met quite a few photographers on the way talking at the photography show. I love your reviews on stuff and seeing photographs of your dog. Thank you. I think what you've done to the industry Angela is absolutely astounding. I'm on waiting one day for you to have an MBE.

Angela Nicholson: 44:54

Thank you very much.

Amy Bateman: 44:56

I think there are people in the industry who's for geography. I may not necessarily admire the photography, but I admire what they do. And you know, it's yeah, it's funny. There's some, some very influential people. I mean, Doug Chinnery, his photography is off the wall, but he was just fantastic and supportive. Well, he was sexual photography. I mean, I met Nigel Danson recently and I do love his work. His lands get extraordinary, very talented photographer. But there are there are some photographers like some of the Twitter photographers that have just, I think because they've been there, and they still comment. There's a guy called Sean who always comments. There's a guy called Steve that always guy Nice to see you again. Hmm. Tony Frazier router, whatever, people that I bumped into in the Lake District, and I think everybody has had an influence at certain points.

Angela Nicholson: 45:47

Yeah. Okay, so it's your penultimate number, then please. Oh,and I let's go for number one, please.

Amy Bateman: 45:54

Number one. Okay, this is another from Paula actually, how do you make sure your photography continues to evolve? Continue to learn, I know exactly where my weaknesses are. I do. debrief myself still, even if it's just in my head on the way back from commissions and things like that. And even my book, I go through it and think, Oh, that's not very good. I could do that better next time, or that and I haven't quite hit the field to make sure that one. And every time there's a new firmware update and make sure I'm, I'm really familiar with my technology, my equipment. I know, there's lots of things at the minute with my flash particular just got some new flash systems, I really need to learn and get to grips with. And there is so much in photography. I'm tip of the iceberg. I don't know, this loads that I don't know what I'm doing yet. And loads of terminology. I tried to fill out one of those LinkedIn forms about being a professional in the area of expertise. And I think it came up with something like 23% I knew 23% of photography, I'm just like, Yeah, I'm surprised it's that much.

Angela Nicholson: 46:56

I was going to say, that sounds quite high. Actually.

Amy Bateman: 47:01

But, I think it's just always been aware of where your weaknesses are, and trying to strengthen them, and be the best it can be. Okay,

Angela Nicholson: 47:11

So what technique is next in your pipeline to try and learn then or master? Is it to do with flash?

Amy Bateman: 47:17

Yeah, I love these. off camera flash. I think HDR is fantastic for I do like taking sort of five images in sort of indoor situations or even outdoor really, because I hate using a tripod. But the flash is something that really can just be able to fill in the shadows for outside portraits or with animals, things like that can make a massive difference to the image. But it's got to be done well, it's also can be done really poorly. And it's just practice. I think the off camera flashes won't focus on I think 2024 the flash year.

Angela Nicholson: 47:52

Right. I look forward to seeing some of those images, I mean that the great thing about digital photography is if you've got the kit cost you nothing to experiment. Absolutely. And play around and get the result with film. Good grief, cost a fortune. Can I have your last number then please?

Amy Bateman: 48:11

And oh, let's see. Let's have number nine.

Angela Nicholson: 48:17

Number nine, okay. Oh, this is from Carmen. When you're photographing person, how do you make them feel relaxed and comfortable, and yet still show their personality?

Amy Bateman: 48:29

Oh, yeah, that's a lovely question. And I of course doing 40 Farms, I had to photograph people that I didn't know. And we I always like to have a portrait of the people at the beginning of each chapter of the farms because people buy into faces, but we need those faces to be really comfortable because we won't look at the photograph. And so I think it is desperately important to capture people relaxed and natural. And so I'd often will do the portrait after I spent a bit of time with them. And I won't start off with that photograph, so that we've got to know each other a little bit. But equally my role as a physiotherapist I had to in a very short space of time interview people and get to the bottom of what was causing that problem very quickly in often quite an intimate environment you know, close to close, needing to get people on dressed to look at parts of the body and stuff. And I've got those transferable skills now that I do find made a massive difference in my photography is that it can seemingly get people quite relaxed quite comfortably find some common ground. Family is a great thing to chat about. People often will relax talking about something that feels personal to them that dogs their animals, whatever. But something positive something that's nice that that you know they want to talk to you and share with while you're taking the photos and if you can take their mind off it while you're taking their photographs. I think that's really important thing. But it did find when he was going through my photographs of 40 farms to build talks I do a behind the scenes talk for camera clips and things All of my photographs are the portraits. Everybody's laughing hysterically, and then I'll get one decent one. So I don't know what I say to them behind the scenes. We're having an absolute screaming. I've got these really hilarious photographs of laughing. And then I've got to get a, you know, mildly serious one for the book. Yes.

Angela Nicholson: 50:17

They are really nice to capture on there those those laughing photographs, but yeah, so don't you really, they're not necessarily what you need for the book. But no, exactly. Thanks for those tips. And thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today. Amy, it's been absolutely wonderful to hear from you.

Amy Bateman: 50:30

Thanks ever so much for having Angela. It's been brilliant to chat to you. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You'll find links to Amy's social media channels and website in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for she clicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.