Tania Freimuth: Learning from Mistakes and Making Leaps

Tania Freimuth: 0:03

Any artist whatever they're shooting, is their own critic, has to be able to critique their work, has to be able to understand where and how to develop.

Angela Nicholson: 0:17

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts I talk to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. In this episode, I speak with Tanya Freimuth, who developed a passion for photography with a simple camera in childhood. She later studied art at university, but transitioned to cinematography and then began creating music videos before becoming a successful director of photography, and a Canon ambassador. Hi, Tanya, thank you so much for joining me today on the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, it's great to see you.

Tania Freimuth: 0:55

And you, it's an absolute pleasure. Thank you for inviting me to be here.

Angela Nicholson: 0:58

Thank you. So you first got started in photography at a really young age. How did that come around?

Tania Freimuth: 1:06

I think my grandparents had you remember those little Instamatic? They were kind of like oblong things.

Angela Nicholson: 1:11

Oh, yeah.

Tania Freimuth: 1:13

With a really old fashioned little perspex flashbulb that you like, jammed on top. And I guess, I was always sort of encouraged to occupy myself and I think I must have started occupy myself with you know, taking snaps with that, and my grandparents, as grandparents, you know, their benevolence always must have processed them all. And it just kind of encouraged me onwards.

Angela Nicholson: 1:36

Yeah.

Tania Freimuth: 1:37

And then that I moved from that happy snappy as I call them now to I guess what you'd compare to a rangefinder? I don't remember the brand. But suddenly, I was going from little cassettes to 35 mil. And I have to say, when I opened that Christmas present, I was, yeah, probably a bit confused, discombobulated, because I was like, 'Wait, what is this?' And if I'm honest, I felt like that the challenge of moving up the 35 mil kind of stolen, stolen my sort of joy of doing it, but I did eventually figure out how to load the film, how to expose it. And of course, you know, that's all judgement by eye, because there's nothing about those cameras that is automatic.

Angela Nicholson: 2:25

So what age were you when you opened the 35 mil camera?

Tania Freimuth: 2:29

I think probably about 10.

Angela Nicholson: 2:31

Wow. That's great.

Tania Freimuth: 2:34

Yeah, it was one of those Christmas presents, when you know, you've been given something amazing and you're like, 'Oh, I don't know what to do with it.'

Angela Nicholson: 2:41

Yes, you're not going to be playing with it that afternoon.

Tania Freimuth: 2:44

No, and you know that and you know that now you've got this massive learning curve to go on which

Angela Nicholson: 2:49

Yeah.

Tania Freimuth: 2:50

you know, it was a bit daunting. I didn't really have anybody, I mean, my dad's a photographer, or he is now a professional photographer. At the time, it was a hobby for him. And I knew I just wasn't gonna have anybody there to help me do it. I would Neil's kind of been chucked in the deep end, which is his he does have a poor shoulder that he did.

Angela Nicholson: 3:09

For the first few times you do it, it's quite a stressful fiddly thing, pulling that tab of film across and pushing it into the, onto the sprockets and winding it on manually in many cases.

Tania Freimuth: 3:21

Yeah. And then, you know, wait, you've got to kind of learn about aperture. And you know, what the heck is that? And then on top of that, it's, you know, you've got to judge distance. So it's like, a lot of things all at once.

Angela Nicholson: 3:36

Yeah.

Tania Freimuth: 3:36

Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 3:38

Did you learn all that by yourself? Or did you go to any classes or anything?

Tania Freimuth: 3:41

No, no classes, I just learnt it by myself, I guess, making mistakes. I don't have any recollection of any of the pictures that I took, um, in the early days, but it was really a process of elimination, if you like, later on, I think I probably started taking photographs with it when I was about 16 or so.

Angela Nicholson: 4:04

Did you have any female role models or any photographers that you looked up to whose work you wanted to emulate?

Tania Freimuth: 4:09

No, I mean, I think it's difficult to appreciate the difference between life now and life then the I think if if they'd been the internet, yes, we'd be the answer. Because, you know, latterly, you know, like Eve Arnold's work. And Evelyn Hofer, her work is lovely. And there's a documentary photographer called Tish, Tish Murtha. I think there's a documentary out about her now.

Angela Nicholson: 4:38

Yeah.

Tania Freimuth: 4:39

And I guess my biggest influences were photo journalists, actually, because, you know, we always had the Sunday newspapers. And at that time, I think he was called Harold Evans, the editor of the Times, you know, he really supported photo journalism. So I was seeing work by those artists and maybe on which seeing the same work by Jane Bown, for instance. And there's another lady, Lee Miller, maybe I was seeing their work, but not knowing it was them because photojournalism is it was the biggest influence on my choices of, you know, photography, the kind of photography that I was going to do that's reached forwards to my cinematography, actually.

Angela Nicholson: 5:21

And do you do any photography for yourself now?

Tania Freimuth: 5:24

Yeah, so now that you're working on projects is kind of is such a slow journey, you got to think of the projects, you've got to work the project through, you got to, you know, and then allocate the time, which when you're balancing, you know, earning a living, because photography is not something I primarily earn a living by life sort of ring, fenced it with purpose, because I really wanted to be able to do something creative. That was simply for me, and I always find what's money gets involved, you know, you'll, you know, nine times out of 10, you got a brief, of course, you have a brief and requirements. So it's sort of, yeah, so I sort of ring fence it and do my own personal projects with it, which hopefully, that I exhibit, and then hopefully, somebody will buy them.

Angela Nicholson: 6:10

So what sort of thing is typically one of your projects, are they very varied?

Tania Freimuth: 6:15

No, I mean, there's still, so I did used to do a lot of street photography. And those would sort of take the, I guess, I'd be the sort of, you know, the travelling photographer with mates or, you know, on adventures, backpacking adventures, and that sort of carried forward. I mean, sometimes I just be allocated the role, which is great. But I recognise that, unless you had, I sort of felt something was missing, I suppose. And I was very fortunate to work with a photographer called Jez, Jez Dickson, who actually works in the wedding photography market, who was going through a bit of a change over for himself with his photography, and he made me aware of that, you know, there's my work would have more substance, or authenticity or integrity to to an audience if I could focus on a subject. So my inspiration generally comes from art, because before I did, work went down and sort of camera and lens through, I know, I was really kind of like, 'Oh, I'd like to be an artist', probably like a lot of people. But I sort of lost my confidence in my abilities. And so you know, that's where the photography came in. But it now remains my greatest source of, I guess, inspiration. And then the other thing I've got, is a weird obsession about is love this, and the elements are out of that our time, sort of become aware, it's, I'm trying to some time, somehow freeze time, hold a moment, savour a moment. And then the sort of aspects of there just being one thing, you don't have to have hundreds of something for it to be a value, you can just have one thing, which as I say it now sounds like stating the bleeding obvious, but volume is a big thing in our society. You know, more, more more, isn't it? Yeah. So I guess those are the elements that I've looked at.

Angela Nicholson: 8:06

And you said, you know, hopefully, exhibit and sell your prints? Is that always the end goal for you, you know, putting a certain number of images together that are printed and exhibited?

Tania Freimuth: 8:15

Yeah, I mean, I've only heard I've only managed it once. Because it's a whole other skill set, isn't it?

Angela Nicholson: 8:22

Yeah. Oh, gosh. And I think people completely underestimate how much work is involved. You know, it's one thing having the images, but actually putting a cohesive exhibition together, printing them, finding somewhere to show them getting them on the wall, whole different thing.

Tania Freimuth: 8:37

Yeah, massive journey. I mean, one of the big mistakes I made with the project that I was working on most recently, was not how were in a sense how they were printed, I wanted them to be big. So they're sort of 20 by 16, then managed to find a printer that within could embrace what I was trying to achieve, which in itself was quite difficult. Most people just did not understand. So I did need to make some compromises. But also, I didn't understand that I'd need to back them. So they're all quite thick paper, but actually for them to hold their own. So yeah, I feel a bit of an empty in that respect. But unless you make the mistake, you know, unless you go into college, where you can learn these things. If you're flying by the seat of your pants, you kind of got to learn in the field, I suppose.

Angela Nicholson: 9:30

Yeah, as everyday to school day, but also you just don't know what you don't know until you come up against it. And if you start a project that's how you'll discover the things you need to learn, isn't it?

Tania Freimuth: 9:41

Yeah, see, the guy I talked to at the framers, he was like, well, you know next time, there's some people can be really gruff, but they mean it with kindness. .Next time just just come here first, will you?' I suppose you know, you must have liked them and just felt impatient.

Angela Nicholson: 9:56

Yeah, I could also see that you were going to do it again.

Tania Freimuth: 10:00

Yeah, which is nice actually, like, I will go back there because I think one needs relationships you don't I think we can be so self serving nowadays with the internet and our phones and you know, it's almost like, well, you don't need anybody else, which obviously is is not true, we do need each other. But in work, we need each other. Because that's a sharing of ideas, you know, you just don't know where it's going to learn. And then, you know, for him, I will go back to his framers and speak to him about the project before I shoot it while I'm in the process of shooting it. So before I get around to printing it, I will go to him speak to him first and get his advice about how I should print.

Angela Nicholson: 10:39

Oh, I think you're absolutely right. Connections are so important. I think it's it's a key thing in every aspect of life, I think. So you're clearly very passionate photographer with, you know, with a clear vision of what you want to achieve, but

Tania Freimuth: 10:51

Ah, thanks.

Angela Nicholson: 10:52

What, so what was it that drew you to cinematography rather than stills photography, as a career that is?

Tania Freimuth: 10:58

I spent some time working at a photography store on Great Marlborough Street called Keith Johnson Photographic which gave me an insight to the selling of, you know, fill and papers and all that and that led on to a summer sort of placement at a printers it used to be on Wardour Street. That used to be the home of photography, but not so much anymore. And I think I just thought to myself, gosh, am I going to earn an, am I gonna manage to earn a living, I mean, perhaps I was just intimidated by the whole process, and not really knowing how I channel. I mean, with hindsight, always being 20-20, I really should have taken the place I had at London College of Printing as it was back then, and that probably would have taken me down the path of photojournalism. But I guess I decided, well, I don't think I am going to be able to earn the sort of a living doing this. Maybe this isn't for me. And at the time, during that printing session, I was printing prints of movie stars, for a shop that used to be on Great Titchfield street selling movie memorabilia. And it sort of joined two dots because although I love photography, I used to be an avid movie watcher. And so I was like, oh, and somewhere within there. The suggestion came from a kindly cheater at a Sixth Form College that was attendee that maybe I should go do field studies as a starting point to figure out what I would do with myself. And I guess that it was a sort of being in college, I could, you know, believe in, I'm always a person who wants to make use of myself, and to do things and help be helpful. And what little knowledge I had a photography obviously went straight into the camera side of things. They had a small studio there. So I was quite happy, released enjoy, like using the studio cameras. And then of course, the projects was short on film. So yeah, I had an understanding by that point of, you know, what it is to underexposed and overexposed. And so yeah, it kind of like was two in two minutes for in a way.

Angela Nicholson: 13:13

So how do you progress then from college to actual employment, you know, actually making some money from the industry?

Tania Freimuth: 13:20

Yeah, good question. Well, initially, I have to say was, I didn't believe I was fortunate that some fellow students had messed up a project. And the people who had invested in the project, but they still wanted their project, and I saw the opportunity to shoot that project. And we were very fortunate to win the competition that the project was put into. And that gave us film stock money to process and I think we already had access to people with equipment. So we spent so we there's a lot ourself and the team of other people, I sort of colour led us into it. And after that, we moved on so right, well, let's shoot some music videos, which sounds like so easy slips off the tongue wouldn't go so fast, what was a disaster, but it certainly was a steep learning curve, for lots of reasons, not least the volume of material that are really needed to make a cracking music video. So that was, that was like the first two years after leaving college and just sort of investing time enthusiasm that the thing was always like, well, if we get paid to do it, put as much of the money as we got into the project, you know, pay ourselves a little bit but basically investing in the outcome. And that paid off and that did pay off. We didn't get signed by a small production company in London, but we were in Manchester and they were in London. And that was it. That was a minor hurdle. I don't expect it would be the same today. But back then the distance of not being on the doorstep to pitch for projects and get your face around town.

Angela Nicholson: 15:12

What sort of era are we talking about?

Tania Freimuth: 15:17

Late, late 80s 90s. So the whole indie music scene in Manchester sort of, you know, the hand past the end, it was just hitting its heyday, bands like the, I think The Farm were around, we worked for the Mock Turtles. I'm still really quite proud of what we achieved to be fair. And it was a sad moment to realise that it had run its course.

Angela Nicholson: 15:41

But video, music videos were really taking off in those days, just a whole transitional thing from just watching people on Top of the Pops miming or, you know, some slightly dodgy camera work going on, but then these really slick videos came along.

Tania Freimuth: 15:56

Yeah, and now was absolutely, all of a sudden, like, inspiring. I mean, there was U2, there's, I mean, U2's videos were just phenomenal. And I mean, I know, these are all bands from back in the day, but I remember seeing a fee from INXS, as well, from Simply Read, we were, I just, you know, play back and forth, you know, used to record The Music Show on Saturday mornings, and on VHS and just play them back and forth till we to understand what they were doing, and try and figure out the techniques. And of course, some of it, a lot of it was in camera in those days, but then eventually, the post production technology was catching up big time. And a lot of it was done in post. So I had a madcap idea because he had to go into the record companies, the marketing department and pitch for the band, even though the band, you knew the band wanted to work with you. And I knew I wanted to work with them, you still have to go through the process and pitch to a marketing company who really want their mate to shoot the video, or their boyfriend or their mother or whatever. And, and I remember sitting this pitching session and thinking, 'Oh my god, we're losing it will bloody losing it. Well, how about this for an idea? We put some tattoos on, and we bring the tattoos to life.' And I remember my partner in crime go, 'Oh, what are you talking about?' And of course, they bit, because they didn't know what I was talking about either. I reckon they probably thought we'd fail. But very, very fortunately had a great editor who knew a chap who worked for a post production facility. I remember he's called Finley, but I can't remember his last name. Anyway, him his partner worked with a piece of technology. I think it was called Henry or Harry, where you could basically rotoscope something that was drawn, like into real life, morphing, I think it was called. So it took us on a on a good journey and good learning curve journey. So yeah, I mean, slip of a tongue. But with a great outcome.

Angela Nicholson: 18:02

Sounds exciting.

Tania Freimuth: 18:03

Yeah, it was. Yeah. Terrifying. absolutely terrified, but quite exciting.

Angela Nicholson: 18:08

Yeah, yeah. Fantastic. Then you progressed from music videos to more film work?

Tania Freimuth: 18:15

Yeah, so the music video journey came to its own end. And then I was like, Well, what should I do now. And one thing that had troubled me about the music videos was I was really getting more into the production side, I was I had become the, although my creativity still went into them, I'd become the sort of chief cook and bottle washer of the production department. And so I was sort of getting very separated from being on set. So actually, the ending of that journey gave me the opportunity to sort of not reinvent myself, but to take a different approach. And I decided, well, I'll aim for the camera department, because that's where I think I wanted to be in the first place. And so eventually, after a lot of door knocking, I got breaks to be in house loader for a couple of production companies, who made commercials in Manchester. And that sort of developed kind of reasonably good, medium to long term working relationship with a couple of DPs. And then, you know, my goal was really always to be working in narrative fiction. And so eventually, I started assisting for Granada on their television dramas, which back then were all shot on film. Exciting stuff as well. Now, when you were talking there, a whole load of questions popped into my head. So I was thinking, you're talking about the sort of direction that you've got moved in when you were in working on music videos. And I just wondered, were you the only woman were there any other women working in the area? Or in your team? No, well, there was initially but she went off and started work, she was she wanted to be in TV. And she took herself off and started working, do you remember The Hitman and Her?

Angela Nicholson: 19:52

Oh, yes.

Tania Freimuth: 19:53

She got her break in TV doing that sort of work. So she went off which which left me And the person who was my partner at the time, as well as in work, you know, and he wasn't going to do the phoning around, and the booking and the investigation and the research.

Angela Nicholson: 20:12

Right.

Tania Freimuth: 20:12

So that that sort of fell to me. But I mean, at the end of the day, as much as I didn't want to be behind the desk, you know, did mean I found out about stuff I learned about stuff.

Angela Nicholson: 20:22

Every organisation needs somebody who can do or you know, one person who can do a bit of everything. So you get you get full coverage, don't you, but sometimes you, you do end up taking on those mantle's that you'd really rather not just because somebody else absolutely won't.

Tania Freimuth: 20:36

Yeah, and like, to be on the shoot on the shoot days, for instance, rather than, you know, being able to just be by the monitor, or by the camera as it was more than and actually really watching what was going on and paying attention to what we were filming, which were my ideas also, you know, I'd be getting people going live, we're gonna have lunch, we're gonna go park the car, we're gonna pay my overtime, you know, we're gonna go go to overtime, all that sort of. Yeah. All that nitty gritty sort of stuff that that no, no show runs without, you know.

Angela Nicholson: 21:09

Yeah, yeah. And you said that you started work as a loader. I think probably a lot of people who don't know what that is.

Tania Freimuth: 21:15

Ah, so a clapper loader, so, basically loading film. Okay. One of the weird things about the film industry, I think, is that, you know, the way is like, Well, I suppose like a house, the weight is on the foundations. And the clapper loader is the bottom of that, like pyramid if you like, and it's your responsibility to load the film stock, which you know, requires quite a lot of knowledge to be honest, and management skills. And then at the end of the day, download the film stock, as exposed, put it into a can send it for labs, and not the setup.

Angela Nicholson: 21:55

Not take the lid off to just make sure it's in there and things like that. So how did you work your way up from there?

Tania Freimuth: 22:01

Gosh, well, any jobs, it would just be me as the loader. And then as you get more experience, you know, you start working with teams of people. And with that just comes more responsibility. And because the more capable you are as a team, the more responsibilities you can take on. And eventually, a lot of the jobs that I did were two camera jobs. So there was an expectation that at the drop of a hat, the second camera would come out. And in those moments, I've been loading for quite often loading for two cameras, unless we had a trainee that could bump up or and focus pulling for one. And so that way, you start honing your skills to the next step of the ladder, which is focus pulling, eventually you go, I don't want to do this lighting thing anymore. I'm just gonna be focusing.

Angela Nicholson: 22:44

And what's the next step from focus puller?

Tania Freimuth: 22:47

The next step from focus puller is camera operating, or not, not necessarily, but could be I mean, if you want to stay in your, in your grade, stay there, you know, there's nothing to say that you have to move on. If it's serving you, then you know, if ain't broken, don't fix it. I, however, didn't really have any desires to stay in, in the clapper loading role. And I didn't do it for a good many years, then moved on to focus puller. Now the next step is a huge can be a huge leap. Generally, they'd say, move on to camera operator. And at that point, you might go well, that's the pinnacle of where I want to go. And then I'd ask the camera operator, you could move on to cinematographer or director photography, I made the giant step for myself, because I mean, some people are fortunate and get bumped up just by working the team and that gap becomes available. And you can just move on and others of us just have to make a decision. We're just going to do it. And I just decided one day, I just had enough. And I didn't, I was like'God, do I want to you know focus pull for another 10 years before I start doing what I want to do, or figuring out if working cinematographer is what I want to do, or am I just going to take the leap. And coincidentally a colleague of mine, he'd been a loader had stepped up. And he'd done a bit of focusing, and he just stepped straight up to being a DP. And I thought, well 'In for a penny in for a pound. Here we go.'

Angela Nicholson: 24:15

You can wait a lifetime to be ready for something got you or you can just sometimes go for it. Yeah,

Tania Freimuth: 24:21

and I'm a slow mover. So you know, I've taken a lot of time to make that decision. So really, you know, it was like, well get on with it. You know, it's gonna take you a while anyway. So you might as well start now. So I did.

Angela Nicholson: 24:35

So what is the life of a cinematographer? What is the role?

Tania Freimuth: 24:39

Well, that's a big one. So there's lots of interpretations, I think for for where that title comes in. I think typically, I'd say a cinematographer is somebody who's involved in visual storytelling, so that could be documentaries, and that could be narrative fiction, and of course cine You know, typically it would have been cine, but we're in a whole entirely digital world. But I think, you know, the projects, the output of the project, so short films, you're really looking for something that's going to be broadcast or for theatrical release, I would say that that would be the typical expectation of somebody who's calling themselves either a director of photography, or a cinematographer. And it is sort of more defined by the output. But of course, it doesn't stop anyone you choose your title. If you've if you've woken up today thinking you're going to be a cinematographer. Well, well, you are.

Angela Nicholson: 25:32

Yeah.

Tania Freimuth: 25:33

Because nobody else makes that decision for you. Does that kind of answer the question? I think I might have gotten off track?

Angela Nicholson: 25:40

Well, I think there's a lot of people who don't really know what a cinematographer, or director of photography does, on a day to day basis in a set. I mean, it seems to be like the gel between the the director and the rest of the crew working that helps deliver a creative vision, but I've never done that job. So I don't know, you might be thinking no. no.

Tania Freimuth: 25:59

No, no, that's a pretty good way of putting it. I like that, I think we are the gel, I think. So if you're a cinematographer, you're, you're you're I would say you're more likely to be operating the camera and integrity involved in the lighting, and have a close working relationship with the director. A lot of our work goes on this work, documentaries, as well, but a lot of what goes on in prep. So if you're talking, you know, you've got to get to know the story. Got to get to know the directors wishes. And then it's down to that person to figure out how to best interpret those wishes and bring them to life. You know, what are the visual references, look at theirs? What are yours? join it together, so you can decide on like the colour? And the look, in my personal view, I think the cinematographer is the first audience of a movie before, you know before it gets out there, when not as a motive really involved in the story at that point, as the director would so we're not caught up in like, what's the character's motivation for this. So we're kind of looking at it. And if things don't add up, then there's a gap, right? I was fill, it's up to us, you have to flag that gap. There's even if there's no dialogue to fill that gap, or dialogue to fill that gap is unnecessary. That means we have to find the visuals to fill that gap. And that will generally be to support a character as presence in terms of justify that character's presence within the narrative, or to bring forward like the subtext of the movie, okay.

Angela Nicholson: 28:09

Or you personally, generally, these days holding a camera, are you talking to someone holding a camera, or operating a camera, I should say.

Tania Freimuth: 28:19

I've done I've done both, I must admit, I prefer to be holding forward slash operating the camera. And this is where like, if you're not, you're more a director of photography, and that means your head over. I mean, even as a cinematographer, you are head of the department. But what my experiences of being the Director of Photography are, there is a heck of a lot of you know, people management is sometimes one job, I did two full crews, but the operator is taking the brunt of the planning for the shots, which you which one's party to because you got to try and, you know, hopefully, you know, got a good enough working relationship whereby, you know, the shot that's been designed isn't going to show up all your lights that you inevitably need to put up. And so that frees the Director of Photography will then be working with the gaffer more specifically to sort of like, you know, keep that team ahead of what the camera department is about to do. So everybody's sort of ready to go because all these things work in parallel. So it's a lot of time management.

Angela Nicholson: 29:24

You've mentioned, you know, working as a team, we've touched on forming connections. And it sounds like you mentioned also developing a working relationship with people. There's a lot of collaboration in what you do. So do you find that you work with the same teams or the same people quite regularly because you understand each other's processes and you get on well, and you work creatively together?

Tania Freimuth: 29:45

Yeah, definitely. This is sort of trust as well, I think that that comes out of that, you know, that you can trust somebody to be cracking on with something, you don't have to be intentionally or unintentionally micromanage them, you need just gonna turn around and like, boom, it's going to it's going to be done. And also, knowing that they understand, you know, ones in geosynchronous ease is helpful. Or they know how you want to, you know, you're gonna want the monitor over there, you're gonna work this on the monitor that you know, it's just, yeah, it just eases the day, I guess it's like, you know, same as you know, your socks are in the bottom drawer and your T shirts are in the drawer below that or above that, you know

Angela Nicholson: 30:24

You're not continually saying to sugars or whatever.

Tania Freimuth: 30:26

Exactly. And in a human beings are creatures of habit aren't we?

Angela Nicholson: 30:30

Yeah. Just sort of shifting tack slightly. There's been lots of interesting exciting developments in cameras over the last few years. Is there anything that is sort of coming along or recently arrived that's been particularly exciting for you particularly helpful maybe help with your job.

Tania Freimuth: 30:48

A DP called or cinematographer I think it's how he prefers to refer to itself called Ed Lachman. It's been working for some years on a an exposure tool, similar to something that we call false colour. But they're going to be called the E L zone, which more accurately reflects because a lot on digital cameras we rely either on histograms or waveforms and some people tend to use false colour, which is a visual representation of that but a bit like ordinary 18 You know, seven stock grayscale was superseded if you like by Ansel Adams zone system.

Angela Nicholson: 31:26

Right.

Tania Freimuth: 31:27

If you wanted to get your whites white and your blacks black, you tend to use the zone system. Well, so Ed Lachman's scale which is now built into some monitors allows us access to that in terms of exposure so we're not limited to the 18% grey so much the thing I'm loving the most I recently got a (Canon) R5c because I was waiting for that moment when the technology and cameras was gonna balance out a bit and it was worth making the investment and you know, I still shoot video but I still take photographs. I wanted a good hybrid and the R5c landed, so I was like, yeah, yes, but the thing that really excited me about that is that I can now put my (Canon) FD lenses which I've been hanging on to for donkey's years. I didn't know whether to sell them or get them rehoused. And I've tried various adapters that never worked successfully enough for me to be convinced to it by foot to go from FD to E F bodies. But now St. Paul little adapter ring onto my oh five cm boom, I can use all my FD glass.

Angela Nicholson: 32:33

Oh, wow. So it's nothing to do with all the autofocus advances that have been made, you're manual focus.

Tania Freimuth: 32:41

Well, yeah, I'm a manual focus bunnyy. I mean, yeah, the autofocus stuff is great. And it's amazing technology, and the R5c, I mean phenomenal thing about that it's it's got full colour built into it. So from the video side. And you know, it does have very intuitive autofocus, but I guess when I'm taking photographs now, you know, they are much more considered. I am much more in control and purposeful about what I'm taking a photograph of. So I'm not out there, I guess they're sort of home. It sounds like they have a grandiose title, but they're more fine art photographs. So I'm much more I'm slower and be more purposeful about what I'm doing with it. So the focus being done form is less important.

Angela Nicholson: 33:33

Fine. So does the false colour on the R5c work in stills mode as well as video mode. I've not tried it.

Tania Freimuth: 33:41

That I don't know, actually.

Angela Nicholson: 33:43

Okay. I asked because I have used a Phase One camera in the past that I could use false colour with in stills. And it kind of changed my experience. Well, how I felt about the photographs, I felt a bit like a data gatherer rather than a photographer. Which, so that was it was slightly different. I guess, you know, I can see absolutely see the benefits for video, obviously.

Tania Freimuth: 34:05

I think in a way we are data gatherers. And were we not when it was film? I don't know what I did didn't ever feel like that on film, but sometimes with video it definitely does. You know, with digital, yeah, it really definitely does feel like that. And in terms of stills, one of the big issues I faced with the project I did with flowers was that they had to be against complete darkness, they had to be in darkness. They just obviously they weren't because they're illuminated. But, just, it was really important you didn't see the light. And so at that point, you're working, I was working at very low levels of light. And with red flowers that became problematic. It took a lot of investigations to figure out how to stop the red bleeding into the other channels. Because when it did, he got this sort of phosphorescent effect to the picture, which I most definitely didn't want. I mean, and by using that, I mean talking of data, which is where we're at. By using the histogram, I could see where the red channel was jumping over into the green, and that is what was causing the phosphorescence.

Angela Nicholson: 35:22

We often rely on just the the overall histogram, don't we, but being able to break it down and see RGB is really really useful, particularly in that instance.

Tania Freimuth: 35:30

Yeah. And then nowadays, I think I'd be inclined to put in a colour chart because of course, if you're doing your own printing, it doesn't really, it's not a problem because you know what colour red you're seeing, but if somebody else is doing, you're printing it, I now would be dropping in a colour chart, just because I want it to be that red or, you know, the colours now have known numbers that are in all the editing software that we use, whether it's Photoshop or DaVinci. It's all in there, so it's trackable. Well, I think it might be a good time to go to Six from SheClicks. I've got 10 questions from SheClickers and I'd really like you to answer six of them, please, by choosing numbers from one to 10. So can I have your first number, please? Let's go for 10

Angela Nicholson: 36:14

Number 10. Okay, right. Few people ask this one, what has been the highlight of your career so far?

Tania Freimuth: 36:22

Well, I was a very recently, the success of an indie film that I shot has just done phenomenally well, at six festivals. And it's a highlight because it's so rewarding to see all the love and attention and going in, that went into the film. Reflecting back in its success, so you know, I'm super happy about that. And, yeah, it's it's extremely rewarding also to do something that people enjoy.

Angela Nicholson: 36:56

Congratulations on that. So you have to tell us the name of the film.

Tania Freimuth: 37:00

Thank you. Verdigris. It's doing its festival journey at the moment. I'm not sure where it goes next has just been in Cork Film Festival look like? Yeah, I'm not sure where it goes next.

Angela Nicholson: 37:12

So is it likely to be in cinemas at some point or on TV or something so everyone can see it?

Tania Freimuth: 37:17

I think it's probably likely to go on to a streamer that I think the first year tends to be committed to festivals to sort of build up its presence and for it to get known by people who sort of buy and sell movies. And then after that it will go on to to a platform, but I don't know which. The Contestant which is a documentary I shot, which by the way, if you get the opportunity to see is a really great documentary, directed by Clair Titli. And it just just is phenomenal. It's I think Rollingstone said it's the what the XXXX movie of the year for them. That's been bought by Hulu. And it's a major that I mean, that's also so I think this year, it's those two films are just phenomenal.

Angela Nicholson: 38:08

Okay, so The Contestant and Verdigris.

Tania Freimuth: 38:10

Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 38:11

Okay. So can I have another number, please?

Tania Freimuth: 38:14

Oh, let's go for three.

Angela Nicholson: 38:16

Number three. Oh, what is the thing that a cinematographer? Does that would surprise someone who's not a cinematographer? That question is from Liz.

Tania Freimuth: 38:24

Probably all the the script breakdown work, probably all of that. So we read through the script, as I mentioned earlier, so we work with the director to build that visual narrative, but we're looking for subtext to bring to the visual narrative. So it's script background looking for beats and turning points. Yeah, that's probably say that's, that's the one thing that probably people don't expect cinematographers to be doing?

Angela Nicholson: 38:48

Yeah. Kind of piecing it all together in your head, in a way.

Tania Freimuth: 38:52

Yeah, it was more like fine finding meaning finding meaning and slow, and easing and the rhythm within the film, and then finding the shots that will support that rhythm. So if you've got a dramatic moment, saying, you know, somebody's going to break into a room, you probably want to close up of the door handle. But, you know, the director might be more focused on the characters response, which makes sense, because he will see the character's response, but we'd have to be going no, we need the door handle shot. So it's those sort of things.

Angela Nicholson: 39:28

Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Sounds like that's quite a long process.

Tania Freimuth: 39:32

Yeah. Yeah, I'm about to do a short film, and we're just kind of going through all those things at the moment. And the Director is open to it, which is good, but even he's a little bit like 'really doing it?' I'm like, 'Yeah, you're gonna need it in the edit'. So we've got to supply material to the editor, so that they can move this way or that way. Kind of like having eyes in the back of your head.

Angela Nicholson: 39:54

Can I have your third number, please?

Tania Freimuth: 39:56

What shall the third number be? Seven?

Angela Nicholson: 39:59

Seven. Okay. What's your work schedule like? Do you spend a lot of time away from home for instance?

Tania Freimuth: 40:05

Can do, yeah. And the hours are long. So you're on set for at least you're on set for breakfast for

7: 40:13

30. So that probably means you're on set at seven. You want to get away on wrap. But wrap is around about seven o'clock, six, seven o'clock, but the chances are you'll probably have a meeting afterwards. So I don't see much of the outside world. Yeah. During that time,

Angela Nicholson: 40:33

And how long does that go on for?

Tania Freimuth: 40:36

It really depends on the project. So well, Verdigris was shot in Dublin. So I was in Dublin for I think best part of a month. And often we're working six day weeks. So you're either like away, gone, or rattling around the place being a nuisance.

Angela Nicholson: 40:55

Okay, can I be a fourth number, please?

Tania Freimuth: 40:58

Let's go for number one.

Angela Nicholson: 40:59

Number one. Okay, what camera or lens have you owned but have let go and you'd like to get back?

Tania Freimuth: 41:04

I'm a hoarder. I don't let go of anything.

Angela Nicholson: 41:08

Hence, you've got your FD lenses.

Tania Freimuth: 41:09

Yeah. Until I'm really convinced it just does not serve me anymore. I mean, I've still got my 7D, right. It's not useless. But the chip technology has changed so much. And I've done a lot of you know, I had a lot of clicks, as they say, but it's my you know, for a photographer, or a cinematographer. Like it's an inanimate object, which I'm heavily invested in, which is, I think that's the thing. So I find that incredibly difficult to get rid of. And there's always like, yeah, so I don't know I have my great uncle's Nikon, I've just been handed somebody's in the family was giving away their Canon AE1, I think it is.

Angela Nicholson: 41:49

Nice.

Tania Freimuth: 41:50

You know, he just called No,

Angela Nicholson: 41:52

no. What about the camera you were given when you were seven? We still got that? Or the 35 mil you were given?

Tania Freimuth: 41:58

Now that is a good question. That's gonna get me ferreting around in the loft. I'm fairly convinced that yes, would be the answer to that probably D you know, great.

Angela Nicholson: 42:08

I've still got a Box Brownie I bought for 15p when I was about 10. It wasn't new for 15p, I should point out it was secondhand then, I'm not that old.

Tania Freimuth: 42:19

But then, the other thing is, is you just don't know the value of it. I mean, the FD lenses, to all intents and purposes, once we switch to digital, we have no value. And then people started looking for lenses with an aesthetic. Because obviously as we went digital, everything got super super crisp.

Angela Nicholson: 42:40

Yes.

Tania Freimuth: 42:40

And like no shallow depth of field. And, and then eventually people were like, you know, what, how am I going to bring myself into this project, if everything's so clean, like, so this people started looking for ways to to be creative and vintage lenses for that. So although I thought of selling them, my heart wasn't in it. And then I thought of getting them rehoused, which is phenomenally expensive and quite a lengthy process, but you know, potentially worthwhile. But now I can can use them on my R5c. So it's brilliant, a win win.

Angela Nicholson: 43:16

Absolutely. So your penultimate number then please?

Tania Freimuth: 43:19

I think we've had one from the top and one from the bottom. And then, let's go for number two, then.

Angela Nicholson: 43:25

Okay, right. This is a fun one. You have two days, completely free of work. What are you going to shoot? So this is just for you, for fun.

Tania Freimuth: 43:34

Well, actually, what I would really like to be able to do is hop on a plane, go to a city that I've not yet worked in in Morocco, and continue with that project and have two clear days to do that. And can I take a minder with me, please. Yeah, that's that's what I would just like to do.

Angela Nicholson: 43:54

Yeah. And are you photographing people or places or objects or landscapes. I won't continue to guess, what are you shooting?

Tania Freimuth: 44:01

It's situations, I suppose, circumstances. So again, there can be a character in or person in the shot and nine times out of 10. There is it's not street or shooting on the street. It's not a street look. So they can't be doing anything, I guess. It's sort of more kind of neoclassical type approach. So they're, they're still live. So they've got to embody, I guess, elements for the neoclassical style of painting. And that's, that's what I'm working on. At the moment. That's the project. I've got to finish.

Angela Nicholson: 44:35

Oh, look forward to seeing it.

Tania Freimuth: 44:36

Thank you.

Angela Nicholson: 44:37

Okay, so your last number, then please?

Tania Freimuth: 44:42

Eight.

Angela Nicholson: 44:42

As you were inspired at an early age, Carmen would like to know if you have any advice about how to inspire children to become interested in the world of photography. She's got a young son that she really wants to encourage into photography.

Tania Freimuth: 44:53

I think accessibility is really important, like accessibility to the tools, encouragement, but purposeful encouragement, if you see what I mean is, you know, if something's good, then find what is good about it. Yeah. Don't be sort of to carte blanche about it because any artist whatever they're shooting is their own critic has to be able to critique their work has to be able to understand where and how to develop. Books would always be a go to and trying to help that Ask them to evolve a style. What's their interest? You know, some people are in still life. Some people are into rock bands, some people are into streets, and then there's always animals. So I think, you know, finding the outlet for his photography that is authentic to him.

Angela Nicholson: 45:45

Good advice, I think, yeah, I like, I particularly like the bit about not being too sort of generic with your, with your praise. I've come across quite a few people who were obviously told as children, they're great singers, and you think you're really not, you know. You need to be positively encourage people in the right direction sometimes. And, you know, if they're not doing so well then help them understand why.

Tania Freimuth: 46:07

Yeah, because there's a lot of about photography that is technical, you know, using depth of field, for instance, or do you want to under expose, do you want to over expose and why? And if you're going to over expose what aesthetic you're trying to achieve by that every exposure? Would diffusing that shot, enhance over exposing it? And then looking at, you know, types of lighting? Do you want to be hard? Do you want to be soft? What's the feeling? I mean, Jane Doe that and this is where those photo journalists he did portraits are incredibly useful. I mean, Jane bone is a good one to look at. And just to explore how initially, you respond to that picture will give you the pathway to understanding what that person did to that picture to elicit that emotional response from you.

Angela Nicholson: 46:56

Yeah, good advice. Well, Tania, thank you so much for joining me stay on the podcast. It's been wonderful hearing from you.

Tania Freimuth: 47:03

Thank you. It's been an absolute joy.

Angela Nicholson: 47:05

Thank you. Bye

Tania Freimuth: 47:07

Bye.

Angela Nicholson: 47:09

Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You'll find links to Tanya's website and social media channels in the shownotes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.