Vanessa Joy: Learn with other Photographers

Vanessa Joy: 0:03

So most photographers think, Oh, I'm the photographer, I have to edit it or I have to cull, or I have to design the album. And the truth is no, no, you don't. And there's people who are better at it than you are, whether that's AI that's going to edit you call your photos better or faster than you or other people that you can hire.

Angela Nicholson: 0:21

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson. I'm the founder of SheClicks which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talked to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. This episode features Vanessa Joy, a US-based multi-award winning photographer who likes to ensure clients have fun, and blends classic imagery with photojournalism. She's also a popular speaker at events, a widely respected business coach, and a Canon USA Explorer of Light. Hi, Vanessa, thank you for joining me on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast today. How are you?

Vanessa Joy: 0:57

I am I'm doing well, a little bit sick. So you will hear that. But thank you for having me.

Angela Nicholson: 1:03

I'm really sorry that you're not feeling so goo. Extra thanks for joining me today. Starting at the beginning of your photographic career, I know that you started out as a teacher teaching Spanish, h ow did you transition from a teacher to photography?

Vanessa Joy: 1:17

You know, the only reason I became a Spanish teacher was because I thought I had to have a real job. Like photography wasn't a real job and not to date myself, but when I first started photography, and when I was going to college, there was no Instagram, Facebook had like just started. Most small businesses did not have websites. And we're still advertising in the yellow pages. So my inspirations for wanting to do photography, or my high school photography teacher who did weddings on the weekends, and my mom who was really a stay at home mom. So when I realised I wanted to do photography, it's like, okay, that's nice. Now, how are you going to pay your bills? How are you going to get health insurance and I decided to do that by going and becoming a Spanish teacher because I like languages, I learned them. I'm not a native Spanish speaker. But that's what I did. And I started teaching the same year I started my own photography business, which was also five years after working for my high school photography teacher doing weddings. And it just got so busy, I had to start teaching because I kept asking for Friday's off to go photograph weddings, and they didn't like it that much.

Angela Nicholson: 2:29

So Spanish teaching really was always a kind of like fallback position, and you will pretty determined to be a photographer one way or another?

Vanessa Joy: 2:38

Right, that was just, you know, my health insurance job, my real job so that I could pay rent and buy a house and do all the things. Who knew Who knew that you could be a real photographer? And that's a real job, although I still have to pay for my health insurance, which is not particularly pleasant.

Angela Nicholson: 2:56

Yes, I can imagine. So you know, you're working for your school teacher as a wedding photographer, on on Fridays doing weddings, Saturdays doing weddings, I guess, at what point did it build up to feeling like this is a proper career. And you said you got really busy, but obviously there's a there's a point we have to chop off that income as well. How did you make that decision?

Vanessa Joy: 3:15

I am very strategic, very logical. So as I was building one business, I waited until I had three months of security, like just in case. And then I waited until my income from photography was the same as my income from teaching. At that point, got the three months and then got to the point where I was only living off the photography income. So I knew I could drop the other one. And right as I was quitting, I threw like all of that money into retirement because you know, when you're a government employee here, you can I think it's I forget what it is like 4-3-B or something along those lines, where you can just put a lot of money into more of a pension type fund. So I was just storing all of the money from teaching into that. And then just just left so I really waited until the income was the same and I knew I can live off it and I had a buffer.

Angela Nicholson: 4:17

I was that it then did you never look back? You never think oh, maybe I've made a mistake. And I could go back to teaching at any point or is photography always been the thing for you since you've got going? Oh really?

Vanessa Joy: 4:26

I mean, that's what my nightmares are made of. I Oh my oh my goodness, but I always, I always literally have nightmares about going back to teaching and have it in the back of my mind. Like maybe it's a motivating hoping to teach. thing. You know, you have to do all this otherwise, you're gonna have to start teaching again. And I kept my school clothes like my work clothes for probably a decade, and I hated those clothes. But I kept them just in case I needed to get a real job and I would have to wear professional clothes again, like slacks. And just know, but um, you know, it's, I don't think I'll ever go back to it at this point, my own business is 15 years old this year. So I think I'll be good. And even if I had to go back and my own business failed, I'm not going back to any sort of corporate or teaching. I'm going to, I'm gonna work for another photographer, maybe anything, anything would go back there.

Angela Nicholson: 5:24

Fair enough. And when you were working for your high school teacher, it was that a significant step for you? Did that really help your progression as a photographer?

Vanessa Joy: 5:33

Oh, absolutely. I mean, John, John Hain was his name. He was my mentor for so many years. He taught me photography in high school, but then, you know, taught me afterwards. And it was so much more than just photographing for him every once in a while, I second shot weddings, I assisted but then I was also in the studio. So I would be in the back, editing photos or doing something in the back while he was there, we are meeting with clients. So I got to hear what client consults sounded like and literally be in the back room eavesdropping on them. And then eventually, sitting in on them and looking at his marketing tactics. Eventually, I would help him build a website and do bridal shows. And so, so much of what I learned, I have to attribute to Him, it's the best thing I could have ever done. And so many photographers don't do that these days, they just buy a camera and try to start picking up gigs. And you know, that's fine. That's another path. But I think it's such a disservice to them, because they don't get to learn from somebody else who's already made all the mistakes. They don't get to experiment and make mistakes on someone else's reputation, they have to do it on theirs. So if one piece of advice I always give people, if you can work for as many different other photographers as you can, for the first year before you ever book your own client, it's just going to teach you so much that you, you don't want to learn on your own reputation or your own dime.

Angela Nicholson: 7:02

Yeah, because even if you're a great photographer, there's so much about the business to learn. Isn't that as this you'll do absolutely everything for your business. You're not just taking photographs all day.

Vanessa Joy: 7:13

Right. Yeah, very much. So everything from pricing structure to putting through album orders. I mean, then we were building the albums ourselves, everything.

Angela Nicholson: 7:22

It must be really exciting, though. You know, he helped teach you about photography and the business of photography. And then, like you said, when you first started out photographers didn't have websites, but you helped to create a website. So you're kind of at the beginning of that kind of element of photographic business.

Vanessa Joy: 7:39

Yeah, definitely. You know, I helped him build a website, the truth is, I had to fight with him to get one. It was probably a good three to six months of like, ;No, you need a website, you need one, you have to have one'. And yeah, I got to mess around with all sorts of ideas that I had, you know, I built him a blog, I, you know, helped do different advertising, you know, bridal shows and things like that. And then eventually, we did weddings for him. So he didn't even have to be there, which was great.

Angela Nicholson: 8:11

And how did that very first wedding that you shot by yourself go? How did you feel?

Vanessa Joy: 8:14

Oh, horrible. Oh, I remember to this day. So the very first wedding for him that we shot. My friend Marissa and I, Marissa who actually stayed with him, and now owns the business. We walked into this house, uur the bride was getting ready, and it was covered in miniature porcelain dolls. I mean, covered. There was not a stair on the step that didn't have them on. They're not a place anywhere. We want them or like, what are we supposed to, like photograph the rings on the dolls like what in the world? And it was pretty horrible. Yeah, he ripped us a new one to say the least. I mean, we tried to photograph outside, but there was a pool. I will never forget being yelled at for this photo. And we have the bride outside and she's holding her flowers and classic photo of the bride looking down at her flowers. And right in the background behind the flowers was the life preserver, the round circle life preserver for the pool. And it just looked like she was staring at a doughnut on top of her. Okay, like lovingly staring at a doughnut. He just like oh my god, I remember like crying in the background. And he's just berating the photos that we took right from the side because they were just like, yeah, that was my first wedding on my own creepy amount of porcelain dolls and photographing without being aware of the backgrounds. She she liked her photos.

Angela Nicholson: 9:48

Oh, that's what counts. But given that was your introduction to solo wedding shooting, what kept you at it? What is it about wedding photography that pulls you in?

Vanessa Joy: 9:57

You know, in the beginning. I think that's all I knew. too, as far as like a way to make money with wedding photos, and then that it's a wedding, I mean, What's there not to be pulled in by it's all the happy people, you know, as beautiful as they're going to be all dressed up, and I'm one of the happiest moments of their lives. And then there's also the excitement of the fact that everyone's really stressed out and rushed. I mean, it's stressful. But it's, it's a motivating factor. It's, it's something that pushes you and makes your job, not one that you're looking at the clock the entire time. So it's, it's exciting. And they are lucrative, you absolutely make money photographing weddings.

Angela Nicholson: 10:34

Have you ever had any really awful equipment fails or unexpected lighting conditions that made it even more challenging than, say, having a big red doughnut next

Vanessa Joy: 10:44

Oh, yeah, I remember when I was first to the right. starting off camera flash. It was a one thing when we photograph for John, we had to shoot the bridal photos in the church off camera flash. And we were not that great at it. But we had this, you know, one piece of equipment, I feel like they were AlienBees, maybe. And we went over how to, here's how you use them. And we could do it and it was fine. And we knew how to do it. And we get the test shot and everybody's ready. And we throw 30 people up there. And then we take the picture on the flash doesn't fire, and the flash not firing., that's the one thing that you can do where everybody knows that you're screwing up. Everything else, no one really knows you're screwing up until they see the photos. But that like 'oh, flash didn'td fire'. So yeah, we just had to put a flash on top of the camera and bounce flash those photos because we cannot get it to work in front of all those people.

Angela Nicholson: 11:37

So you just basically just styled out, found a different way. Yeah, I mean, I think connecting flash to triggers now is a lot easier than it used to be.

Vanessa Joy: 11:47

Oh so much.

Angela Nicholson: 11:48

But I remember one occasion, just almost being in tears, because you're reading the instructions, and you're following every step and it won't work, won't work. And then it works. And you're just why is that?

Vanessa Joy: 11:58

Oh, it is such a mess.

Angela Nicholson: 12:00

Thankfully, I think things have improved quite a lot.

Vanessa Joy: 12:02

They have really have.

Angela Nicholson: 12:04

Everyone talks about, you know, the stress of weddings, I read somewhere that you said you still feel nervous, you still have butterflies in your stomach when you you're going to a wedding. Is that excitement rather than trepidation, I take it?

Vanessa Joy: 12:18

Yes, definitely more excitement now versus, you know, earlier, it's, it's a little bit of really, I'm really scared, I'm going to screw this up. But I think my mind shift, my mindset shifted when I was looking at it from the client's perspective. So from my perspective, I've seen the best wedding photos in the entire worlds taken by other people, I've seen my good photos, I've seen my bad photos, but for them, they've only seen for the most part, their wedding photos, which they're going to have an emotional attachment to anyway. So they're always going to love them for that. So it's actually a lot easier, I think to please them. Versus if I was photographing just a regular family family photo session that was don't how to hold as much weight as a wedding day would.

Angela Nicholson: 13:08

Do you check out a wedding venue ahead of the event or if you photographed so many weddings that you don't need to?

Vanessa Joy: 13:13

Right. And you know, the way that you kind of asked that question, that's really what I say to them is, you know, I could check out your venue. But the truth is, we're going to spend most of the time, you know, at your parents house where you're getting ready, and I'm never going to see that or we're going to spend it outside at a park and I've seen any park 100 times, it's just outside or, you know, you'll see sure your venue but we're going to be in the ballroom for five hours. So there's nothing that I really need to go see that Google Images isn't going to show me or I have you know, I've been there ready, or, you know, the sign of good photographers being able to walk into any given room and assess the lighting situation in seconds. But I do offer site fees or site visits for fee, because that is extra time.

Angela Nicholson: 13:58

Fair enough. How does that work?

Vanessa Joy: 14:03

No one ever takes me up on it, actually.

Angela Nicholson: 14:05

At least they trust you. I guess that's good.

Vanessa Joy: 14:07

Yeah. Because the second I say sure I can do it a site visit for a fee. They're like, Oh, yeah, it's not worth it. I trust you.

Angela Nicholson: 14:15

You mentioned all the aspects involved with being a wedding photographer these days. We spoke about websites and social media, how important is social media as a marketing tool these days for a wedding photographer?

Vanessa Joy: 14:28

I think it's huge. It's not as big as it was five years ago. But it's still a very big part of where I find clients. It's almost like a medium for word of mouth where before it was a word of mouth marketing, your client is going to tell you know their friend about you and that's still true, but the way in which your client talks about you is now because they post about you on social media. So it's still similar and I think falls in the word of mouth category. But it's more in a social media space. So yeah, just the other day, I booked a client. And they found me through Instagram, because one of the brides that I had photographed was her friend. And she's seen her pictures for the past year. So that's a huge, huge part of it. It's where people also go to kind of validate the people that they're looking at, you know, you can have the beautiful website, but be stealing people's money every time they book a wedding. And you kind of research them by looking on social media for those things.

Angela Nicholson: 15:30

So you mean it's more important that people have somewhere to find you and tag you because you know, we've had a great day and they want to tag you, and then their friends see the pictures, rather than you continually posting, saying,'Hey, this is what the wedding I shot yesterday, and this is what I'm doing now'?

Vanessa Joy: 15:45

It's both. Yeah, it's a little bit of both. Because when I post a wedding, I'm going to tag that bride who's going to share that photo? Or I'll collaborate with that venue who's going to share that photo and then brides and grooms that are looking at that venue, see those photos and then find me? So it's, it's casting a pretty wide net? Do you need to do both? Hopefully, hopefully, other people can post but you can control that part. You can control the fact that you're posting and then tagging them inviting them to share.

Angela Nicholson: 16:15

Yeah, yeah, I guess it's more an advanced form of networking, isn't it? Yeah, it really is. How do you balance that the need to do all that networking and posting with the desire to, you know, well, you need to edit your pictures to create albums to actually do the shooting? What do you have a team doing that sort of thing for you these days?

Vanessa Joy: 16:35

I have a team. And I think that's something a lot of photographers need to do, because most people want to do it. Most people feel the need to do it themselves. So most photographers think, 'Oh, I'm the photographer, I have to edit it, or I have to cull or I have to design the album'. And the truth is no, no, you don't. And there's people who are better at it than you are, whether that's AI that's going to edit you call your photos better or faster than you or other people that you can hire. I personally have a company that does all of my culling and editing. For me, I have a girl that does all of my album designs, including picking the photos that go into the album, I have a girl that helps sell those albums. So I manage everything by prioritising what I do for my clients. That's first. And then second is what to do with all the post date. I've been sick for like the past week. So if you look at my Instagram, now it's pretty light, because I do that myself. But that's okay. As long as it's, it's present, I think it is good. And as long as my clients are happy, they're the priority.

Angela Nicholson: 17:43

Have you retained that part of your work that posting on social media because you particularly enjoy it or you like some, there's some aspect about it that you really like,

Vanessa Joy: 17:51

I do enjoy it, I enjoy. I enjoy posting because then the things that I want to get posted, happen faster. But I also think it keeps me a little bit more relevant. I've given social media managers that task and have handed it off a few times in my career. But whenever I do that, there's a little bit of a disconnect. And I don't see what my prospective clients are engaged in. I don't see what things they're doing and what trends that they like I'm not up to date on. So I do like having that as part of something that I do. Because I think it's important to stay relevant. And especially when you're a wedding photographer, you're dealing with a certain demographic, a certain age group, and it's not my age group anymore. So I don't want to be the old lady wedding photographer that just doesn't get it. I want to be one that's on top of it.

Angela Nicholson: 18:44

Yeah. And I guess as the photographer, you know what happened just before and just after you took that shot. So you know, that can inform your your caption or whatever, you know, you say about the image? Doesn't that makes it more relevant to the couple and not their friends?

Vanessa Joy: 18:58

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it helps. Just having that perspective and having the social media part be social be, you know, actually me and there and engaging.

Angela Nicholson: 19:12

Please excuse this interruption. This podcast is supported by Canon, a leading technology company founded in Japan in 1937. Canon is dedicated to helping people we imagine and push the boundaries of what is possible through imaging. Canon believes in living and working together for the common good to develop a better society and a more inclusive and equitable world. Let's get back to the episode. They do a lot of teaching of photography and photographic business. What triggered you to move in that direction to start developing training courses

Vanessa Joy: 19:46

while I was a teacher, so I went to I want to I think it was WPI one year back in probably 2010. And I had gone to see a photographer that I thought was just me thing I thought it was incredible photographer, was really excited to hear about his work to hear about how he did what he did. And we went there. And he didn't know how to teach. And I'm kind of happy. I don't remember who this was because I feel like he was Jade, Jade and me for a while, but that you just didn't understand how to teach a concept. And I remember thinking, Well, I know how to teach, I have a degree in teaching, I can teach a concept to anybody. So I started, I started teaching, Photo Video fusion actually, along with my husband, we started teaching in small, like photo groups in the area. And then just one thing led to another to another, and it became a full fledged thing. And I like it because I do enjoy teaching. I just don't like teaching Spanish to third, third or fifth grade kids. Very different audience. Yeah. They don't want to be there, versus the photographers do wanting to be there teaching. Usually, sometimes they fall asleep.

Angela Nicholson: 21:00

But no, there's something to be said for teaching people who are have paid to attend a course, because they're going to be there and soak up as much information as they can. They're going to sit at the front and they're going to make notes.

Vanessa Joy: 21:11

Yes, absolutely. It does. They want to be there. And there's weight to them being there like they, they're there because they need to learn something pivotal in their business because their business is failing. Or they need to learn a photographic technique because they keep screwing it up, you know, there's more weight to them actually absorbing the information too.

Angela Nicholson: 21:31

It must be really nice when those people have those light bulb moments when they've realised where they're going wrong or that, you know, that might be somewhere in their business or somewhere in their technique.

Vanessa Joy: 21:40

Yeah, yeah, very much. So it's, it's rewarding in a way that like just taking photos isn't because taking photos, you know, the love them, they'll hang them up, they'll pass down for a few generations. But it's not quite the same as teaching someone how to do that for other people. Like it's so much more exponential, when you're showing someone how to do that how to put food on their table even had a, you know, claim a life that they they've always wanted.

Angela Nicholson: 22:11

Obviously, teaching is something which takes you away from photography, you're talking about photography, but you're not shooting weddings, you're not actually earning money as a photographer, and there's kind of a momentum to that. How do you find the balance between teaching and shooting?

Vanessa Joy: 22:25

It's funny, I was just talking with another friend of mine, Christy Shirk is her name. And she does a bunch of education on Photoshop. And we were just talking about this how we have like two businesses. And there's always this pendulum that's kind of swinging between both of them. And when we work really hard on one, the other one starts to suffer. So you have to swing back the other way, work really hard on the other one, but then you see the same thing happen. On the other side, it's, it's almost like a work life balance question, you know, it's never actually in balance, you're just trying to keep both plates spinning. For me, I never wanted to be that educator that didn't do. So I didn't want to, you know, stop taking weddings, or stop, you know, doing portrait sessions. Because I think, again, with the same thing, I was talking about social media, if you're not in it, you're not relevant, you become very relevant quickly. So I have always tried to make sure that I was working in the field so that I can accurately understand it and teach it. And some people are like, well, you don't really need to do that. Because you know, photography, lighting, so he's going to be photography, lighting. And that's true. But right now with lighting, direct flash is a trend that's happening in the wedding world. So I need to realise that, and then start making YouTube videos about that. So it's, it's a bit of a balance. I think, as I get older, my innate desire is to shoot a little bit less for consumers, because it's a lot more difficult to shoot for consumers and work for consumers than it is to do education or even to work for corporate companies. Like I shoot for Hilton. I go around the world to different resorts that they have, and I photograph their resort properties and working with corporate people who just understand expectations and project management and production. It's so much easier than just photographing consumer weddings or portraits.

Angela Nicholson: 24:32

Yeah, I can imagine because, you know, corporate people, that's what they do all the time. They're working with professional people who are delivering a service but people getting married. Hopefully, they only book a wedding photographer once. So that's the only experience and they kind of pile on a load of expectation.

Vanessa Joy: 24:51

They do because they see you know, their Pinterest boards. They see all the advertising all the social media with all these amazing photos and then they think they can get all of them in one day. And I'm like, no, no, I actually have a client right now that recently emailed me, her photo list. And it's just wild like, not only is it unmanageable completely on any normal given day, but she also has a condition where she can't stand up for long periods of time. And she needs to like take breaks. So I'm like you're giving me probably half the amount of time I need to work and quadruple the amount that's reasonable for the time that would have normally been given. So I get to write that expectation email soon.

Angela Nicholson: 25:37

I know you like to shoot with a photo journalistic style, but do you find that people say, 'Yes, yes, we want that. We don't want any post photos'. But then as it gets closer to the event, they sort of say, oh, but we will need a picture of me and blah, blah, and all of these people.

Vanessa Joy: 25:52

Oh, yes,

Angela Nicholson: 25:52

Do you find that happens a lot?

Vanessa Joy: 25:54

All the time. But I, I recognise that, so I talk about that before they book with me, and tell them, you know, you're gonna want the staples, most likely. And they're like, oh, yeah, we need to have those things. And the rest of it, you know, you want photos that look like they're posed. But nobody really stands there like that. So I'm going to show you how to, I'm gonna guide you I call it I don't call it posing, I'm gonna guide you into situations that I photograph, versus, you know, tilt, turn, smile, so that you get these photos that look like they're candid, but they're really not.

Angela Nicholson: 26:27

So it's quite a full time well, full on process of

Vanessa Joy: 26:29

It is.

Angela Nicholson: 26:30

working with people who aren't models, getting them to get the shots that they really want that they've had in their heads for months, probably.

Vanessa Joy: 26:38

Yes, absolutely.

Angela Nicholson: 26:41

So we've come to the section that called Six from SheClicks, and I've got 10 questions from SheClickers and I would really like you to answer six of them, please. So I'm going to ask you to select numbers from one to 10. And then I'll ask you the relevant questions.

Vanessa Joy: 26:55

Sure. All right. Well, let's just start with 10.

Angela Nicholson: 26:59

Number 10. Right. How did you learn about image selection and album creation to tell the story of a wedding? That questions from Rebecca?

Vanessa Joy: 27:08

Oh, you know, I don't know that. I learned that from anyone as much as I just know what happened in the day, right? You're there you observe the day you're capturing the day. And you know, what's important to your clients. So it's always a mix of pulling from what's important to the clients to what tells the story. Meaning? Do I have wide shots of the entire space, so I have medium shots and close up details of the little things. So it's a mix of all that and just photos that I I like, and then when you throw them all together on the album spreads, making sure that it doesn't look too cluttered. That's a big thing. For me. I don't like my albums to look cluttered. I want them to look like they have breathing room and space. And to make sure that it flows and it tells a story usually in chronological order.

Angela Nicholson: 27:57

Okay, okay, can I have your next number them please?

Vanessa Joy: 28:01

One?

Angela Nicholson: 28:02

Oh, this is a good one, because several people have asked it. You did touch on it earlier, but perhaps you might like to expand a little on your answer. What's the number one piece of advice you'd give to anyone starting out in wedding photography now?

Vanessa Joy: 28:12

Go work for as many different other photographers as you can. So we talked about this earlier, just find people to work for, whether you're just carrying their bags, whether they pay you or not, because the education is so valuable. It's absolutely priceless. And you're just learning what other people do what you like that they do what you realise you never want to do. It's so so valuable.

Angela Nicholson: 28:36

Yeah. Do you have any advice for how you would find those people or approach them?

Vanessa Joy: 28:39

Really groups. You know, it's just making friends. You probably don't want to email random people you don't know. Or reach out to them on Instagram, because they'll probably ignore you. So just find ways to meet other photographers, whether it's groups online in person, asking for referrals, maybe you know, one photographer but they can introduce you to three more.

Angela Nicholson: 29:03

That's great. Thank you. Can I have your next number, please?

Vanessa Joy: 29:06

Number four.

Angela Nicholson: 29:07

How do you stay ahead of the trends in wedding photography? You mentioned that front all flash is popular right now.

Vanessa Joy: 29:14

It is. So Instagram is a great way to see what's happening with the trends and looking and just seeing what's happening, you know, blurry photos or trend right now, intentionally blurry photos that just show like movement, maybe like little dreamlike state, but just keeping up with it being on different wedding publications, seeing what's popular and seeing what your clients like because ultimately, your clients have to like it for you to care.

Angela Nicholson: 29:41

Fair enough. So could I have another number please?

Vanessa Joy: 29:44

Three.

Angela Nicholson: 29:45

Number three. What is your favourite part of a wedding? That question's from Caroline?

Vanessa Joy: 29:50

The morning. I like photographing the details in the morning. It's like a nice calm, I don't have to talk to anyone but I'm listening to everything that's happening all around me all the anticipation of the day the morning is definitely fun at bride's prep

Angela Nicholson: 30:04

Sothe preparations, do you shoot the groom's preparations as well?

Vanessa Joy: 30:08

My second photographer shoots the groom's prep, so I'm not usually there.

Angela Nicholson: 30:12

So you're not running around from place to place?

Vanessa Joy: 30:14

Uh-uh.

Angela Nicholson: 30:14

Sensible. Okay, so your fifth question number, please?

Vanessa Joy: 30:19

Number seven.

Angela Nicholson: 30:21

Number seven. Oh, have you ever had the parents of the bride or groom demanding you take the photos their way? And if so, how do you deal with them? That question is from Ann.

Vanessa Joy: 30:31

Oh, yes, I definitely do. Thankfully, most of my couples will give me a warning of a character like that that will be present at their wedding. I'm pretty good at just placating. So I usually just prioritise you know what the bride and groom want and phrase it, you know, 'oh, I would love to do that. I am going to get through the bride and groom's request lists first. But if there's time when we're done with all the photos that they would like, then I will happily do that'.

Angela Nicholson: 30:59

I like that. Yeah.

Vanessa Joy: 31:01

Yeah. So just kind of put them in their place. Like, 'first comes the couple, then we can get to you'.

Angela Nicholson: 31:08

Yes, I guess it's a bit tricky, if actually, the parents are the ones paying, they haven't been at all the meetings, but they are the ones who are actually paying for the photography.

Vanessa Joy: 31:17

I mean, it can be, but at the same time, they also understand, usually when I say that, okay, we have to get through those photos that, you know, have been pre planned and already agreed to, and then we can get to the other stuff going

Angela Nicholson: 31:33

Well, that's good to know. Okay, so your last on. number, please?

Vanessa Joy: 31:37

Number eight.

Angela Nicholson: 31:38

Number eight. Is there a genre of photography that you do for fun? That question's from Paula.

Vanessa Joy: 31:43

I don't think so. I mean, for fun for me is photographing, like humans. I don't. I wouldn't like go photograph. I don't know, macro bugs or landscapes or anything like that.

Angela Nicholson: 31:56

No?

Vanessa Joy: 31:57

I really just enjoy photographing people. So it's kind of what I do. Anyway.

Angela Nicholson: 32:01

That's lucky.

Vanessa Joy: 32:01

It is it is.

Angela Nicholson: 32:02

Well, you've engineered it that way, haven't you? That's that was the whole point.

Vanessa Joy: 32:05

That is that is the point. I was like, you're pretty busy. A lot of the time. I am. Yeah, my. My new goal is to learn how to rest. I haven't figured that one out yet.

Angela Nicholson: 32:15

Good luck with that. Well, Vanessa, thank you so much for joining me on this podcast and answering all those questions. I've really enjoyed speaking with you.

Vanessa Joy: 32:23

Yes, thank you so much. What a fun way to kind of go through people's questions too.

Angela Nicholson: 32:28

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You'll find links to Vanessa's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.