Marina Spironetti: Winning Strategies for Photography Competitions

Marina Spironetti: 0:03

We always have room for improvement. And something that maybe once is a failure can be a huge success just in a few months or in a few years time, and the point is to keep doing it.

Angela Nicholson: 0:18

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. Our guest today is Marina Spironetti, a travel and food photographer. Marina was the winner of the very first Claire Aho Award for women photographers in the Pink Lady food Photographer of the Year Awards. And in 2022, she won the Errázuriz Wine Photographer of the Year Award in the same awards. She's also had lots of success in the Travel Photographer of the Year Awards, including winning the iTravelled category in 2022. Hi, Marina. Thanks for joining me on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. How are you?

Marina Spironetti: 1:02

I'm good. Hi, Angela. It's wonderful to be here.

Angela Nicholson: 1:05

Oh, thank you. Let's kick off with how you got started as a professional photographer, because I know you studied languages and literature originally. And then you trained as a journalist before studying photojournalism. So what was it that led you into photojournalism and photography?

Marina Spironetti: 1:20

It was actually just chance, pure chance, I have to say, other photographers, they will tell you how their first camera, they received their first camera as kids, and they started to play with photographs at a very young age. That's not my case at all. As you said, I studied languages. And then I started to train as a journalist. And then I moved to London. And I had to quit journalism for a while because I just didn't feel confident about writing in English. And I happened to have a darkroom just downstairs from where I need. And my at-the-time partner encouraged me to take a course. Just to make friends really wasn't for any professional reasons. But it was just you know, to do something and meet new people, which is what I did. And the moment I saw the first image developing, I just felt it was something magic. And I thought, 'Okay, this is what I want to do with my life'. And it didn't happen through pictures, but it happened through the darkroom. So it's a bit of an unusual way to, you know, get involved in photography.

Angela Nicholson: 2:31

Yeah.

Marina Spironetti: 2:32

And the photojournalism was just a next step. Because being a journalist, I thought it made sense to move into photojournalism. And that's how I enrolled in a course at the London College of Communication. And, and then I got my first job as a UK correspondent for an Italian picture agency, I was super lucky, because I had no experience whatsoever. And it was a fabulous experience.

Angela Nicholson: 2:58

And when you're talking about what you do now, do you describe yourself as a writer first or a photographer? Or are you completely one or the other?

Marina Spironetti: 3:06

That's a good question. I describe myself as if a photographer though. I mean, I'm a writer as well, and I like writing, although not as much as I did in the past. It's a little bit more difficult. While photography is is easy. So I see myself as a photographer,

Angela Nicholson: 3:26

Well, they say a picture paints 1000 words, but in the case of photography, a photograph captures 1000 words.

Marina Spironetti: 3:33

Absolutely, absolutely. It's more immediate, which is what is probably closer to my way of being. So yeah, if I had to choose, I describe myself first as a photographer. And then as a writer. Absolutely. No doubt.

Angela Nicholson: 3:47

Okay. So obviously, hindsight is a wonderful thing. But with the benefit of that, if you were going back, would you start with photography training from the outset?

Marina Spironetti: 3:55

I wouldn't change a thing. Honestly. It was the right it was the right decision. It was the right the right path. So yeah, I would go back to photography 100%. No doubt. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 4:06

But do you think your journalism training has helped with your photography?

Marina Spironetti: 4:09

To an extent, but at the same time, I had trained as a journalist for a couple of years, so it wasn't really such a long time. So I think the real experience as a journalist came with photojournalism and not with what I had done before, it was something quite small, and it was more for local newspapers. So it wasn't such a huge experience at the time. So it was really with photography, that everything made that made sense.

Angela Nicholson: 4:36

Okay. What was it that made you decide to move away from the picture agency to become a freelance photographer?

Marina Spironetti: 4:42

Well, I actually was a freelance photographer also when I worked for them for the picture agency. So I've always been a freelance photographer, in fact. But the thing I didn't like was the speed. The fact that you go to a photocall you take your photos, you barely have the time to go through them, you pick what you think are the best images, and you send them straight away. And having said that, at the time, the photo agency I was working for was a very small one. So sometimes people were not even in the office, they were out shooting stories themselves. So I sent pictures, and maybe the pictures got online hours later, while all my colleagues from Reuters, Getty, France Press, whatever, you know, that I could send them sending the photos straight away. And I thought,'Oh, my God', I'm terribly late compared to them. So yeah, it was that it was the fact that I felt that I didn't really digest what I was taking photos of. And that's why I moved into reportage, photography, travel photography. I like to have the time and personal projects, of course, I like to have the time to process what I take photos of, I like to have the time to develop a story. And so that was really the the main the main thing that made me switch. And also the fact that I moved to Paris. So I couldn't be the London correspondent anymore. So I had to, you know, there was also a practical thing.

Angela Nicholson: 6:15

Yes, that makes sense. 'Our London correspondent in Paris'.

Marina Spironetti: 6:21

It's very bizarre, isn't it?

Angela Nicholson: 6:22

Yes, it is a bit. Yes. What is it about travel photography that you love?

Marina Spironetti: 6:27

That I love, and they hate at the same time. It's the fact of course, I travel. Travel has been a huge passion of mine since I was a teenager. First time I went abroad, I thought, 'Oh my God, there's so much to see outside of my house outside of my my town'. And I said to myself, I wanted to travel as much as possible, I wanted to pack in as much as possible in my life. So travel photography is perfect in that respect, but at the same time, so it's something I love, but at the same time, it's something I hate, so to say as well. Because sometimes with travel photography, you stop at the surface, and you don't have time to go below it really to investigate a little bit more sometimes an assignment is five days, in the other is on the other side of the world. And you don't really have time to connect with that place. So it's something as I said, that I love and I hate. So I always, the the funny thing is that when I have an assignment in a country, I end up liking a lot, I travel again, to develop more stories, like personal projects, or maybe I pitch it to a magazine, but I make sure that I have more time to work on that. So I go back.

Angela Nicholson: 7:52

Are your assignments, your primary reason for travel?

Marina Spironetti: 7:54

Yes and no, but let's say these days, a good 70% of my travels is on assignment. Yeah. And then the remaining 30% is me wanting to go to a country to a city and explore a bit more with or without the camera. It depends.

Angela Nicholson: 8:11

And is food photography, a part of your travel photography, and your assignments perhaps, or is it personal work? Or do you see it completely separately?

Marina Spironetti: 8:19

Oh, no, no, no, no food photographer, food photography these days is a big chunk of my work. And it's part of my travel photography. It's, very often I explore a country, if I'm on a food assignment through the food, and the culture that we can find in in food and how this has an impact on on people on society. It's it's actually a good way. I think food is a wonderful way to explore a country. It can tell you a lot about that place. It's it's actually something. For example, when you have a travel assignment, you're always worried about whether the weather has to be nice. You don't want it to be too cloudy to grey or whatever. While with food, it doesn't really matter. You don't you're not worried about the weather, because you know, it's going to be great. Anyway, the assignment is going to work because you take photos of people and cooking chefs, dishes, ingredients, so you don't worry about the weather. So it's a great thing, especially when you travel to cold countries.

Angela Nicholson: 9:30

Yes, I guess most of us when we travel, say on holiday, the food is a big part of that experience. I suppose you're immersing yourself in that by photographing its production.

Marina Spironetti: 9:39

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. And it's, it's really sometimes, I travell to a place because I maybe I just want to investigate something in particular about an ingredient or the harvest season for something, or maybe a small group of people feel doing things in the same way they used to do two or three hundred years ago? So it's maybe sometimes it's really the reason that makes me travel, it's, it's food.

Angela Nicholson: 10:09

So, um, would you say your food photography is a documentary style? Predominantly?

Marina Spironetti: 10:14

I would say so. Yeah. Yeah. I think my approach to photographs, is it still a documentary one. So yeah, yeah, I would say that's the approach.

Angela Nicholson: 10:26

And how did you find your first clients?

Marina Spironetti: 10:28

Well, I wanted to work as I said, the first client was this photo agency. But then when I moved to work as a freelancer, I just approached magazines. And it was this was before the social media madness. So I just used to send them an email, or maybe give them a call, and say, 'Hello, I'm a photographer, I want to come to show you my portfolio, I would be interested in working for you'. And I mean, first of all, of course, you do a research, you look at the magazines, you look at their style, you look at what they do, and see if they're good for you or not. And after that, you decide to to approach them. And sometimes you send them an email. And they don't get back to you. Because of course, they receive plenty of them. And you write again, or maybe you give them a call, or maybe you even show up, so you do a bit of stalking in a way but good stalking. And that I know probably these days, it's not a good advice to give to people, because things are quite different. Maybe a lot of people will get in touch with them through social media. But I'm old enough to be lucky, because I skipped the whole process, the whole social media thing. So it's, it was a bit different. But anyway, the the advice is always to keep talking to people, even when they say no at the first time, or even when they don't get back to you because maybe they simply don't have time. It has nothing to do with your photography with your work, but just with their time. So.

Angela Nicholson: 11:55

I think that's a very good point, because a lot of people assume it's some sort of rejection of their photography. But it could be that the editor is about to publish a story that's exactly what you've just pitched. Or they're thinking about doing something in the future, and they may come back to you in a few months.

Marina Spironetti: 12:12

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. But you know, I think, photographers, and I speak for myself, but I also speak for photographers in general, because it's something that I see in other people as well. We tend to be very insecure and very fragile when it comes to our work. So if we don't get a reply, we immediately think, oh, it's because there's something wrong with my work. And maybe that's just not the case, maybe the editor is very busy, maybe they're not interested in that story in that particular moment. So it's not really about what we do, they might still love it. But maybe it's not the right time, or, you know, not the right story for that particular moment.

Angela Nicholson: 12:57

Yeah. But like you say, it's well worth keeping up to date with what the magazine is publishing, keeping an eye on their Instagram profile so you know, what they're posting.

Marina Spironetti: 13:05

Reading the magazine on a regular basis, because of course, if I pitch a story about, say, Paris, and maybe they just run Paris, two issues before, they're not gonna do it again, before a year or two years, you know. So it's also about that it's also about pitching the right stories at the right time.

Angela Nicholson: 13:24

Yeah. And you can see development trends as well. You can see what direction they're going in and pitch something that might connect.

Marina Spironetti: 13:30

Yeah, exactly.

Angela Nicholson: 13:31

Yeah. Now, you've had quite a bit of success entering photography competitions, but what was it that first drove you to start entering them?

Marina Spironetti: 13:38

Actually, a was the very, very first time I entered a photography competition was many years ago, because I was still living in London. So it must have been 2006 or 2007. And it was a Travel Photographer of the Year. And that particular year, something happened, I can't remember whether they extended the deadline, or whether they were not giving out any prize for a particular category, because they said that the quality wasn't good enough that here the quality of the entries. Now, obviously, I felt super depressed about that, because I thought, 'Oh, my God, why why bothering', you know, please? So yeah, I didn't enter for maybe three, four years. And then I started again, and I happen to win a category the next time I entered. So again, you know, whenever something goes wrong, it can always go better. So we shouldn't really get too depressed about that. We always have room for improvement. And something that maybe once is a failure can be a huge success, just in a few months, or in a few years time. And the point is to keep doing it.

Angela Nicholson: 14:51

Because you learn so much in the process, don't you?

Marina Spironetti: 14:53

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You learn so much in the process. You learn so much. Looking at it. The work of other people, which I think is something super important. Also, I keep looking whenever I have the opportunity to see the work of another photographer, even if they do something that has nothing to do with what I do. I go to the exhibition, I go to the talk, I read their books, because there's always a lot to learn from other people's work. And it's inspiring, and I think you should never miss the chance of, of learning from from others, photographers, visual artists, it doesn't it doesn't really matter. But really, there's always room for for improvement. And other people that work is a great way

Angela Nicholson: 15:45

Has winning awards had a significant impact on your career?

Marina Spironetti: 15:48

Absolutely. Yeah. Especially. Especially some, I remember, when was that? It was under COVID. It was, I think, now, about three years ago, when I won the first award that the first Claire Aho Award for women photographers, with a photo of a woman butcher from Tuscany. All of a sudden, I mean, that the photo had a huge impact on on media, Italian international media, and I had photo editors ringing me up saying, 'Hey, we have an assignment for you, would you like to do it?' And I was like,'Wow, this is just completely new'. It's usually the other way around. It's usually me, pestering people, and all of a sudden, it was completely new. And I'm very grateful to, to that competition. So Pink Lady, Food Photographer of the Year, Travel Photographer of the Year, they had a huge impact on my on my career. Absolutely. So I, I can highly recommend them. And I can recommend competitions in general, although you have to do some research first, depending on the photography you do, obviously, and also what you want to achieve, because it's not particularly useful say that I enter a an art photography competition, but I'm not that kind of photographer, you know? So it's, it's very important to do your research well. And also, to check competitions, also, because sometimes there are competitions that are not very serious. And maybe they ask money for the pictures, and maybe then they get the rights to the pictures, so it's not very good for photographers. So I always suggest to do the research, read the small print and see what's good, and what's not that good. Yeah. Do you shoot specifically for a competition? Or do you select images from your catalogue? Well, I now know what competitions to enter. And like, for example, if it's a food, food photography competition, after an assignment, maybe I have three, four really good shots. And I think, 'Oh, this is perfect for that particular category'. So I have a little folder, and I put those images there. And then when it's time to enter the competition, I go through them again, and I do another selection. And I choose what I think they are the best for me. And I think having a little folder is a good is a good way, you know, as you go along throughout the year, you put them in the folder, and then in the end, you already have a first selection.

Angela Nicholson: 18:32

I think that's a great idea. Because it means firstly, you're not scrambling around on deadline day.

Marina Spironetti: 18:37

Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 18:38

Putting yourself under pressure, trying to find your images.

Marina Spironetti: 18:42

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Angela Nicholson: 18:43

And you've got all your best work together so you can decide how many you're going to enter and put them together properly.

Marina Spironetti: 18:48

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. Having said that, though, two years ago, I actually entered the Pink Lady Food Photographer of the Year, I had, you know, made all my selection, and I made all my entries. Then I entered another image on the very last day because I took it on the very last day of the competition I was in I was in Tuscany. And I by chance, we were just drove by this winery, this very famous winery, we meant to go we have meant to go for a long time. As we went, I only had my mobile phone with me. So I took just a couple of pictures that I thought were nice. And I said well, why not? Let's let's enter that in the wine photography section. And happen to win. So it was that was just very, very lucky. But I thought 'okay, this is going to work'. And okay, I took it on the very last day of the competition and I thought'okay, why not?' Otherwise you have to wait another year and I might as well and it was a good decision in the end.

Angela Nicholson: 19:54

Very. It sounds like you would say plan to enter from at least, you know, a few months out, ideally at the beginning, you know when it first opened for entry, but also don't overthink it. And if something comes along, put that image in.

Marina Spironetti: 20:06

It's a combination of the two things. So planning ahead and the last minute image that might come through.

Angela Nicholson: 20:14

And when you win, do you do anything to kind of maximise the impact? Or did you find that actually, you're just juggling all the people contacting you and lots of work coming in?

Marina Spironetti: 20:22

That's a good question. I don't know, if I really maximise it. Probably not. I should do a little bit more, I should sell myself a little bit better. And I'm not very good. That's to be honest. But so far, I've been I've been very lucky because I had people getting in touch with me, rather than the opposite. But yeah, probably I should do a little bit more to maximise the achievement.

Angela Nicholson: 20:53

It's always tricky. Isn't it striking that balance between doing the job, which is brings the money in but also any time marketing that job?

Marina Spironetti: 21:02

Exactly, exactly. I, That's why a lot of people have an agent at the end of the day.

Angela Nicholson: 21:07

Yeah. And you don't I take it?

Marina Spironetti: 21:09

I don't, I don't probably because I'm a control freak. So I like to be in control of what I do. I like to be in control of my customers. I like to talk to them directly, and not through a third person. But sometimes I say to myself that, yeah, probably it would be a good idea to have one. Yeah. Because it helps you where you where you are weak and I know that I'm not I'm not very good at marketing myself. Let's face it. I think a lot of photographers are not, but so far, it's been okay, I could I could earn a living through photography. So it's been okay, I think at the end of the day,

Angela Nicholson: 21:45

Great. Tell me a little bit about your book and the process of getting that published,

Marina Spironetti: 21:49

So it's called Senza Mare, which means sealess, and it's about the traditions of inland Sardinia. And there's a reason for that, because my mother is Sardinian. So obviously, I've been going to the island since I was a kid. And she's from the coast though. And I've been fascinated by the inland because it's to me, it always felt really super authentic. That the coast is more touristy, you know, it's a bit different. The inland is absolutely fascinating. So it was actually a work of about four years of research on Carnival costumes. So carnival traditions, and also traditional costumes that used to be worn on a daily basis. It was published in November 2020. So you can understand it wasn't the best time to have a book out. So very good for Christmas presents, but at the same time, it was just terrible for promotion, because I actually did only one book presentation. And it was an online one, of course, yeah, in a way, I have to say I have to be completely honest with you, in a way, the little voice inside myself was quite happy about that, because not being very good at promoting myself, you can understand I'm not very good that, you know, attending book presentations and talking about me and talking about the book. So in a way, I was quite relieved by the fact that we were in the middle of a pandemic. And I couldn't do that, you know. But having said that, actually, the first edition sold out, I think there are about, I don't know, 30, 40 copies around. So it sold about 1000 copies, which I think was a great result, considering that it wasn't promoted at all.

Angela Nicholson: 23:47

Great.

Marina Spironetti: 23:47

And the great thing was that I did it through this Italian publisher, that is called the Crowd Books. And as the name says, it's, it helps you publishing your book through crowdfunding. And so I had to do quite a lot of work for that. So I had to really work on a campaign. Because you basically, pre sell the book, people can buy it at a discounted rate. So they buy it say in August, and the book is gonna come out in November. And that money gives the publisher the the money to, you know, to work on the book. So it was I think it was a great, I think it was a great way because I had approached other publishers. They loved the idea. They loved the photos, they loved the project, but then I was always asked to put quite a lot of money upfront because they said, 'Yeah, we like it, but we cannot take the risk'. And I couldn't take the risk either. Because it was, it was a lot of money that maybe I didn't even have at the time, or I didn't want to invest in that. So A crowdfunding framework I think is, it's a great way. And I'm working on a second book, which is always about Sardinia. And I'm still in the process to decide whether to go for the same crowdfunding or chose something else, I'll, I'll be able to tell you hopefully in a month time because I'm about to make a decision.

Angela Nicholson: 25:24

Okay, well, best of luck with all that, it sounds great. I think that's a really good time to go to Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 Questions from SheClickers. And I'm going to ask you to answer six of them by picking numbers from one to 10, please.

Marina Spironetti: 25:38

All right. I'll start with number three, because it's my lucky number.

Angela Nicholson: 25:42

Okay, lucky number. you've travelled and lived in many countries. Is there another place you'd like to explore? And if so, why are some Marie-Ange

Marina Spironetti: 25:51

Oh my god, there's many, many places that I'd love to explore. I'm actually right now in the process of deciding where I'd like to move next, because I've been back to Milan, which is my hometown, for 10 years. And when the number 10, the 10th year is always a bit tricky for me. It was the same in London, I lived in London for 10 years and then I thought, 'What am I going to do now? Am I going to stay here forever? Or shall I make a move?' And then I moved to Paris and the 10th year has just started here in Milan and I'm exploring possibilities. On one hand, I'm very fascinated by Nordic countries, so Scandinavian countries, maybe Copenhagen, for example, could be could be a good option, or had the same time. Spain, Madrid, Barcelona, Portugal, is another very good option. So yeah, I have a I have plenty of options at the moment. And I just have to pick up one.

Angela Nicholson: 26:56

Yeah. Sounds like you need to get a map of the world out and throw a dart and just decide where the next place is.

Marina Spironetti: 27:01

I have a map of the world where I put my pins actually.

Angela Nicholson: 27:07

Okay, so could I have your next number, please?

Marina Spironetti: 27:09

So let's go for number seven.

Angela Nicholson: 27:11

Okay, so how much kit do you take with you on a travel assignment? Do you have any favourite lenses or accessories? For example? That's from Rebecca.

Marina Spironetti: 27:19

Okay, that's a good question. I take two camera bodies, because especially find travel in a remote area, and maybe there's a problem with one, I always have a backup. And then I have, I like to work with zoom lenses when I travel, because they give me more flexibility. I have a wide-angle lens. I have a 24-70mm, which is probably the one I use the most, especially for food pictures, I have a 50mm not a zoom, but just the 50mm that is my special portrait lens. And then I have a 70-200mm. These are usually, and then yeah, I have a macro for some food photography as well. But yeah, these are, this is my kit when I travel. So it's, you can imagine it's a heavy kit.

Angela Nicholson: 28:15

You take quite a lot. So I imagine your favourite accessory is a good bag.

Marina Spironetti: 28:18

Yeah, I know. I know. And my back is not as good as ite used to be, like 15 years ago. So I actually have now this little, it's a backpack, but you can also use it as a trolley. So it's, it's helping me a little bit.

Angela Nicholson: 28:34

Good idea. I know people will want to know which camera system do you use?

Marina Spironetti: 28:38

Nikon. It's all Nikon, and I just stick to it. Because my first film camera was a Nikon and my lenses were Nikon of course, and then I just carried on. Sometimes I thought,'Oh, maybe I should make I should switch to something else?' But you know, there's, I like it, I like like my camera, I know it fairly well. So there's no point in in changing it and having to relearn everything about a new system. So I'll probably stick to Nikon in the future.

Angela Nicholson: 29:09

And are you still using a DSLR or havbe you switeched to mirrorless?

Marina Spironetti: 29:12

SLR, SLR. And that's a good question because I'm thinking about it. My partner actually says that I'm thinking about it too much. He's telling me off, we're thinking about it so much. Because I've been thinking about it probably for the past three years or so. But again, you know, mirrorless have many advantages, especially as we were saying, my back would be very happy to, for me to use a mirrorless. But at the same time, you know, I really liked the equipment I have so probably I'll I'll carry on with that.

Angela Nicholson: 29:44

Okay, thank you for that. So can we have another number please?

Marina Spironetti: 29:48

Let's go for number one.

Angela Nicholson: 29:52

Okay, which came first, had you already taken the photograph of the female butcher? Or were you searching for a subject to enter in the Pink Lady Food Photography Awards? That question is from Stephanie.

Marina Spironetti: 30:01

No, I already took those photos, because that was part of a series for an editorial story. In fact, it was for it was a magazine assignment. That I did, actually it was an idea of a very good friend of mine. She's a journalist, and she, she had some contacts with this female butchers. And she said, 'Oh, would you like to work on the story together?' And, and we did. So it wasn't really related to the competition. It wasn't shot for the competition. It just happened to I just happened to have it. And that was when I saw the competition when I saw the new category that was absolutely perfect. So I thought, okay, these photos really fit the bill. And let's enter those. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 30:45

That pitcture, which won the Claire Aho Award, the very first award, is such a powerful portrait.

Marina Spironetti: 30:50

Thank you. Thank you. It's, it's still one of my favourite pictures. We took four portraits of these female butchers. And the great thing was that we actually, before taking the photographs, we spent a couple of days together, the six of us, so me Fabiana, the journalist, Fabiana Magrì, and and the butchers and talking, talking about the photoshoot, of course, talking about the story, but also talking about life in general, talking about, they were talking about themselves, their life experience their work. And by the time we took the photos, it made such a huge difference, because we knew each other. I wouldn't say, you know, we haven't known each other for a lifetime, but we knew each other. So it was everything was much easier. And the most important thing was that we trust each other. And they think trust is so important when you want to tell a story. And I'm not, I'm not a big fan of shooting straight ahead of taking the camera out straight ahead. When you work for a story. I like to spend time talking to people first and maybe even days, if I have the chance. Of course, then I know, practically, it's not always possible. But if you have the chance, it's really important to get to know these people. And, and it's important for them to trust you and trust what you do. So the camera is something that comes, the photos come, at a later stage. But first, it's really important to get to know each other a bit better. To me, the idea is always to try to go below the surface as much as possible. And probably that's why that project was so successful, because we really had the time before before the photo shoot before the interviews, we had time to get to know each other. And the great thing if I might add is that after that photoshoots, Martina (Martina Bartolozzi the butcher in the image) and myself became really good friends. And we were really connected through photography and through that particular photo, it just created a very strong bond between the two of us so I think you know, that's...

Angela Nicholson: 33:04

That's really nice.

Marina Spironetti: 33:05

Yeah, yeah, that's something wonderful that comes out of photography and makes me really happy of, of my job. I think it's the best job in the world.

Angela Nicholson: 33:14

One thing I noticed about that picture is that the subjects lipstick on her top are really good colour match for some of the meat in the scene. And I wondered whether that was deliberate or not.

Marina Spironetti: 33:23

It wasn't planned by me., but was planned, was planned by Martina. She was very, she was planning her outfit quite, quite carefully. I mean, she's, she's younger than me. So she belongs to that social media generation. So she's very much aware of things that for me, you know, for me would have been just a chance, but she planned everything. She even planned the colour of the lipstick, the colour of the jumper she was wearing. And it was great. So it's really a photo that, it's my picture, but at the same time, it's our picture. It's something that we created, we created together.

Angela Nicholson: 34:10

Oh, she did a great job.

Marina Spironetti: 34:11

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Angela Nicholson: 34:13

Okay, so can I have your fourth number, please?

Marina Spironetti: 34:15

Number five.

Angela Nicholson: 34:16

Number five. When you're working on a commercial project, how much of it is dictated by the client? And how much free rein do you have? That question is from Ann.

Marina Spironetti: 34:26

It really depends on the client. Sometimes they're quite strict. They have they have their ideas. And maybe when you when you hear their ideas, sometimes they you know they're going to work, but sometimes you you know that they can they need to be changed a little bit. So you try to mediate and try to, to persuade the client that maybe they should also look at things from a different point of view, but it really depends on the client. Like for example, at the beginning of the pandemic, I was super lucky because I had this assignment with, with a winery with a very big winery in Italy. And they were absolutely fantastic because it was a one year project. So I had to document their work, the work of the winery, the work in the fields, the harvest the production of wine, every single aspect throughout the year. And they said to me, 'you are 100% free to do whatever you want, you have access to all', you know, 'the factory to all the premises'. So they introduced me to people so that people knew me. And they said, 'we just want to see your style, we want to see your, your eye behind the picture. So we want a body of work that makes sense, we want to see that you are the person shooting it, but you are completely free'. You know, and that was that's the ideal customer. That's the ideal client, you know, it's just perfect when it happens. But sometimes, you know, other people are not that flexible. And you have to at the end of the day, you have to adapt to depending on depending on your clients.

Angela Nicholson: 36:18

Part of the job, I guess.

Marina Spironetti: 36:19

Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 36:20

Okay, so can have your penultimate number please?

Marina Spironetti: 36:24

Nine.

Angela Nicholson: 36:26

What makes a great travel image rather than a picture just being a holiday snap?

Marina Spironetti: 36:31

Good question. Well, aside from the technical things, of course, it has to be exposed properly, you know, all the technicalities, it has to be perfect from that point of view. And I think we all agree on that. The difference is that the holiday snap is a picture probably you just by definition, you take it and you don't think much about it. While a good travel picture is something you think about. It's something you plan, it's something you compose, it's something you go back to if maybe the light or the weather is not right. And it's something you put your heart into to to an extent.

Angela Nicholson: 37:15

Yep, that all makes sense to me. Okay, so your final number then please?

Marina Spironetti: 37:21

Number 10.

Angela Nicholson: 37:22

Number 10. You've mentioned that you work on assignments a lot. When you're travelling, just taking travel photos, do you have publications in mind?

Marina Spironetti: 37:32

If I don't have an assignment?

Angela Nicholson: 37:34

Yeah.

Marina Spironetti: 37:35

Sometimes I do. But to be honest, most of the times when I'm, when I'm on holiday, or when I'm on a break, I don't take holidays as such, when I, I rather take breaks, I'd rather try to disappear if I have the time for a month or a month and a half. But I don't really plan assignments, when I'm on holiday, when I'm I just take photos for myself that might, they might end up in something, they might rather end up in a personal project. Or to be very honest with you, sometimes I don't have another camera with me, because I also need some time off from pictures. I, you know, I feel like I have to switch off completely. And yeah, sometimes I take photos, I used to say I take photos with my eyes, and and they're good enough. Or sometimes, you know, having the advantage to write, I write rather than take pictures of something, you know, maybe I keep a travel journal or I use words instead. And it's a good way, you know, to just switch off.

Angela Nicholson: 38:39

So when you travel for work, it's on assignment. And that's all planned. You don't travel to take photographs that you then pitch to someone?

Marina Spironetti: 38:46

No, no, not. Usually I travel on assignment, and it's and everything, or 90% of it is planned. As I said, if I travel by myself, it's just for myself, most of the time, it's just to have a break from everything. If it turns out to become a magazine feature, it's because maybe it's a personal project that I've developed over time, but now most of the time is as I said, No, it's It's just my my own time my own pictures. It's just, or no pictures at all.

Angela Nicholson: 39:22

Okay. Well thank you so much for answering all those questions and joining me stay on this SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast.

Marina Spironetti: 39:29

You're very welcome. Thank you.

Angela Nicholson: 39:32

Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You'll find links to Marina's, website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography