Elke Vogelsang: Capturing Canine Characters

Elke Vogelsang: 0:03

I take nothing for granted in this and I try to learn and reinvent myself maybe as well.

Angela Nicholson: 0:14

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson. I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. In this episode, I speak with Elke Vogelsang, a magazine and commercial photographer based in Germany, who specialises in animal portraits and is particularly known for amazing images of dogs. She's also a Fujifilm ambassador. Hi, Elke. Thanks so much for joining me today.

Elke Vogelsang: 0:46

Well, thank you very much for having me.

Angela Nicholson: 0:48

Oh, you're very welcome. I was thinking about the last time I saw you in person, and I'm pretty sure it was at Photokina, the trade show in 2018. And you were talking on a huge stage, you were talking about your photography, and I remember going around to the side of the stage a little bit and photographing towards the audience. Because your images were making everybody smile so much. And that must be a really nice thing to be able to do.

Elke Vogelsang: 1:09

Yes, absolutely. It's, that's one of the best things in the job, really. The community of really, really friendly people from all over the world. Also on social media, who just enjoy dogs and photography, that's, that's something I enjoy tremendously.

Angela Nicholson: 1:30

I was talking to someone the other day, and they said, whenever they're out, taking photographs, if they ask someone if they can photograph their dog, they've never been refused. But if you say to someone in the street, can I take a photograph of you? They sometimes say no, sometimes they say yes. But everybody loves to have a photograph of their dog.

Elke Vogelsang: 1:47

Yes, yes, sure. It's a family member, a dog is a family member. And dogs don't care how they look in the picture. But people do. Yes. And it's definitely far easier to please a dog with pictures than a human being, and everybody wants pictures of their dogs. Yeah, they want to have something like a memory and something keepsake, is it.

Angela Nicholson: 2:14

Yeah. And I've noticed as well that if you're photographing a person, and after a while, you know, if they're not a regular model, they can get a bit kind of bored of the event and sort of say, well, oh, that's it now. But if an owner sees you taking a photograph of their dog, they'll they'll have a look at if they think you haven't quite got what they want. Or you know, if this oh, you should see him from this side, or he does this great trick, they're really happy to, for you to take more pictures, which was a real bonus for you sometimes,

Elke Vogelsang: 2:40

Yes. Every dog I meet is new to me and every dog is so very, very different. And I need the owner to tell me as well what they think is special about the dog, because it might be something totally different from what I see in the dog. And I'd love to meet my models twice, at least because in the first session, I get to know them. And in the second session, I already have an idea what I can do with that dog. And the great thing about dog photography is that you've got these really, really different personalities. And that one dog might be shy, but extremely cute. And another dog might be super energetic, but show you the most expressive faces. And yeah, so I, I love to meet these different characters try to find their speciality their, their special face or whatever. And yeah, it's super, super interesting. Sometimes it is very different from, from what the owner expected. And then, of course, at the end of the session, or during the session, I always ask the owner as well what they find special and if the dog knows some tricks, and then we might have other ideas again.

Angela Nicholson: 4:00

Oh, that's that's a really nice idea. Our dogs got a special trick, he can pick two balls up at once. And he's so proud of himself, but not nearly as proud as we are. And your efforts to get to know the dogs are really clear because the character really comes through from their pictures, it's something I find, you know, I instantly recognise one of your images. And that's, I think that's a really, really clever thing. That's obviously taking you quite some time to accomplish. But I wonder if we could kind of wind back a little bit. Because, like quite a few photographers that I know, you went through a career change, didn't you? You went from being a translator, I think and then and a hobbyist photographer to being a part time photographer and I think you said 2011 And then you took up full time photography in 2015. Did you actually make a conscious decision to switch from being a hobbyist hobbyist to being a professional photographer? Or was it something you kind of migrated into?

Elke Vogelsang: 4:57

I'm not a very spontaneous person. And the fact that I switched jobs is already quite a thing for me because I studied something which I thought was quite secure. I was a technical translator for English and German. And that's not a very creative thing. But I thought this is something that I can earn some money with. And I loved photography, always. But I only took snapshots and but with my first dog, I tried to become a better photographer. And, yeah, then we had a very, very stressful time, we're sick family members. And I decided more or less to change my life a little bit to make it more interesting or to have something like yeah, cred creativity in my life. And that's when I started taking more pictures. And later on, more and more people asked me if I could photograph their dog to sigh I registered the business as a photographer, which was quite a courageous step for me. In those days, to nowadays, I'm much more courageous. And yet, I never thought that it would turn out the way it did. That was definitely maybe a dream. But I never thought I would work as a full time photographer. That was something that happened along the way. And because I just put lots and lots of time and effort into this, because it was so much fun. And I enjoyed it so much.

Angela Nicholson: 6:33

Was it something about discovering, or the fragility of life that made you want to do something that really made you happy and excited and to be creative?

Elke Vogelsang: 6:44

Yes, I had quite a lot of responsibilities. We had my mother in law, living with us, she suffered from dementia. And that's something that really occupies a lot of time during during the day, and then my husband got sick. So that was very, very, very stressful. And photography was something that distracted me a bit from this from thinking too much about sick relatives.

Angela Nicholson: 7:20

So really, initially, it was very much you were going to be a continuous a hobbyist photographer, but it was it was a distraction that helped you sort of come to terms with things or get an escape from bad things that are happening.

Elke Vogelsang: 7:32

Yes, exactly. Yeah. And because I enjoyed photography so much, I wanted to spend as much time as possible. So photography, so I was in the very, very lucky position to have a first job as a technical translator as a freelance technical translator, which I could step by step earase. And switch fully, slowly, but fully to photography, it took me actually seven years to say, I'm a full time and I work only as a photographer now.

Angela Nicholson: 8:09

Okay. Yeah, I think there's sometimes there is a perception that people go from one day to the next one day, they're working in one job, and the next day, they've switched to something completely different. But there was a bit more of a transition involved. I think I know the answer to this question. But have you ever regretted making that change?

Elke Vogelsang: 8:26

No, no, absolutely not. It is such challenging thing. Sometimes. I was very lucky or not, I don't think I was lucky. I did put a lot of time into it. And but I my pictures gone viral a few years ago and step by step, I built up this business. And after a while, I was able to stop entirely everything that I didn't enjoy too much. And only do what I really, really enjoyed. This is pure luxury. And you can't really take it for granted. I was in the lucky position for a few years now to work fully as a commercial and editorial photographer, and just taking pictures for my licencing archive. And yeah, I think I enjoy that very, very much. I do think that we have to adapt to new situations every five or 10 years. I don't know. So I take nothing for granted in this and I tried to learn and reinvent myself maybe as well.

Angela Nicholson: 9:42

Yeah, I think we all had a massive lesson and you know, you can you never know quite what's around the corner with with the pandemic. And you know, a lot of people had to rethink things for that I imagined that had an impact on your business as well.

Elke Vogelsang: 9:55

Yeah. In the beginning, I was really shocked but actually I was really lucky in that situation, I got a book contract at the beginning of the pandemic, which was, I don't know, which was a miracle, but it was really, really nice. So I got a bit distracted by writing this book. And later on because people couldn't take images themselves, because everybody was at home, nobody could mean to take new images, people bought my images. So I was actually a very lucky position. During that time. I was very fortunate.

Angela Nicholson: 10:30

That's great. Did you ever doubt at any point that photography could become a full time career for you?

Elke Vogelsang: 10:36

Yes. All the time? Yes, definitely. That was, yeah. Something I never really imagined. And it is difficult. Sometimes you have great months, and you have bad ones. And sometimes they're two or three bad months, and then you start wondering again. And yeah, so it's, it's got its ups and downs. And yeah, you have to be very, very patient in this job and just keep on going.

Angela Nicholson: 11:10

Do you have a mechanism that you use to try and get through those sort of tougher times?

Elke Vogelsang: 11:15

Yes, I have loads and loads of projects, I would like to finish. And I actually enjoy, sometimes quieter times. And just keep on working on these projects. And sometimes also love to do something else again, because I am special. I'm I specialise in these studio images of dogs and cats. And I do this for quite a few years now. And so after a while, you just want to do something different again. So here in my studio, I do I take pictures for myself, and I try out things and I have projects doesn't always mean that they would see the day of light. I just do that for myself, maybe. But I will also write articles, for example. So I, I love languages. And so I, if it's really quiet, and I don't I need a bit of a break from photography, and I learn languages the currently, I try to brush up my Spanish, and then to integrate that into my business as well.

Angela Nicholson: 12:33

Oh, useful. So you can expand out? Sell elsewhere?

Elke Vogelsang: 12:37

Yes, exactly. Oh, so dream is to go to Spain and give workshops there next year.

Angela Nicholson: 12:43

Oh, amazing. That'd be fantastic. And your dogs are Spanish, aren't they?

Elke Vogelsang: 12:48

Yes. But they don't speak Spanish.

Angela Nicholson: 12:51

They're not a great help.

Elke Vogelsang: 12:53

Neither in German nor in Spanish.

Angela Nicholson: 12:55

I know that problem. Very familiar. Are you the sort of person that maps out your career? Did you sort of think through what you wanted to achieve in the first couple of years and have a clear plan? Or did you evolve as you went along?

Elke Vogelsang: 13:07

I do have my plans. I love plans. And I love lists, I make lists, and I try to achieve whatever I put on that list at the beginning of the year. I just love that if I don't know. And when I look back, often, because I'm not the most courageous person. Sometimes I achieved these goals, and sometimes even more sometimes. And so that's, that's something that I enjoyed later on. And sometimes I look back at these lists and see that I didn't work on that topic. And maybe I do that next time. So I do try to have a bit of a structure, try to have a bit of a plan. But without Yeah, without cancelling any flexibility and being spontaneous.

Angela Nicholson: 14:03

When you were first starting out, how did you actually find your first clients? Or did they come to you?

Elke Vogelsang: 14:08

The very first clients were friends of mine, actually the first half year or the first year, it was only people I know and friends, friends, and it was really, really quiet. So it took a while until I got booked by other people. And yeah, that was through my website. And because I posted my pictures on Facebook, and yeah, mostly it was actually lots of people photography as well, though, and the first three years were quite quiet, but then it gradually took on.

Angela Nicholson: 14:51

So you have got involved with other genres of photography. It hasn't always been cats and dogs. Yeah,

Elke Vogelsang: 14:56

I think specialisation is a great thing. to know, so people know that when they are looking for pictures like the ones I do, they come to me because I show these pictures over and over again. And if they find too many subjects on your website, they might not think that you're the, the guy or the woman for that particular role. But that's easy to say when you don't make a living from photography than it is quite handy to have several sources of income or different subjects to photograph because that was dogs only. It would have taken much longer for me to make a living from photography, I guess.

Angela Nicholson: 15:47

Surely cats are harder to photograph than dogs, aren't they? Yes,

Elke Vogelsang: 15:51

If cats don't want to cooperate that's it, you can go home. I love cats, I think they're really, really cool. But it's, for example, far easier to photograph young cats who are still very playful. And elderly cats might not be interested in anything, not in plays, not in treat, treats, and they just don't just sit for your pictures. So I work with family, cats, usually I go to their houses and photograph them in their surrounding. And I usually choose cats who are not afraid of strangers, of course, because a cat who hides behind the couch when somebody visits is not a good subject, they you won't make them act for your camera, if they don't want to. And so yeah, I have some treats as well. But it's more the cats love a prefer often enough action and to play to hunt a feather or something like that. And a dog, you can tell a dog to just sit and yeah, look at the camera. And it cat always needs some bribery. I use bribery for the dogs as well.

Angela Nicholson: 17:13

Yes. And do you? I mean, you photographed your dogs a lot. They must be some of the most widely recognised dogs. But do you always sort of feel a joy when you go to photograph them? Or is it nice to have that variety photographing other people's dogs as well?

Elke Vogelsang: 17:28

Oh, I love having the variety. My own dogs love being photographed. And all three of them were so very, very different that I had a dog. So I had three dogs, nowadays it's two dogs that but um, there were so different in character that I could choose. And because I knew that what Noodles would enjoy was probably not for Scout. And something that Noodles was too energetic and too excited about would be a great job for Scout, for example. And so I had these three dogs, and they are great, great subjects. But nowadays, they're seniors, Scout is nearly 15 years old and that's a huge difference. So she loves she still loves to pose for the camera, but see, would like to have a treat immediately. And yet, she's a bit like a stubborn senior now. And so she doesn't want to do any tricks. I don't make her do tricks, they have to enjoy making tricks. And to meet these different different dogs is something I enjoy very, very much. So nowadays, I hardly take images of my own two dogs. And in any photograph other people's dogs, and I have 1000s of pictures of my own dogs. You never get bored of them though, do you? My dogs are the best models? Of course.

Angela Nicholson: 19:00

Of course. Of course. Now you've been a Fujifilm ambassador, or an X-Photographer as they call them, for quite a few years now. How did that originally come about?

Elke Vogelsang: 19:11

I put all my coverage together and went up to Fuji some Germany on Photokina in pool room. I think it might have been Oh no, I can't remember 2016 is a bit late. But I don't know. And I showed them what I had achieved and talked to one of them. And usually it might maybe not be the best practice because they're very, very busy at these photography fairs. But they somehow contacted me a few weeks later and asked me if I would like to be a Fujifilm X photographer.

Angela Nicholson: 19:54

Oh, it was as straightforward as that?

Elke Vogelsang: 19:55

Yes, yes. I'm not sure it's the best practice. It's I don't know how they To the people, but I was just courageous and went up. I thought I have to do something to make my dream come true in this business.

Angela Nicholson: 20:09

Yeah. At that time, did you have an Instagram presence?

Elke Vogelsang: 20:13

Yes. But when my pictures went viral in 2014 and 15th, I hardly ever stated my Instagram account, I usually just gave my get handed out my Facebook and my website nowadays. Well, I would have had far more followers on Instagram, if I had stated my Instagram site account in those days. But it was also quite handy, because because I always stated my website, my website is all over the place now. And whatever happens to Facebook and Instagram, it's it will always be your website.

Angela Nicholson: 20:58

That's a good point, because you've got quite an extensive gallery of images on your website.

Elke Vogelsang: 21:02

Yeah, yeah, I should update that a little bit. But yes, I think my website is the most important thing. Sure. I have lots of followers on Instagram. And that's super handy. And it's fun. But I think the website is super important.

Angela Nicholson: 21:21

Is there a difference, perhaps, I mean, it's very nice to have followers on social media. And you know, the, you get some great comments and people love your images. But do you find most business comes through your website rather than the Instagram account?

Elke Vogelsang: 21:33

Yeah, that's that's the thing. I'm not entirely sure. I do think so because of what I said, I always stated, my my website, and my images are all over the internet. And people find them on tono Pinterest. And it's usually then pinned to my website or to 500 px, which is so you probably know 500 px, it's nowadays that might not be that important anymore. But a few years ago, it was very important. I have loads of followers on Instagram. But business wise, that's I don't know, if I have lots of followers in Brazil and Argentina, for example, that doesn't really matter. Because nobody from Brazil or Argentina buys something. I love to talk to people from Brazil and Argentina. But yeah, when it comes to business, I get booked by the United States, I do have a lot of lots of followers from the United States as well. But it doesn't really matter. If you have 200,000 followers and nobody buys anything, then it's better. You have only 100 followers, and then they're all the art directors of important companies.

Angela Nicholson: 22:45

And when you get booked by people in the States, do you fly out there to photograph or is it? Are they asking you to work in Germany?

Elke Vogelsang: 22:53

I haven't. I haven't done that yet. And I just have this licencing archive hundreds just sell my images. And sometimes they hire me to do shoots here in Germany that I was I get the products for example. They they sent me the products they want to have photographs of and then I take the images here in Germany with my models. And yeah, the United Kingdom as well. Is a good client a hint. Yeah, for for the UK. For example. I did some projects here also with a video that was super fun. And yeah, usually I do them here

Angela Nicholson: 23:36

What sorts of products are we talking about? Is it pet food and toys and paraphernalia?

Elke Vogelsang: 23:42

Pet food, toys, and collars dog crate.

Angela Nicholson: 23:46

And just returning back to the idea of being an ambassador. Does that put you under any extra pressure as a photographer?

Elke Vogelsang: 23:53

No, not at all. Fujifilm Germany or pretty firm and general I guess is a really really relaxed and cool partner. They don't put put me under any pressure. They they just they love their friendship. Here in Germany. It's the Fuji film school. I'm not sure if you have that in the UK. But you give workshop I give workshops for the Fuji film school in Germany. And otherwise, they sometimes asked me to test cameras and then I take images but they're super fair and friendly and they don't say you have to say this or that. I don't know. I feel no pressure to it's really cool. Cooperation looks good.

Angela Nicholson: 24:39

And the Fujifilm school in Germany, is that a physical school that you go along to to teach events in person or is that an online thing? Or combination?

Elke Vogelsang: 24:47

No, that's in person. So every Fujifilm school teacher sets up his own workshops and what We present our ideas to Fujifilm. And they say, Yeah, that's great. Let's do that. And then, for example, I hire dogs here and I have a some premises or some field and a Gaiden. Where we do that it's a dog school, actually, I hire for this. Or when I go to different cities, sometimes Fujifilm rents a place for these workshops, and then you get paid for the day. And people book the classes, some classes have up to 10, sometimes 12 of participants, then you take images or dogs, and yeah, there are lots of other workshops as well. People photography, and landscapes, everything.

Angela Nicholson: 25:53

Sounds like great fun. I think it'd be amazing if you could do that in the UK, I'm sure it'd be lots of people willing to sign up to photograph dogs with you. In the UK.

Elke Vogelsang: 26:02

Yeah, it's not too expensive, because it does cost something because anything that doesn't cost, everything that doesn't cost, anything isn't worth anything. And but it's not too expensive. And you can ask all your questions, and you can meet and talk dogs and photography all day. It's super cool. And yeah, the Fujifilm fans can ask their specific questions as well. But it you don't have to shoot with Fujifilm, you can join with any camera.

Angela Nicholson: 26:34

Nice. Sounds very nice. My final question on this section is, do you still get excited when you see your images in a magazine or an advert? I mean, I get a little buzz when I see your pictures and an advert or I recognise them. So it must be great for you still.

Elke Vogelsang: 26:47

It is cool, of course after a while as you get more relaxed about it. But it is very, very cool. And sometimes there's something extra special. A cover of a book maybe, or a hole, old picture series. For example, the UK lately, digital photographer did an article with me together. And that was really nice and nice cooperation, which is that I handed in the images and we talked about the text and we did that together. That was really, really cool. And then you have a whole article of I donate I think it was 10 pages or something in digital photographer that I love, especially when it's abroad somewhere. And what Germany is a publication in Germany is nice as well. But I love to know that now shelves in the UK, which helped my image is in some mega tin. It is cool. Yeah, I will always get excited about that. I guess.

Angela Nicholson: 27:56

That's really nice. Is it partly your love of languages as well, to see what you've you've said, appearing in different languages in different countries.

Elke Vogelsang: 28:03

Yes, I do love to combine that. And I'd love to try to prove my languages. Currently, I tried to write articles in Spanish. My Spanish is not that good yet, but I do work really hard on it. And lately, I had a bit of fame if you would like to say that in Argentina, and I got lots and lots of messages from Argentina. And now there will be an article about me. You have a website on a larger website in Argentina and I wrote the text in Spanish I hope they understood. And I said yeah, well that's that's a little bit extra something. It's to be able to combine different obsession. Passions is the better word.

Angela Nicholson: 28:52

Nice. It sounds like you could have plenty of opportunity to travel at some point if you want to.

Elke Vogelsang: 28:56

Yes in the past. I did that with the UK. And I loved it. Yeah, so I'm really really looking forward to travelling to Spain and do a little bit of Yeah, work travel there. Spain might not be as enthusiastic about photography and dogs as the UK is unfortunately quite let's see.

Angela Nicholson: 29:19

We are pretty obsessive about dogs here that's for sure. Well now it's time for the section that we're calling Six from SheClicks and I've got 10 questions from some SheClicks members. I'm gonna ask you to answer six of them. So we'll do that if you could pick a number from to 10 Please.

Elke Vogelsang: 29:35

Eight

Angela Nicholson: 29:35

A number eight. What do you think of subject detection autofocus has it made your job easier Have you tried using it?

Elke Vogelsang: 29:42

Yes, the Fuji X-H2S now has the animal eye detection focus, and I loved it. I am Fujifilm gave me that camera to try it out and it is super, super handy. I loved it. and I will definitely get one of those cameras. I'm currently I have my x t four, which doesn't support, which doesn't have an animal detection focus. So I don't want to buy the next camera immediately I try to be a bit more sustainable. And so I will, but I will one day definitely get one of those cameras. It's it's not that it's absolutely necessary to have that.

Angela Nicholson: 30:33

No. But when you did a few clicks webinar a few years ago, you mentioned that you use single point autofocus, and there is a skill involved in keeping that in the right position, particularly over something as small as a dog's eyes. So do you find that using the subject detection gives you a kind of a bit of more of a freedom to think about other aspects of your photography?

Elke Vogelsang: 30:56

Yes, that's true. When dog runs towards you, for example, the animal eye focus keeps on the eye of the dog. Yeah, you can concentrate more on having the dog in the frame properly. And yeah, it'd be more relaxed. And I had, for example, when a very, very fast dog ran towards me, I had every every image was sharp on the eyes. And that's really, really good, because dogs go up and down with their heads. And it's super difficult. They jumped like kangaroos. And it's super difficult to keep up with that with a single point focusing. And yeah, the the animal detection just does that for you. And that's super cool. Yeah, it's much more fun in my opinion. Because I don't want to, I don't know, I it's it's very handy when the technology sometimes takes over some tasks for you. Because you have to keep in mind so many things. The right lied, the right position and movement of the dog. And yeah, to get the dog's attention.

Angela Nicholson: 32:03

Does that make you more inclined to shoot more of those fast moving shots, then? Yes, yeah, that is, I mean, it's a great thing as well, because most cameras also have a high frame rate. So as their lolloping along and their tongues flailing around and their eyes are rolling around, you've got the opportunity to kind of capture a special moment, haven't you?

Elke Vogelsang: 32:20

Well, without animal detection, I really prefer to shoot with a lower frame rate of maybe five images, because I would like to be able to still focus on what I'm doing. And with the animal detection, it doesn't matter anymore. You just can choose whatever, um, frame rate. Sometimes, of course, it might not be advisable to have hundreds of images, which look nearly the same. But for example, when a dog shakes its head. It's every single shot can be super interesting. And what I love to do with very high frame rates is to do some stop motion videos, for example.

Angela Nicholson: 33:05

What sort of things do you photograph when you're doing that? You got some shots of dogs catching treats and stuff like that would use it for that kind of thing?

Elke Vogelsang: 33:11

For example, and shaking the head and running towards you, or it's just the way of having little videos. It's a bit like slow motion.

Angela Nicholson: 33:20

So, could we have another number from one to 10, pleas?

Elke Vogelsang: 33:23

Five.

Angela Nicholson: 33:24

Number five. Oh this is a fun one. During a shoot, can some owners be more of a hindrance than a help? That question is from Nadja,

Elke Vogelsang: 33:31

Yes. Yes, absolutely. Nowadays, I'm much better at handling that because now I've gotten years of experience and but in the beginning when I was still a bit shy, and I was nervous. That's that's a bit of a problem because the owner thinks he or she has to take over and that you don't they don't know what you're trying to achieve. And sometimes they're more hectic than the dog, they're more nervous than the dog. So you have to calm them down. And yeah, they can be a bit of a problem. But as I said, nowadays, I just tell them all the time, what they should do, of course in a polite and friendly array, but they haven't got a chance to get nervous or to try to be the director themselves. Um, because I'm telling them more or less all the time, what I would like to achieve and what I would like them to do to help to achieve it. And in the past as well, when they were too nervous. I just made them sit somewhere and wait.

Angela Nicholson: 34:40

I was just wondering about that. You know, you have treats for the dog. I wondered if you had maybe biscuits and a cup of tea or something for the owners but in

Elke Vogelsang: 34:47

I always forget that I'm a terrible host I a different room. always forget to serve the coffee. I asked them if they want a coffee or tea and I prepare the coffee in the kitchen and I forget about that. Coffee, it's always the same because when I photograph I would just forget about everything else. Terrible host absolutely terrible host.

Angela Nicholson: 35:08

Very focused. Let's say you're very focused. So can we have another number? Please?

Elke Vogelsang: 35:13

Number three,

Angela Nicholson: 35:14

Number three, ah, now do you select the dogs you photograph and campaigns? Or do the owners or publishers suggest dogs to you?

Elke Vogelsang: 35:21

For campaigns, the companies often have ideas, but I have got a catalogue of dogs, which I could hire for the day. And I present present my this list or these dogs to my client, and they might choose and then I have a look of those dogs are available. For larger projects, for example, you need sometimes you need trained dogs from film school boards, and then you can't choose. And they are already very, very expensive. And they you can't just say we want a Labrador and we wanted ducks on the whatever these film schools have their dogs they work with, and you can't choose that much ready in that case.

Angela Nicholson: 36:08

That sounds like you had to learn a whole different area of not so much photography, but you know, what goes on in the world of film school and that there are dogs trained in that way, you know, you should start off as a as a pet photographer, and then you're going to dog film school.

Elke Vogelsang: 36:25

Yeah, in that case, I personally never hired film schools. That was done by my clients directly, because then you work with some agencies, and they might hire them. And I just am the photographer. But it's very, very different from how I usually work. Because when I take images of family dogs, it's very friendly and super relaxed, and the dog is the star. And when you have this larger, commercial shoots for client, you have lots of people, you have to have very, very cool dogs, which I don't know beforehand. And you have a trainer. I'm a dog trainer, who is very, very protective of his dog, his dogs, which is very, very good, of course. But they want to be the ones who entertain the dogs. And that's difficult for me because I know how to handle dogs. I know how to entertain them. I know how to make make sure they have fun and act act for my camera. It's I once had a bit of a different day difficult day with a trainer because she insisted she's the one who will talk to the dog. And I proved that was the trainer was more complicated than any dog could ever be. I appreciate that because she was protective of her animals, which is good. But finally we found a way so that we both can do our job. That is yeah, the dogs and cats were cool. This year, they actually had cats which could sit on demand.

Angela Nicholson: 38:05

, wow.

Elke Vogelsang: 38:05

And that's that's really amazing animals they have.

Angela Nicholson: 38:09

Yeah. Well, I mean, that takes a bit of doing I think training a cat to do that. Right. So can we have another number from one to 10, please?

Elke Vogelsang: 38:18

One.

Angela Nicholson: 38:18

Number one. Which breed of dog have you found to be the most uncooperative? That question is from Caroline.

Elke Vogelsang: 38:25

Uncooperative, big herding dogs like Kangal, for example. I find them I find, I think they're a bit misplaced in the studio, for example, these huge dogs, which usually would herd sheep somewhere in Anatolia, I don't know. And here in the studio, they just look like what the hell is this? Why am I here? Why are not outside on the fields. So I don't like having these dogs which looks totally out of place in my studio here. And while I had some here, and they did cooperate, but it was very different from a super excited Beagle who just would love to get the food are an Australian Shepherd. So yeah, can guile and Cole, I don't know. These are there. They are very difficult. Sometimes my favourite breeds are hunting dogs, gun dogs. For example. Spaniels and German shorthaired pointers or German pointers. I love them. They are intelligent. They're energetic, but they do cooperate. They love to work with humans. And yeah, they are very expressive, very beautiful in my opinion, and they've got loads of power, but they you can still tell them sit here and look there and yeah, that's that's those for example, my favourites Any kind of hunting dogs who love to work with humans as well, different from the sight hounds who love to just chase hair? And I don't know, they they are not used to working with humans, they just try to catch on or might be difficult even though my dogs are sighthound mixes.

Angela Nicholson: 40:23

Okay, so could we have another number?

Elke Vogelsang: 40:25

Two

Angela Nicholson: 40:26

Number two, some of your images are in the studio and some are outdoors? How do you decide which to go for? And do you have a preference?

Elke Vogelsang: 40:33

In the past when I started out as a photographer, I tremendously enjoy to be outdoors with dogs. And I found study photography to be terribly boring. And I imagined bored dogs on cardboards. But in the winter time, I tried to, I couldn't be bothered to have my camera with me on dog walks, because it was cold and grey. And so I tried out studio photography. And from the very first beginning, I tried to find something that I find interesting, and that was the expressions of the dogs. And when my pictures went viral, those studio images, which were a bit different, because I had to be a bit more creative, I found something that I enjoyed. And that was a bit different. And it struck a chord with people. And so those were the images which went viral. And so I was all of a sudden known as a studio photographer, and which is odd in the beginning. I thought that was not my thing. But I nowadays enjoy it very, very much. The studio is not for every dog, really shy dogs, scared dogs, former stray dogs, for example, who might still be a bit scared of situations. For those dogs, the studio atmosphere might be a bit too challenging. And I photograph these dogs out in an enclosed garden, for example, I still absolutely love outdoor photography for years now I have mostly shots, studio photos. But I want to go outdoors again, it's time, in my opinion to do something else again a bit. And that's why I'm currently looking for outdoor locations and really looking forward to be outdoors again, with dogs. For example, what I do is with old and sick dogs, I prefer out an outdoor situation. Because when they're already weak, and old, the studio is very, very difficult. Because in the studio, you only have the dog as an actor, and outdoors, you can use a nice evening light and the surroundings nature to add to the story to tell your story. And the dog doesn't have to be that present all the time and be. Yeah, I don't know, strong for pictures. So yeah, old and sick dogs I would definitely see prefer to photograph outdoors.

Angela Nicholson: 43:17

Is it the change in the weather? Or or, you know, moving towards spring and having been indoors all through the winter that makes you want to go outdoors? Or is it just you know, a feeling of shifted your photography?

Elke Vogelsang: 43:30

Yes, both both. I don't particularly like the winter here in Northern Germany. It's cold and grey and wet and they are outdoors. And you have to you have to lie on the ground most of the time. And so now that it's spring,

Angela Nicholson: 43:48

ready to do it. That's fair enough. So can we have the last number then please?

Elke Vogelsang: 43:54

Nine.

Angela Nicholson: 43:55

Number nine. Do you employ an assistant to help with some of your shoots these days?

Elke Vogelsang: 43:59

No. I have my husband when I work with my own dogs, our dogs for example. And usually I always have the owner or trainer. And that's enough for me because I usually would like that the dog focuses on me and not another person. Because I went in, make sure the dog looks into the camera. And it's super difficult. When you've got a dog for example, he's very focused on his owner. Yeah, to make sure that he forgets about the owner and another person would be another distraction and now I don't really need that. And I always work with quite simple methods and simple technology I have only one strobe. I would like to make sure that every animal in my studio feels as comfortable as possible. So I use only one strobe which also means that I might have more work in Photoshop later on because As the background is not evenly lit, but when I can make sure that every dog who comes here is happy with the situation that's there, that's better.

Angela Nicholson: 45:12

I was looking at some of your photographs just the other day, and there was one was a serious way you've got the dogs with their tongue sticking out. And you said you did achieve that by holding out a yoghurt pot with a little bit of yoghurt in and the dog would be licking it and then you would pull it away. And I was just trying to imagine how you managed to do that, which I don't want you holding it and trying to balance your camera, or did you have your husband doing it?

Elke Vogelsang: 45:35

No, I do that. And that's I always have only one hand on my camera. And in the other hand, I have a treat or a toy, or a squeaker and you will hardly ever see me with both hands on my camera. Outdoors. Yes, because outdoors, I take images with a tele lens, for example. And then I usually might have the owner to entertain the dog. But here in the studio where I'm very near to the dog. I do that myself and I use one hand on the camera.

Angela Nicholson: 46:11

So I don'timagine for a minute that you're standing upright or putting your camera on a tripod. So you're probably crouching down holding a camera, holding a treat. You must have a core muscles of steel and really excellent balance.

Elke Vogelsang: 46:24

No, I often shake my shoulder because the shoulder gets stuck. And I also had Why do you call it impingement syndrome? If it gets my call in my shoulder got stuck not probably not only because of photography, but it does hurt sometimes and have to do some some exercises for my shoulder. I'm old.

Angela Nicholson: 46:49

Time for more photography outside then.

Elke Vogelsang: 46:51

Yes, exactly to to move a bit more because there's impingement syndrome comes from working too much on the computer to do with my way call me and edit images. That's that's the real problem.

Angela Nicholson: 47:06

Well, Elke, it's been absolutely lovely catching up with you. And I hope that maybe we'll get to see each other in person at some point in the not too distant future.

Elke Vogelsang: 47:15

Yeah, that would be lovely. I really, really missed the UK and I would love to return. And yeah, maybe visit photography fair and see you all again.

Angela Nicholson: 47:27

That will be lovely. Thank you very much for joining me today.

Elke Vogelsang: 47:30

Thank you. Bye bye.

Angela Nicholson: 47:31

Bye bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. If you'd like to know more about Elka you'll find links to her social media channels and website in the shownotes. I'll be back with another episode soon, so please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for she clicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography