Margaret Soraya: Finding Your Creative Voice

Margaret Soraya: 0:04

You don't learn F-stops and become a great photographer, it's not relevant. You have to learn F-stops, but that's not how you become better, you become better by becoming more self aware and more in tune with who you are. And again, this idea of coming back to what you love what you really want to do, and you know, standing your ground on it and just doing what you want to do.

Angela Nicholson: 0:25

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talked to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. This episode is with Margaret Soraya, who is a wedding photographer and a workshop and retreat leader who lives on the Isle of Harris in the Outer Hebrides. Margaret teaches others to find their voice and believes in the power of retreat and quietness, to revitalise and replenish. Hi, Margaret, thank you so much for joining me stay on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast.

Margaret Soraya: 1:01

Oh it's a pleasure, thank you for asking me.

Angela Nicholson: 1:03

I've never been to the Isle of Harris, and it sounds like a wonderful place so I wondered if you could just kind of paint a picture of where you are at the moment?

Margaret Soraya: 1:11

Yes, yes, of course. Yes. So I live in Geocrab, which is in the Bays of Harris which is the east side of Harris. So my house is very remote and very lovely. I've just coming from a walk with the dog, we tend to just walk down by the shoreline and and over the Crofts and it's just, it's just wonderful every day that I'm here now. I moved here in February, every day is like I wake up and think what wonderful place I just absolutely love it. It's very remote, so not for everybody. But I am completely and totally at home here. So it says it's amazing.

Angela Nicholson: 1:45

That does sound perfect. Okay, so I'd like to start this podcast by finding out about how you got into photography, or how you first realised that photography was going to be your career.

Margaret Soraya: 1:56

Yeah, it's a funny one, because I studied photography at university, many, many, many years ago. And I didn't finish my degree I left and then I put them in the camera for quite a long time as a little bit site. And so when I had my children I had, I've got two boys. When Cameron was born, I decided that I was going to literally just start up a photography business, it was very random in a way. But also I was at home, I need to we need some extra income. And I thought well, can I go back to my photography roots and become a professional. So it was very much a business decision rather than a creative decision at that point. So that was 20 years ago, or 1919 or 20 years ago, and I started my business. That long ago, I've been a wedding commercial, I've done architecture, I've done travel, I've done all sorts of all sorts of what you name, I've done it over the years to build that side of the business. So but more recently, I decided about five years ago that I really wanted to get back more and more into the landscape, which is where my heart meaning lies. So that process of being able to do that I started to leverage almost the wedding photography, which began to flourish once I started coming over to the other house and photographing weddings on beaches, because that's what I love, I love the beaches I love outdoors, so that the weddings were kind of leaning towards I was leaning towards that. And then I was shooting over here and I was shooting landscapes and building that up. Because of that high need to to and it was this was it was my day job. My wedding photography was a day job. So I couldn't just say, Okay, I'm not doing any wedding photography anymore. I'm gonna be a landscape photographer. It because that's not so easy. So I sort of transitioned into that about four years ago, and five years ago, I started quite landscapes, teaching leading leading workshops, and which I've kind of moved into retreats, and a bit more creative now. And I also have sold exhibited work as well. So my life in the photography industry has been, you know, it's been it's been 20 years in different formats. I'm now coming to a place where it's becoming more and more in line with what I want to do. So so that's where I am just now that was a really brief history. I don't know if that helps.

Angela Nicholson: 4:18

No, that's great. What was it about the course that you were doing that made you stop it we disillusioned with what you've been taught or the way you were being taught?

Margaret Soraya: 4:27

It was criticism. Definitely. It was very, very simple critiques has ever been about bad critiques. I was also very quiet. I was very unconfident in myself. I didn't. I was working very intuitively. I was actually photographing in the water at that time. So when I was 20 years old, I was photographing exactly like I'm photographing today, but I was doing it intuitively back then without the thought of what should I be doing what what's going to be pleasing the cheetahs what's going to be pleasing? What's going to be marking? Well, I was just doing it And that was a great thing that should have been embraced by by everybody around me. But it wasn't it was criticised. And it broke me I think from from being probably the the lack of confidence, the lack of ability to express myself. And certainly, now looking back at that I knew that was simply because I am an introvert and I hadn't yet found that confidence and that ability to say, Look, I know what I'm doing. This is work that I want to produce, this is coming from my heart, and to stand up for myself, so I just kind of crumbled. And I, it's led me to have a very, very much a sort of awareness that when we critique or judge other people's work, it's, you've got to be very careful. And this this need for positive encouragement is, is very high. Because when we produce work, any work, whether it's any sort of artwork, it comes from your heart, it comes from within you. And if somebody simply turns around, so that's the well, you know, puts you down and say, That's nonsense. It can really hurt. Yeah. And it doesn't help. I don't think it helps it. So if you can comment, like a critique from a more positive angle, and if he can teach from a from a way of exploring why that person's doing it, why are they why was why was I photographing in the sea, and I was going in it in my surfboard into the sea and taking my camera, and nobody stopped to ask me. Why, where did that come from? Is that part of your story? Is that part of something that's that you that you love, that all they saw was pretty images that they didn't understand and and could criticise that? So? So yes, it's had a profound effect on me, I think, because it stopped me for 15 years, 15 years, maybe. is stopped me photographing, and also, but it's also now now I look back, and it's been a positive thing, because it's led me to understand, but more about how we should treat other people who are looking to us for help and advice.

Angela Nicholson: 7:00

Yeah, I think the power of positive enforcement is is incredible, actually, you know, you say something good to somebody, it can change their whole day, it can change their whole outlook. Yeah. Thinking about it now, you know, I've made career decisions on the basis of a, a one line from from a manager, you know, they've said something positive, and it's really sort of engaged me, and I thought I'm good at this. Yeah. And that's all I needed to know. And I was off doing things, you know, and it's, it can have a major impact on you.

Margaret Soraya: 7:28

Absolutely, absolutely. It's really, really important. So I think that we still bear that in mind. As we as we go in and, you know, put our images and competitions or go for critiques, you have to be very careful who you hand that to. I think that's that's all I'm saying. Be careful who you allow, allow to judge your work.

Angela Nicholson: 7:48

Yes. Because we're often, I think, much more aware of the negative things have been said, you know, when we could have 10 people in a room, nine of them say something really positive and one person says something a bit negative. And what's the one thing we walk out of the room remembering? It's a real tough one.

Margaret Soraya: 8:04

Absolutely. It's It's hard, isn't it? Yeah. And I still do that. I mean, it's still relevant today. We wouldn't we human? That's that's how it is. We will we want to succeed, we want to do well. And but I think there's a real power in that, as you say that. Absolutely. You said it. Absolutely. Right there that that positive encouragement is worth so so so much.

Angela Nicholson: 8:27

Do you think that your lecturers were trying to push you in a more commercial direction? Was it sort of, well, they couldn't see where you would sell your work or how it would develop into a business. So they were trying to push you in a different direction? Do you think that was their kind of driving force?

Margaret Soraya: 8:40

No, because my coursework was actually called photography in the art. So it was very artistic, almost to artists, that that was the problem. They were going for this kind of like this kind of grungy kind of, I don't know how to even know how to explain it, I was producing fairly beautiful images. And that wasn't seemed to be the thing to do at the time. So they were they were, they were so for instance, so I went to critiques and this is the one of the ones that always stands out my mind. And it was a, it was an image of the hands of Scotland, which had just fallen in love with, with a lock in everything. And it was just completely torn apart. And I produced I presented it as part as a self portrait, which was like, Okay, it's a little bit edgy, but I felt like that was me, I felt that that was where I was most at home. And that was where I was happy. So that was an image of of me as person. So they totally tore that apart. And then they went on to the next person who had I understand tearing that apart because I wasn't there was I was supposed to take a picture of myself, you know, that's what I was supposed to do here, but it didn't. And so that's fair enough. But then they went on to the next person who put an image of a building which was like a derelict building with and she went about it the same way but in a different way in a more sort of acceptable a unique way. If that, and she was praised for it. So it wasn't the fact that it wasn't in the picture. You know, it seemed it was okay when when she did it, but when I did a pretty picture, it wasn't so. So you know, it's but I just I just don't think that at the end of the day, these people are just people, you know, and it's just their view of what what's right and what's wrong. And we can we can judge images, technically, we can judge him as ministers emotionally. But at the end of the day, you have to really be careful with who that person is, and what they're looking for. Because we all respond differently to images.

Angela Nicholson: 10:36

Yeah. So why is wedding photography?

Margaret Soraya: 10:39

Very, very simple, because it I was looking for something to earn money for session. I mean, I think one of the things that isn't talked about so much as this kind of the, the business side of things, and I find it interesting that at the time, I had a baby and a toddler. And we were living in a council house, and we did an extra income. And I was thinking I was trying to figure out how I was going to do this with a baby and a toddler. So I made a website, and I said, Well, okay, I'll do everything. I'll do nursery photos, I'll do passport, photos, anything, I'll put them all on there. And wedding photography was just one of the ones that it well, it's just, for me, I got good of it good at it very quickly, I was in an area where there was a little bit of demand for it. And it pays well. So that all those things came together. And that's the thing that came up with this website that I put up while Okay, what am I going to do more, I'm going to do more of the things that earns me the money, the fastest and best up. So I did you know, I'm good with people as well. So I suppose that's that's another element to it. And it just it just flourished. And because it flourished it, I just did more of it. And it became bigger and bigger. So you know, it's quite factual question. It was just, it was just what, what? What went well, basically Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 11:58

It was a business decision, as you said.

Margaret Soraya: 12:00

Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and actually, I still shoot weddings to this day. And although that businesses, I've made it smaller consciously, I still do them. So and it's, it's, you know, it's part of my life. And what I've done now is I've adapted them to my lifestyle. So I've adapted them to, I'm always looking at like, what is it that's in line with me as a person? So what do I know? So this, this concept of values in life, so what do you value in life? What do you love in life? Where do you live? You know, what do you what do you like to be around? It's really important, if you're thinking about what what do I want to do photography, to think about, well, who are you as a person, and that's gonna fit you better if you if you do the things that that align with your values. So when I was shooting like big, fabulous, expensive weddings that that were full of, you know, big numbers and fancy locations and, and whatnot, and fancy shoes, and, you know, you picture, I just didn't like it. Because that's not part of my life. That's not me. I spend my days barefoot on a beach and I don't don't value commodities, I don't value anything. That's a value, being outdoors, and being in nature. So what I'm trying to say is, I now shoot weddings, basically elopements on beaches, and for people who love the outdoors. And maybe they don't even have a pair of shoes, they might have a pair of wellies, and and we get on well, and I enjoy it. So I've just adapted. Yeah, I've been have been fortunate enough to be able to do that.

Angela Nicholson: 13:33

Yes, but it takes a little bit of life experience, I think to get to that point, because you don't know what you don't like, necessarily until you try something, particularly if you're building up a business that oh, yeah, you know, if I could do that destination wedding or this and that and, and then you start doing it. Yeah, great, great. I'm doing it and then you think God, I hate it. You know, but you've tried it at least to find that out?

Margaret Soraya: 13:54

Absolutely. It's like it. It's like experimentation, it's like with any sort of photography, isn't it, you've got to sort of try a few things to realise that you don't like them. I think it also comes as you get older as well you start to realise that the things that you think you should be doing, or the things that society upholds is as good things like well maybe just fitting in I suppose we spend a lot of our lives fitting in to society and and doing things like that we should be doing more but you know, we're buying the house and then we're getting this and we're in a good car because it looks good to have a good car and you know all of these things and we sort of go on autopilot for quite a lot of our lives. And then there's sort of statistic that around about 35 We we you know you can eat often turn around and go where did I go? You know what, what happened to me and what I love and what's what's real to me, I've just kind of, you know, we spent all of these years fulfilling what society and what our family and friends think we should be doing and it happens to quite a lot of people. It certainly happened to me. So speaking of experience, went turned around and went, Oh my goodness. Who am I? This is not in line with who It's about me as a person. And often that comes with a jolt in life. And again, I'm talking Ferb, and talking from experience, because that was when everything fell apart for me at 35. And it was the worst of times, it was an absolutely dreadful time of life for me, because my marriage, well, I left, I left my age, but, but in, in doing so I left everything behind. So I walked away from literally everything. And we had to leave house and literally everything that we owned. So I had two young boys at this point, they were like five and seven, and we had to go and start again. But it also opened up this new life for me, where I began to go actually, this that wasn't right for me, I had to leave that behind in order to to go, I want. So I wouldn't be living here today. And Harris living this amazing life, and so, so happy and so so like me, if I hadn't let go the things that weren't right for me. And so I think that sometimes that I don't know, I'm going here with this. I think it's to do with the sort of photography that we do sometimes. My point is that sometimes we go along with things because it's acceptable, because it is kind of like it's the end thing or wins a competition. And we stopped listening to our hearts, and we stopped. We stopped doing the things that we're really truly connected to. And as you say, we have to experiment with things and then leave them behind and then go with thing that you absolutely feels right. And you you, you love and and this idea of self awareness, I suppose is the big thing. That's the hard thing isn't it's like if I said too often say to people when they say I don't know what to photographs, like, Well, what do you love? And so many people don't know what they love in life.

Angela Nicholson: 16:49

Yeah, that yeah, that is quite a challenge actually. Because when you said that I instantly thought 'I love the coast'. But then I say, actually, that's quite a long way away from here I went South Oxfordshire. So you know, it's about as far as we can get from the coast in the UK, but rivers and forests as well. So it's yeah, it's that that is an interesting question. Actually, I think if you had to sit down and write those sorts of things that you really love, yeah. But if you write what you say about having a jolt, or some sort of break in your life, or you know, pause in your life, where you have opportunity to rethink things, because you need a bit of space to sort of process all this information and where you are, we'd like to be on I think, actually, you know, I hate to be the one that brings up COVID. But the pandemic did give that pause to a lot of people to sort of think through what they were doing. And you know, there's lots of people sort of said, after the pandemic hatch, you know, what, I don't want to be in the office five days a week, and if that if you don't like that, then I'll go and get another job. You know, and maybe they only go in two or three days a week now or not at all. But you know, a lot of people changed, how they, how they work, how they operate. Yes, as a result of that. So is that kind of space, I guess, to think about things?

Margaret Soraya: 17:56

Yeah, we all need space, don't we? You know, we forget, don't worry, though, we need that time, we need we need time to, to think and to consider and to and to and to create, we need time to feel inspired first as well. So, you know, yeah, things do happen in our lives that create creates that space. And definitely COVID was one of those those times. bad or good, you know, different for everybody. But it was a little bit of a jolt for everyone.

Angela Nicholson: 18:24

Yes, I might be wrong. But you seem to have moved around quite a bit. I think you've moved. You've lived in a few places in in Scotland, I think somewhere I saw you mentioned living in Cornwall for a while that you grew up in Manchester, where any of your moves, I know going to Harris was purely or mainly because of you know, photography and good for your soul. But were any or other moves purely for photography for your business?

Margaret Soraya: 18:47

No, unfortunately, unfortunately, they weren't. But maybe I'm maybe different to other people in my life path are quite open about this. But all the moves that I've had have not been good moves or positive moves have been moves out of necessity. And my marriage wasn't a good one. And so it you know, it just led us to have to move a lot and then when it when it broke up, we mean the boys had to move quite a bit just from rented property to antipoverty, unfortunately. So the move to Harris, for me is quite, is quite marked, because it's the best one that I've chosen. For myself. It's the one that I've had the vision for, for for the best part of 14 years. I've wanted to come over here and I've waited it out until until my children left home. And then they left home in September and I was like right you're doing it and going to do it somehow or the other so it's like it's almost like coming home and I think sometimes even we can see people can't wait sometimes you look at people who Oh, my gosh, just moved out to house isn't she lucky? Well, if you look at my past and this is really the first home I feel like I've had and the first time that I've had the time to for my son Self to be creative and to be outdoors and to to live almost. And it's been a hard earned. And I've worked hard, very, very hard for it. And it was it wasn't easy actually to find a house here either. So I'm very, very grateful for it. And it's it's going to lead to new new work and new directions and, and hopefully a better health and happiness. And so I suppose to answer your question, it wasn't, none of it was to do with the photography or the work, it was always a Yeah, it was always a necessity. And I always just adapted around it. And one thing, just just to say one thing, I'm so grateful to photography, or wedding photography, in particular, because that definitely saved me in a lot of ways. Because when, when I suddenly was a single parent, I found that I could support the children without having to go and benefits and little girls last. So, you know, wedding photography was just there for me. And I could look after the children. And you know, it's a lot of juggling, but it was there and the business I could build it opened and continue. And so I just think it's, it's, it's just been such a gift for me, I'm so grateful to it.

Angela Nicholson: 21:09

Oh, that's wonderful. A lot of people when they think about wedding photography, you know, they may be keen photographers, but then if the thought of doing a wedding they find really stressful, they wouldn't want to do it because of the all the responsibility. But have you ever felt the burden of that? Or do you just enjoy doing it? Or is it's kind of very much, I know what I'm doing. And it's a process that you go through?

Margaret Soraya: 21:31

Oh no, the big weddings are really tough, really tough. They're like the biggest, hardest training you can get as a photographer. I really think you know, anybody that kind of does that we used to be this thing where you know, you're just a wedding photographer. Oh, my goodness, you know, some of the situations that you're thrown into, you just have to deal with different lighting, you have to get to know you get to know you kit, and yet the technicals instant without even having to look at the camera, you need to know what you're doing. So I think hats off to all those, those wedding photographers that do these, these bigger weddings. For me, it was always this Yes, always massive pressure on the day. But I know I know, over the years, I knew I'd get it. I've never, you know, I've never made any massive mistakes. And everyone's always been really happy. But the amount of stress that's involved and the physical stress as well over a 12 hour wedding of walking around with cameras and not getting fed and not in water and things like that. All of those things. You know, we all know it. Really tough, really tough industry to be in, but certainly there. That's why I've moved a bit to elopements now I just I just do one hour coverage on the beach and it's just great. Sounds perfect. It's it's brilliant. I've had to move away from it because I don't think I could have kept doing that for sort of it's I do some big weddings. And I you know, it'll always spell always manage. But it's maybe not why not as a stress levels that wants to be out anymore. So the beaches are open so far, far nicer. more pleasant. So but yeah, it's a tough it's a tough game wedding photography.

Angela Nicholson: 23:07

Oh, yes, I think so. I'm always very interesting. Because you know, after you've been doing it for five or six years, and you know how long it takes you to really get. So you'd like to say you know, you kit, you know how to deal with anything that's thrown at you. That's fine. Oh, can you put each interval individual day to get through and you don't quite know what's going to come up. But when it comes up, you know how to deal with it. But that first wedding or those first few weddings, good grief. You know, what, what's the stress like there? How did you get through that? Did you have any doubts and think right, that's it? I can't do this.

Margaret Soraya: 23:39

Oh, yeah. All the time? I definitely. Definitely all the time. That was that was that was hard. It's always it was. It was just it's just a buildup of confidence, isn't it and knowledge. And I think one of the things that we forget in in any, in any genre of photography is that practice that practice is key. You get better inevitably, well, hopefully, inevitably, you'll get better with anything that you do repeatedly. And you you learn you learn from your mistakes, don't you? And so over the years, it just got easier because I I knew I knew exactly what was doing the first first few were just, yeah, awful. But the images weren't awful. I don't think the images are full. So but it's that learning curve, you know, and yeah, yeah, that the longer anything goes on, the more that you practice, the better that you get. And I think we should always remember largely, because sometimes people come to you and they say, Well, I'm not very good. Well, so how long have you been doing it? Two weeks. Keep going, keep going. It will get better.

Angela Nicholson: 24:41

Yes, yes. And the other thing I find is that people say Oh, I can't you know, I 'I've been shooting weddings for two years. That's fine, blah, blah, blah. I've been asked to do a newborn shoot and I'm really worried and I've never done this'. Well, yes, of course you're gonna be nervous because you haven't done that before. But you know, being a wedding photographer is very different. Don't don't expect, okay, you know, and how to use your kit, you know what apertures and shutter speed but it's you know it's a new area to learn but you wouldn't automatically be expected to know that.

Margaret Soraya: 25:11

Exactly, exactly. And I do think though I do think that if you if you can be a wedding photographer, you can photograph anything. Honestly, I really do believe that I think that that with that with that you can do anything you can do any sort of Delphi once you start to get to grips with light and your kit, you know, that's just once you can get the kit learning and outdoor out the way so you know what you're doing. And then you can understand light, then it's all it's all the same. You can you can apply the principles of that to any type of photography, and then there's just a sort of the handling the parents would be the thing. The newborn, so you've got the the ability to deal with people as well.

Angela Nicholson: 25:55

Yeah, it's just, you know, dealing with the baby itself, you know, where do you put it? And how do you prop it up? And now it's awake now. The whole different thing, but yes, I know what you mean. It is a massive, not easy, very effective training ground. I think wedding so like you say there's so many different variables. Oh, yeah, totally. Say someone. I don't know Harris at all. So are there any other professional wedding photographers or other professional photographers on Harris?

Margaret Soraya: 26:23

There might be another photographer in Lewis, another couple of dogs and Lewis? How is actually the only wedding photographers? This one on us that I know well. But it's yeah, it's Louis and Louis and house are joined, but obviously has its own island at the bottom. It's quite small. Right. Yeah, I'm probably the only wedding photographer. There were a few malls, a few commercials? Yeah, there's not many people here. So. So when I'm holding on, you're about that. I think it's just the lack of lack of people.

Angela Nicholson: 26:57

The reason I ask is, you know, often business advice is these days, seems to be to, to niche down, you know, to find your niche and really excel in that. So by moving somewhere, like Harris, if you've almost got exclusivity there, then, you know, that's that's a good thing for your business. But obviously, you also have to attract people into that area for weddings or elopements. I mean, maybe it just sells itself these days.

Margaret Soraya: 27:24

Well, it's been a funny year, actually. Because I think over the past that well, many years, for the past 10 years, it's been very busy here for weddings. And then this year, it's suddenly dropped a little better now slightly. I wonder why that is. But I think he's just tourism. So people are going abroad again. So there is those outside influences. So obviously, it's a small area. So it's not like being in you know, in Edinburgh, or Glasgow, where there's a million winners going on, and you've got competition. There's literally, you know, X amount of weddings on houses. And that's really it. But I do, I believe in niching down, I believe in finding the thing that you really connect to and it that's how you stand out. Otherwise, you're just competing with everybody else doing the same thing. So I do believe that I do believe that's really helped me. Definitely to, to, to, to get through over the years, and also kind of evolving, evolving is a good thing to start. And this process again, coming back to that self awareness of what is it that you do well? Why do you do it? Well, and how do you put that through into your if you've got your website and your social media? And who are you and why would people want to buy you almost the day? I think there's a million good wedding photographers, I don't think there's a million better wedding photographers and me, yet somebody still might choose me because of my because of who I am or my personality or how it comes through. So I think it's really important to be that, that that, that bit of awareness by yourself and how you you pull that through in your businesses is super important.

Angela Nicholson: 28:59

Yeah, I guess you think about the people you're drawn to. And they are automatically like to be drawn to you as well. So it's kind of market yourself towards them. But now you also do workshops, and you run retreats, how did you introduce those two elements? What triggered you to want to do that?

Margaret Soraya: 29:18

I suppose it was the desire to get more into the landscape. So the weddings were quite, I was doing about, I don't know, 50 weddings a year and I was going well, okay, I want to drop that and be be more it's quite a lot. It was quite a lot. Yeah. There's a lot of them were small. So you know. So, you know, that's just it was just a desire to get back to the landscape, but it was a conscious desire. It was like, I think it's time now to move into being outdoors more. And I was like, Well, how do I do that? Well, okay, so how do you be be a professional landscape photographer. It's not that easy if you need to earn an income. So if you're if you're going to teaching then That's one of the, you know, easier ways to do that. So I thought why not just start a workshop business? And so I started that in 2018. And it just did really well. I used again, I went back to the drawing board and went like, what what, what am I going to do different? What? What am I going to bring differently to the table than, than everybody else? And why would they want to come in and vote with me, there's loads of other people doing it. So I introduced this idea of it being maybe slower, more gentle, more open to women, a lot of I do get a lot of women photographers who feel and maybe feel a little bit more intimidated by the thought of spending a week with with male landscape photographers, whether you know whether it's much right along, but sometimes these little male dominated landscape workshops are quite intimidating, I wouldn't go on one, I'd be a bit scared and not keeping up. So that's where that's where I thought I will go more towards. And as it's evolved in, in my evolving yet, I'm evolving it more into retreat style. So it's getting even more gentler, even more introducing these ideas of taking time out and looking at yourself and the concepts behind your photography as well. So it's all very different than a very kind of technical kind of charging around workshop that you sometimes might might find.

Angela Nicholson: 31:20

Yeah, cuz sometimes you look at the itinerary for a workshop, you think, crikey, you know, up up before dawn and bed after sunset. And obviously, Joe, also sort of during the evening, there's some sort of critique going on and rushing around during the day. Yeah, it's quite usually quite an exhausting experience, I should think if somebody comes on one of your retreats, what can they anticipate?

Margaret Soraya: 31:41

Well, I've just, just launched some real retreats. We're introducing writing and painting and photography and creative photography. So and this is a new thing for next year, actually, that the sort of workshops that I have been doing. So we'll go back to those which I've been doing for the past few years, it's much more slower paced. So being much more mindful of people getting cold, but you know, how people are feeling, you know, do you really want to get up at four o'clock? And then I haven't been made to to, you know, walk for five miles to get to the hill for sunrise, can I do this, you know, and thinking, Well, some people aren't as able as other people, some people don't want to be marched around. So we would maybe go out for maybe go out for sunrise, but then go back in for a few hours rest. So have breakfast, have a bit of gentle time, and then go back out. So a lot of lot of in and out a lot of discussion, I'd say a bit more thoughtful discussion, is where was where I'm at. So we definitely won't be out all day. And if anybody would, if anybody felt cold or uncomfortable that I'd always be very much aware of that, because that's the last thing that we want, you know, if you're going somewhere to like to be in the landscape, if you're cold and tired is not going to be creative, are you so no, I think it's just a more gentle openness, I think and definitely no climbing masses of hills, I'm all I'm all that water and kind of like, you know, we also take like tea and coffee and cake location with us and sometimes sit and have a picnic on the beach. And that's all part of it, isn't it, it's all part of your experience. But but the retreats next year, are going to be very much about more open time. So rather than teaching, allowing people to have the time and space to connect themselves, which is a hard thing for busy. But I think that's where you get really good results, where you've got more more even more gentle time, more alert, more time to do your own thing to go off walking by yourself to go and just sit in the landscape and write or to just notice and take even more time.

Angela Nicholson: 33:55

Sounds very nice, as clear that peace and quiet and solitude are very important to you. Did it take you a long time to realise that? Or have you always known that?

Margaret Soraya: 34:04

I think I've always known up I've always fought against it because again, we come back to that thing where society thinks that we should be loud and taking part and you know that entertainments good and being you know, I don't know how many times I've been told to, you know, to to get more involved or to be to speak up or whatever, you know, but as that as I learned about introversion and the strengths of introverts and their values of being alone, and the value of being you know, quiet and and by myself and understand the connection that when I did that my best work would happen. So the times that I've been completely cut off for a couple of days something has happened where I've either written something or created something that's been just changed things. So once I started to notice that I do more of that. And I just think that we should It's very hard for somebody to sit with themselves quietly. And we're in this sort of age where we don't have a few moments where everything's quiet. And when we're sitting with our own thoughts. I mean, if you think about the last time that you just sat there in silence, it's really quite difficult to, to, to remember that and not to be in communication. So not have your phone pinging at you. And this kind of, is kind of a constant distraction. We're constantly distracted and needing entertainment now. So when we step back from that, are we going into this space of being in nature, and being alone, that's when your your, your real thoughts come come forward? And that's when you can start to think well, actually, what do I love? What do I value in life and all these things, these things start happening. And it's easier for an introvert to do that an extrovert naturally gained energy by being around people more. So as an introvert, it's almost easier to be there's a high proportion of landscape photographers that are introverts. And that's because you're naturally happy to be alone in the landscape. That said, there's also great value in companionship, and this sort of connection that we're doing now, that's amazing. And connect it being in that kind of that, like that retreat space where you're bouncing off people, and you're getting ideas, really, you know, connecting to you and exciting because I get very excited when I speak to people about things I feel really strongly about. Whereas I don't want to sit and just chitchat. You know, it's just not that's a classy enjoy it, then you just don't want to be at a party or in a pub, just talking nonsense, because that's a waste of time. Right. And so that's just how I feel but connecting deeply with people that understand and are creative, it's amazing said this The to two things going on there.

Angela Nicholson: 36:53

So when you, when you're having a workshop, I'm just thinking about your being introvert and liking solitude and this that the other bit and then leading a workshop where you're the centre of attention for your students or clients, whatever you want to call them. How do you balance that is that when you are sort of you're prepared for it, and you've got something exciting to tell them and inspire them?

Margaret Soraya: 37:15

Yes, it is actually the bar of where I'm fine, as long as people are getting it and, and helping people. And I'm able to communicate these things. And these thoughts and these these connections, I suppose. And they are enjoying that and embracing that. It's it's hard, you know, workshops are always going to be hard for six days on the go. So what they'll do is I build in two days, completely alone time at the end of it. And then I just recharge, I just recharge then but I'm definitely very much fulfilled as a when I'm helping other people and I'm sharing these sorts of same thing was public speaking, a lot of people say, You're not an introvert, you're really good at speaking. I don't mind speaking in front of a lot of people. But that's I've learned how to do Yeah, that's a learned skill for me. And it's, it's fine, as long as I'm talking about something that I think somebody will be inspired by or somebody will be helped by. And it doesn't matter if it's one person. And I certainly know that certainly when when talking about introversion, it helps a lot of people feel okay again, because a lot of people feel like they're inferior because they're quiet and quiet as an inferior. Quiet is actually very, very strong. And actually, just whilst up talking about that. It was Susan Kane's book, quiet the power of know the power of introverts in a world that can't stop speaking. That's what changed everything for me when I started learning about it. So. So yes, it's it's a balance, I have to recharge at the end of a workshop. Definitely. But it's okay.

Angela Nicholson: 38:57

Yeah, introversion is often mistaken for shyness and lack of confidence. That must get quite frustrating, but you're clearly Yeah, you know, I know you said that. You've had periods where you've not been confident, and I think we all do, but you don't lack confidence. You just feel like you say, you don't like sitting in the pub chatting to people for hours. It's it's not what you do, but you're quite happy to present to people you're happy to have podcasts that you present a podcast, you know.

Margaret Soraya: 39:22

Yeah, so no, definitely not shy. Definitely not unconfident by was definitely what I was before I started to understand myself and during the times when I still felt like I was I was a second class citizen because I wasn't gregarious or outgoing or, you know, the life of the party or you know, all of those things that make you feel a bit inferior when you're younger. When I started to learn about it and understand myself and this whole self awareness game coming through, then about confidence just rose with that and with finding the ability to talk this has taken years to be able to talk I'd have been So nervous talking in front of ya. Anyone, you know, years getting was seven or eight years ago I started practising, it's been a practice and repeat, and then gain a bit of confidence, you don't just get confidence, you have to, to, to practice something and do it well, and then feel better about it. And now I love it. Now I really enjoy talking like we're talking, I think it's great. Oh good, good. A bit of self awareness goes a long, long way, doesn't it? I think it's the key to your creativity and your photography and developing your photography. That's a big statement. But I think that's it. There's a quote from a lovely photographer, John Barclay from America and, and he said, we bring ourselves to our work and the more we understand ourselves better our work will be. And I think that is how you learn photography, You don't learn F-stops and become a great photographer, it's not relevant. You have to learn F-stops, but that's not how you become better, you become better by becoming more self aware and more in tune with who you are. And again, this idea of coming back to what you love what you really want to do, and you know, standing your ground on it and just doing what you want to do. So I really believe it's the biggest thing that we can work on.

Angela Nicholson: 41:13

Fantastic. Okay, well, I think it's probably a good point to move on to six from SheClicks. And I've got 10 Questions from SheClicks. Members, I'm going to ask you to answer six of them, please. So could you start by picking a number from one to 10? Please? seven? Number seven. Okay. Does your current business and lifestyle correspond with what you visualised say 10 years ago? Or is it been less structured and more of a natural development? That question is from Philippa.

Margaret Soraya: 41:42

My business and my life now is like a dream that I had 10 years ago. I didn't, I wouldn't. Some days, I wake up, and I think I'm doing this I am so lucky, not lucky. I'm so grateful and honoured and just happy that I'm living this life and live and working in this business. And it's come from hard work, but it's more than I ever wanted. So yeah, it's it's been amazing. And I think part part of it's been a vision, and part of has been a persistence and dedication to it, because it takes takes that long to to get there. So I think that answered the question. Yeah,

Angela Nicholson: 42:23

I think so too. And you said that it was about 14 years ago that you first started thinking about moving to Harris has tried. So that's a big part. That's mapped across.

Margaret Soraya: 42:32

Yeah. 14. Definitely the move. I didn't quite see the business moving over here, then. And then as the years went on, I realised that the business could move and thrive here. So yeah, yeah, it's been a long time coming.

Angela Nicholson: 42:45

So could I have another number, please? Number one, number one out, okay. Jane says, I'm interested in your retreats, but as a fairly outgoing person, but not loud. Will she fit in?

Margaret Soraya: 42:57

I'm sure she would fit. Yeah, it's not introverts only, you know, retreats, everybody needs to retreat. Everybody needs to that time to to look at, if you want to be a better photographer, go and take a retreat. Doesn't matter whether you're an introvert extrovert. I think it's, I take retreats now. And that's one, one of the biggest things that I've learned is that I go on retreats and the dirt. They're not always photography retreats, they can be they look very, very different. And it just depends on what I need in my life at that time. Who do I need in my life? What do I need in my life? Where do I need to be? And I think we need to always look at that always, you know, think at this point, what is it that I need? And so I went to Italy with Sean Tucker on a creative retreat last year. And I didn't take my camera. So him here it was that was like I ended up writing. And that's been amazing. That's been pivotal in my development. And all these things that I've done over the years, I think they're all to do with what do you need at the time? Who do you need to be around? Who do you want to be around? Who's going to show you the way and uplift you and guide you? And I think it's really important to think of things like that, and I'm going off topic there a little bit, but I don't think it matters where they are. You don't have to be an introvert to go on a retreat, you definitely go on retreats as well. And completely fine.

Angela Nicholson: 44:24

Good news, Jane. There you go. Yeah. And Sean Tucker, is there a really interesting thought provoking guy's nose? Yeah, I could. I imagine that was an enjoyable retreat. Yeah. Oh, amazing. Yes, yes. Recommended. So you've had numbers one and seven could have another number, please. Three. Number three, you use slow shutter speed quite a lot for your work. Does the process of making these images ie the fact that it takes longer? Yeah, help you feel the mood that you're wanting in the image? That question is from Janina.

Margaret Soraya: 44:53

Yeah, probably it probably does. Actually. Indeed. It gives that kind of I think the main thing for me is that it gives her a more artistic look to the image. So I've obviously I've come from a background of, of painting and that kind of, you know, creativity. So I think that's, it also gives that kind of soft and gentle look as well. So it's painterly, but soft and gentle. And then if you sort of look at me as a person, I'm not kind of you. So here we go, we're gonna look at somebody and think for what's their, what their, what their photography look like them. And I hope it does a little bit strange in the toilet like a wave. But do I? Am I soft? and gentle? Am I quiet? Am I slow? Yes, all of those things. So I'm kinda matching that. So you know, if you think about, if you think about somebody that's got like a loud, louder, they'll call it a harsher, they are brighter, you know, really bright colours. And they're, everything's in focus, and everything's a bit more kind of like wide angle and sort of geometric and, you know, that's going to fit a different type of person. So their specialty is definitely subcut. It wasn't consciously baked, I've just done it naturally, again, I've just allowed that natural instinct to come through. So. Yes, so I think that answered that question.

Angela Nicholson: 46:18

Yeah, that's really interesting. Are you aware of 100 For The Ocean, which was a print sale for ocean conservation that was set up by Cristina Mittermeier and her partner and 100 photographers donated images that were printed, and and people could buy them for a cup mug, I think it started at $100 for an a4 print, and he or she could buy a three prints. And what I find really interesting is that, you know, put on SheClicks, and lots of people were selecting the images they wanted to buy, because there's some fantastic work there. And normally, you'd expect to be paying 1000s of dollars for these images rather than 100. And what was really interesting was to see which images people selected, and there were some white they actually commented, you know, all that's very you and you do like maybe it's the type of images she creates, or the type of person but you could see that that you understood that why they would have been attracted to that image.

Margaret Soraya: 47:09

Ah, yes. So it works both ways. Yeah, that's interesting that isn't it that works for us. Yeah, you also select this sort of images that feel more like you don't know. That's, that's really interesting. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 47:20

Okay, so can we have a fourth number, please? Number 10. Ooo, in a recent podcast, you

Margaret Soraya: 47:24

Number 10. said that you need to photograph somewhere for 10 years before you really start to get somewhere with it. So how do you keep it fresh during those 10 years, I always wonder about the sort of things that I say on my podcast that will ever get picked up on something else I say that's like, obviously nonsense. Also, as a good one. I like the like, they've been listening to our podcast. That was that was in relation to I, I think I believe that. The more that you photograph replays, the more that you become deeper connected to it. So the more powerful the images become. So you know, when we were trotting around the the world photographing him, she's never going to get that real deep connection, never going to really know. And understand that land. And for me, that's really, really important. It might not be important for everybody, but definitely for me, it's something that I feel like the more that I photograph, so Harris, the more that I understand it, the more that I love it, the more powerful the images become, but quite rightly, you then have to start going, actually, I've done that, you know, how do I do this different? And for me, that's been really interesting, because what I've done recently is I've said, Well, how else can I have can I photograph Harris have been photographing from the beach, and I've been doing this slash ad spin and the lovely, I love them. But you know, what's, what's new. So I started getting in the water about four years ago, and I started photographing in the water and seeing the land from from in the water, and under the water. I've just had an exhibition actually with my underwater images. And that's been so much fun. And I wouldn't have done that. I don't think if I hadn't been here for that long photographing and hadn't thought, well, I need to do something and develop. And then after this, I'll probably I'm starting to think well, what what else can I do you know, where else can I go with this? And it does, it keeps you fresh, it keeps you on your toes because you do have to keep moving? Because otherwise it does get a little bit tedious.

Angela Nicholson: 49:25

Do you find that you get more picky about the weather conditions in which you're going to take photographs?

Margaret Soraya: 49:30

Yeah, yeah, very much sir. I suppose because I'm here now all the time. Like if you if you if you came over for a week, you just want to make the most of it only so you're gonna go out at every opportunity. But now Now that I'm here all the time. I'm close. Oh, yeah, it's not quite not quite right. I think I'd stay. So this is a great, great opportunity to say that you know, Sailor will really wait until the weather's absolutely right before and going out. So I guess that's a guess that's evolving as well and developing as a photographer.

Angela Nicholson: 50:00

I think so. Okay, your penultimate number, please.

Margaret Soraya: 50:04

Oh, number nine,

Angela Nicholson: 50:06

Number nine. Oh, so what's in the pipeline? Philipa says she's seen your business grow over the last few years and wonder whether there are more plans that we don't know about yet.

Margaret Soraya: 50:15

There's always more plans.

Angela Nicholson: 50:18

Are they secret?

Margaret Soraya: 50:20

Okay, now I'm kind of I'm kind of realising this about myself that I like creating new things. And I created the festival a couple years ago, and we'll be doing that for two years. So that's going to, I don't know whether that I think that's going to evolve. And I think there probably will be more evolving happening for I'm starting to paint. And I am writing a book at the moment. So those are the two things. Okay. Whether they are a direct impact on my business, and what what I offer? I don't know, but there's certainly different strands that are coming for this job fair and coming from the life of ever creative, I suppose. So it starts with a photography. But I definitely like new challenges to do say I like new challenges I don't like kind of just go along. So I don't know, actually, I'm taking a good look at my life. And I think what's really important is to take a good look at it and say, Well, how am I living? Am I? How healthy am I? How happy am I? How much time do I have? And how much do I need? So it's probably at the moment that she has a period of adjustment to having moved here and there was a little bit of a plan in the pipeline to to build a little studio in the garden. So that's probably the next thing to concentrate. That's probably enough, isn't it? It's probably enough to concentrate on.

Angela Nicholson: 51:46

Yeah, it's quite a few things. I think anyone who types your name into Google, or perhaps another search engine, will soon find out that you are quite a busy person. You do quite a lot of stuff.

Margaret Soraya: 51:57

Yeah. Yeah, I do. And I don't always realise that sometimes think, Oh, I'm not doing enough. Which is ridiculous.

Angela Nicholson: 52:07

I must do more. Yes. But what sort of book is it? Is it is it a novel is about photography, autobiography? What can we expect?

Margaret Soraya: 52:16

Now it's it's it's a memoir, which is not an autobiography, because I think an autobiography is when you get to near the end of your life. And it's a whole I think, I don't know what actually we should should Google that before I say that. A memoir is yes. It's about my life. But it's about about my life and the sea, and creativity and wellness. So all of those things put together. I've only just started writing it. It's very difficult because I'm not a writer. Learning to write, but I'm loving the challenge.

Angela Nicholson: 52:52

Oh, great. I hope there's an audio version as well.

Margaret Soraya: 52:54

Oh, maybe to write it first.

Angela Nicholson: 52:57

Something else for you to do?

Margaret Soraya: 52:59

I suppose. Yes. That's right. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 53:03

Okay, so your final number then pleased.

Margaret Soraya: 53:07

Number eight.

Angela Nicholson: 53:09

Do you still swim all year round? Yes, I do even more. So now that I'm here. So one of the things that I decided to do when I got here was to swim every day if I can. And I have been doing actually, most days I managed to get in the water. And it's been really nice, because it's summer. So it's just the sea here is just glorious. It's like a turquoise bath at the moment was a little bit colder than a bath, but it's just beautiful. And it just, it just feels amazing. And because I'll be doing this in water photography, this kind of dual purpose. Sometimes they were with cameras, sometimes just in swimming, because it makes me feel better. But I will carry it on and it will go through the winter. Definitely. Because it's just so so good for you. And it's one of the props for my my well being would definitely feel feel better after doing it. So if anybody does it, they know what I'm talking about. And if they don't give it a whirl, because it does, it does help. It does help enormously with a range of things from mental wellness to physical well being. So that's, that's why I do it. It's it's sometimes painful. Don't want to get in a student office once getting online looking at it going on. But when I get out, I feel amazing. So I'm still gonna I'm gonna carry on doing that. Absolutely. Yeah. I do know what you're talking about, because I absolutely love being in the sea, but I'm the sort of person who wears a winter wetsuit in the summer because I am such a wuss, okay, when it comes to the cold, I just don't like being cold. Tell me you wear a wetsuit.

Margaret Soraya: 54:41

Oh, yeah, no, I won't wear a wetsuit. I don't wear a wetsuit at all.

Angela Nicholson: 54:45

In Scotland?

Margaret Soraya: 54:45

Well, yeah, no, I don't wear what's at all

Angela Nicholson: 54:47

Good grief

Margaret Soraya: 54:48

unless I photographing and from photographing. I'm quite static for a long time. So I can be in for a long time kind of not moving and that's not good. But if I I just in for myself it snow. I'm just assumed cushion because you get the most dramatic effect when you drink just in the swing because there's something about it being that's a cold you need the cold and it says the skin the cold on the skin that really gives you that kind of cold water boost. Almost. So yeah, it can be quite painful. It's not always swimming as a lot sometimes just standing or laying. So we'll take you saying wild swimming. We'll take the swimming out of that and just kind of being.

Angela Nicholson: 55:32

Or, bob, wild bobbing

Margaret Soraya: 55:34

I like it.

Angela Nicholson: 55:37

Well, Margaret has been absolutely wonderful hearing from you. Thank you so much for joining me today on the

Margaret Soraya: 55:41

That's aright, it was lovely talking to you and podcast. see you later. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.

Angela Nicholson: 55:43

Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You'll find links to Margaret social media channels, website and podcast in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography