Carolyn Mendelsohn: Amplifying Voices and Transforming Lives Through Photography

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 0:03

Really, 80% of my job is enabling people to feel happy in their skin and to forget that I'm taking the picture.

Angela Nicholson: 0:12

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I'm Angela Nicholson. I'm the founder of SheClicks which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talked to women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. This episode features Carolyn Mendelsohn, an artist and portrait photographer based in the UK. Her work is rooted in telling stories and amplifying the voices of those who are not always heard. Her passion is to be able to connect and communicate with people of all ages and backgrounds. She's recognised for her portraits, including her series and book being in between. She's also the founder of through our lens, a workshop, a mentoring programme that enables people to tell their stories through the medium of photography. In addition to all that Carolyn is an ambassador for Nick on Europe and the Royal photographic society. Hi, Carolyn, welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. It's great to see you. Lovely to see you,

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 1:06

Angela, I'm delighted to have been invited to talk today.

Angela Nicholson: 1:10

Oh, well, I was always going to invite you because, you know, every time we've met, we've always got so much to say to each other. So hopefully we managed to keep it on track.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 1:17

Yeah, hope so, fingers crossed.

Angela Nicholson: 1:20

Like quite a few photographers that I know, you didn't actually start out with photography as your career did you? You went through a career change. So how did that come about?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 1:28

So initially, I was actually working in theatre as an actor and director and making films and doing big arts events as well projections. I was always a creative, and I was always a storyteller. And then what happened is my my life changed. And I moved, I had three small children, it's as if they suddenly appeared. What happened really was my lifestyle changed, I could no longer do the kind of work and do the kind of travelling that I was doing before. And I had moved to a completely different place. And so I felt incredibly isolated, I wasn't sure who I was anymore. Because I'd always defined myself as being a creative and an artist. And suddenly, I was seen as a parent, which is all fine or not, I haven't got a problem with that. But it's a big part of me, my, my creative side, how I started with photography is interesting, because I never wants to be a photographer. And my whole family took photos all the time, I have lots of photographers in my family. And my husband thought it would be a great idea to buy me a camera. So he bought me a camera at a lovely, I think it was a nick on D 70. And I just ignored it. And I put it under my bed, because I thought well, I'm not a photographer, and I don't want to take photos. So this beautiful camera was lying on my bed for quite a long time. And then, and I was running around with babies and small children. And then one day, I thought I won't, I should pick it up. So I picked it up. And it was like I had this complete epiphany, Angela, it was like, hold on, I've been really ignoring photography. I've been thinking it's invasive. It's not for me, it's not my art form. But it felt really comfortable in my hands. And I realised that I could tell stories. In my own, I tend to say like in my own square metre, I didn't have to be running around. And I could use it as a tool to tell stories to be creative to find that part of me again. So I didn't intend even at that point. I wasn't intending on it being a career. But I absolutely got drawn in. I was so obsessed. So I was busy taking photographs playing. I joined Flickr, I was getting lots of responses. And it's a wonderful thing digital photography, because I just kept on learning new things. So that's the very start of my photography journey.

Angela Nicholson: 4:07

And what was it that initially made you think photography wasn't the thing for you? Was it the fact that you had so many relatives who were really into it? And you just kind of thought, Oh, well, that's their thing. It's not my thing, or was just something else to it.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 4:18

I think that was partly it. And the other thing was that I had always absolutely loved working in theatre and film and that was my thing. And I channelled myself from being you know, like a small child into that's what I wanted to do. I think with photography, I had my family or obsessively documenting our lives. Every moment of our lives, either there were four kids, and every moment was a camera would be in our face. And I never felt comfortable with it. So I think that was part of it. I saw it as a kind of invasive thing, not a beautiful, wonderful thing. And now obviously asleep. My parents have hundreds of albums. And I look through them. And I think well actually is interesting. And not only did they have hundreds of albums, my grandparents had hundreds of 1000s My great grandparents took photographs. I mean, they, they were, you know, almost right at the beginning of the history of photography. We have amazing records, photographic records that were taken by my my great grandparents, great uncle, you know, so So yeah, it's in my blood. But yeah, yeah, I didn't want it.

Angela Nicholson: 5:37

I think is a really interesting transition from film photography to digital photography, say, when you have a roll of film, you had 24, 36 exposures. And I don't know about you, but I cherished all those exposures. So I think, well, up until the point I learned about bracketing exposures, but you used every frame that you had, and like, when I had a photo album, I put all of those 36 pictures in the album, regardless of any kind of quality control whether they were good or bad. But with digital photography, because we can shoot so much. Yes, I do print a heck of a lot less, but a much more selective about it. And I'm more selective about sharing, which I think, you know, perhaps we've educated ourselves a little bit there,

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 6:17

I think so. I think it's really easy with a digital camera just to not look properly. And though I didn't use a stills camera, I did. Obviously I went on holiday, I took a little camera, I had 36 exposures, and so sometimes I will go back to film to slow myself down. And I think there's wonderful thing about digital in that you can make mistakes, but also, it stops people from really slowing down and looking at their work. And I think I was very aware of that, that you have a tool in your hands. And it's a tool that can be used to communicate to tell stories. So though we have hundreds of pictures, I like to think of myself as a considered photographer, guide, I look properly down my lens. And I think about the pictures I'm going to take.

Angela Nicholson: 7:13

How did you then move from being, you know, you accepted that perhaps photography had something for you as a hobbyist, but how did you then move to be a professional photographer?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 7:22

My journey is kind of surreal. When I think about it, I was like I was saying I was obsessed I'd be looking after the children, but also spending 10 hours a day photographing, learning about post processing. I got so much joy from it. And I still didn't ever intend on being professional. It was just a tool to me at that point, a beautiful tool that I could play with and learn from and create beautiful, lovely, pretty pictures with. And I remember getting a following on Flickr. And because I played with the pictures, I use lots of textures. I mean, it's nothing like the work I do now, apart from the fact there was always a kind of story behind it. And then there was I remember on Flickr, there was this advert, Channel Four wanted to make a programme with Flickr, looking for the next emerging digital photographers. And I've only really been taking photographs for under a year. And I thought oh, I may as well apply for that. And also, I, the other thing was, I could only use auto. I didn't really know how to use my camera. I knew how to frame and make beautiful work. But I had no idea how this tool works that I was using to do this. So it was just really a punt. And then I got through to the final 300. And then I went down to London, and there was an audition. And I remember I was terrified because there were producers were being filmed or I was hiding thinking they can see that I can't use my camera. And I was sitting next to like graduates and documentary photographers and fashion photographers and we were given different things to do. And then I think I got down in that it was like an audition, I guess because it was a reality, reality arts programme. But they were making the producers talk to me in that I had to put a little portfolio together. They really loved the work. And then I went home. And I got a phone call. Say you're in the final 12. And I was like, that was like shocking, but exciting because I was thinking well, that's great. I've got into the final 12 out of 3000. That's pretty good going. But I had to go back to London to kind of meet the producers and also had to have a psychological evaluation.

Angela Nicholson: 9:50

Oh, good grief.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 9:51

Because it was a reality. Yeah, no, it's mad, isn't it? So it was because it was a reality, it was a reality programme and it was a time when Big Brother was huge and Operatunity was on, and so they were thinking this could be massive. And we don't you know, obviously people have things they don't want the world to know. Then we need to know about them. But I passed that, luckily. And then I got a, I got a phone call, telling me I was I'd been selected. And I remembered producer, Tom McDonald who said, 'right, I've got great news, Carolyn, you've been we want you to be on the programme. You're in our final six' . And Angela, I was silent because I thought I was going to be sick. I felt I was horrified. I was hopefully horrified and totally unprepared. I'm a risk taker, I guess.

Angela Nicholson: 10:49

Yeah.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 10:49

And I step into things that I'm completely petrified about. So I thought, well, maybe I should just do it. But it was terrifying. That was my start. Yep. So we had to like go into studio and I took a, I met Germaine Greer. I had to take a portrait of her and I you know how to use lights. I could have used those before. But the thing I've always I think my strength. And I think that goes from those from right at the beginning to now is that I'm good with people. And that I have an eye. So I've always been able to compose and connect with people. So I just use that. But yeah, out of my comfort zone. And it was a really amazing experience. But it was totally terrifying. Yeah. And then, you know, went, went back and this was in 2007. They filmed that. And then it was out in 2008. And then, of course, it's all over the internet. And it's like that woman, that woman with her three kids because I was introduced as'Carolyn Mendelsohn, mother of three', I was so angry. It's like, hold on a second. So it was like, you know, 'she doesn't even hold her camera, right'. So there was all these kind of comments, but he was fine, because it actually taught me. You know, you, you take your picture and the way you take your picture. I still, I think I still look a little awkward when I hold my camera. So I don't think I think you do it in a way that's comfortable to you. Martin Parr was one of the judges. And so like there were the top contemporary photographers, Brett Rogers from the photographer's gallery. I thought it was going to be Hallmark Cards, in which case I would have been fine. And I think what it made me do was I thought, right, no one's ever going to be able to say that I don't know my camera. So I then went on another learning curve, to learn my camera inside out to kind of I realised that lenses were the thing that helped you create beautiful portraits. So I just, I poured back all my work at that time as well. I had been using textures and Photoshop, I thought I'm gonna go back to the beginning. And that's what I did. But I started to be invited to do commissions still not I, it was still way out of my comfort zone. I still didn't see myself as potentially a professional photographer, but because I had this exposure. And I was all still taking lots of work. And I was pushing myself in terms of my own craft, I started to get commissions, mainly kind of portraits and lifestyle at that point.

Angela Nicholson: 13:29

Yeah, but I think it's, you know, most people, you know, someone who's commissioning or looking for photographs, they're not photographers, and they're not going to look at it and think, Oh, well, she's quite clearly shot that F/5.6 rather than 2.8, or whatever. They just look, they just look at the picture and think, do I like it? Do I like this work? Do I not like this work. And if you're good at composition, it doesn't matter whether you've shot it on auto or aperture priority or manual does, it's, you know, you've got to get the creative side or the storytelling side, done first. And I actually know, I'm not going to name any names, but I know, one photo journalist who was used to put tape over his camera, so that so that, so the settings didn't change. You know, it just kept it all the same. And but he was great at composing an image.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 14:15

Absolutely. And it's learning how to use light as well. Because, you know, I know we always say photography, so I was always good at kind of looking at where the light was, and creating a story with my work. So even if I was, even if it's lifestyle shot, I'd be thinking I want to make a story. With this picture. I want to create a portrait that's really powerful. I really wanted to create work, even at an early stage that drew people in that told a story of that person and I think I I learned quite quickly really how to use manual and how to use and what lenses to get, and that just kind of pushed me further. But interestingly, I was you know, I was doing Doing all these commission's work. So I guess I was working professionally. I didn't feel comfortable with it there, Angela at that point.

Angela Nicholson: 15:10

So what was it that made you feel comfortable, was it's basically exposure therapy? You know, these people keep coming to me and asking me to do work, or was it? Was there something else was a pivotal moment where you suddenly understood everything or something?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 15:22

Well, I think I did understand it, but I think it was more that I wanted to do my own stuff. So I wanted to tell my own stories that I was like, you become you, you serve people as a photographer, and I do that in my commission, commercial work. Now you serve people, you serve the assignment, you serve the company or the individual. But I think at that point, because I had been, you know, going back to my life in theatre and film, I had been creating stories that were my own or directing, and kind of looking at how I wanted something to be with the creative control. And I think with commissions, often you're like, in at the deep ends, have to establish relationships with people really quickly. I love it when I'm there. You know, I do love it when I'm actually taking those portraits. But but it was like I found, I found it very stressful. And people are always surprised. And I still do actually, I still do find assignments really full of kind of stress, because I'm a perfectionist, I want them to be brilliant. And I want to, so I kind of overthink them. And I think what happened was so that, let's let's move on now, you know, few years, I was doing lots of lifestyle, I was doing families, I was also documenting my family's life in the same way that my parents documented our lives, but kind of differently, I guess, more artistically. So I have a whole series called The Family document where people will know if they know my work, they've probably followed my children from zero to like 1819. And that's how I found my craft really. And I think I remember it was an autumn, I think my daughter Poppy must have been about seven. And I was just about off to do an autumn shoot in the woods, as she was sitting there with her, her book on her lap, and a bookmark and the light on her face was extraordinary and beautiful. And I had my camera on me and I remember thinking, got to take a picture and had like 135 lens. And I took a picture I said Poppy, she looked at me and I took her picture. The light was so beautiful, though. And then I rushed off to do this kind of autumn shoot in the woods with a family. And I remember at that point, so that would have been 2012 Maybe. So I'd been going for quite a while I remember thinking, I don't know whether I want to do this anymore. I have lost the joy. That's the thing we have. It's so joyful when you start isn't it and it's so easy to kind of lose that joy, I think. And so I'd lost the joyfulness of photography. And I remember thinking with the photograph that I took of poppy, that I would send it out into the universe, I'd send it out there because I love that picture. And if something came back, then maybe I should continue doing it. And so I sent I remember applying to professional photographer of the year, and I sent that off in the lifestyle section. And then one I'd have was, I'm very emotional. So I sobbed, cried because I couldn't quite believe it. And then I remember thinking, Oh, maybe I should be doing this. Maybe I should. And I remembered another thing. My husband John said to me, because I used to always change always stopped doing things and find something new to do. Because I needed change. I needed challenges. I needed excitement. And I remember him saying to me, so now that you've proven you can you can take portraits, and you're a great photographer, are you going to stop? And I looked at him, and I went, how dare you say when, of course I'm not sick. So it kind of really propelled me and and really, I then started doing a lot more personal work. And I think that's what brought me the joy back. It was the mixing personal projects where I could use my camera as a tool to explore explore the world I was living in with the commercial work, and then it came back really.

Angela Nicholson: 19:47

So basically your personal work gives you that sense of purpose that you need to continue with photography.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 19:52

Yeah, really does it it gives me a purpose. Absolutely. Yeah. And what sort of clients do you have now for your commercial work? I mean, Do you do still photograph other families? Or, you know, do you work more for companies and organisations. So I think I'm quite fortunate now in that I do work that has meaning to me. So I don't tend to do families anymore. I do individual portrait commissions. I also am free law on a freelance photo journalists for Bloomberg News. So I get all sorts of exciting opportunities with them. I do some, you know, haven't for a while, but I do some fashion work. And also, because of my personal projects, I guess we may well talk about in a little while, that work became very well known. And I have, I'm getting work based on my personal work. So almost feels like some artists and residents for this organisation, doing the kind of work that I was doing in my personal work, which is wonderful. And then I also get art Commission's to create new bodies of work. So it's a real mixture. And the other thing, the other kind of work I really do enjoy, commission wise is documenting artists. So taking portraits of artists documenting their work. I love doing that, because I just go and visit them. I, we have lots of chats. And it's almost like I feel very comfortable with that. I we find the beautiful light, I follow their process, I take those portraits, and that makes me happy. So those kinds of commissions are very joyful.

Angela Nicholson: 21:36

So if a client comes to you, do you have lots of questions for them? Or that they've already connected with your photography, and they kind of want you to go with it. So this is a We'd like some photographs of this person or this this event? And they leave it to you? Or do you have lots of questions for them to sort of nail down exactly what they want?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 21:55

I always have lots of questions. I don't I don't tend to do events. So I would say I'm definitely more of a specialist portrait photographer. But because I'm wanting to make sure that I create the best work for them. So you know, for myself as a photographer, I want to know about the assignment they're giving me. And sometimes it can be way out of my comfort zone. And I'll even try to put them off, which I've done before. I said, Oh, no, I'm too busy. I can't do that. And I go, okay, and then they'll come back. And that's usually because they there's like a celebrity or a famous person, I'm thinking, Oh, I don't know, I don't feel comfortable. And then they change the time. So I can do it. And then I think oh, okay, rights, you know, get over yourself, Carolyn, get over yourself. And I think I so but I always have Sophie as a private a private as a condition, then I always have a consultation with that person. So I either on Zoom, or in real life, I want to find out all about them. I want to find out about what they would love what their what their vision is, and then I can share what my vision might be. And because I don't you know, I don't want to just go in and do my stuff. I want to know exactly who they are and exactly what they love and exactly how we can work together for the best results. So I always do that. And I think with a more commercial assignments, I still do it actually, I need to know the kind of location I need to know who's involved. I need to know if it's an editorial, for example, I need to know, the kind of spreads if it's like a story spread, if they want words to be printed on it. So I kind of need to know all those details with so I kind of always do my research. Yeah, you are a bit of a planner than I am, which is really bizarre because I'm quite chaotic as a human being. It's not like chaotic, because that's that's the, you know, putting myself down a bit. But I'm, I'm not a neat and tidy person. I attract things, I collect things. But I think when it comes to kind of creating work, then I feel comfortable. I need to make sure that I have everything planned. And if I have everything planned, then I can kind of feel comfortable. I can chuck that plan away and I can fly. If that makes sense. So make sense to you.

Angela Nicholson: 24:31

Yeah, it does. It's, I mean, you're it's a serious business, isn't it? You know, it could be fun. But actually you want to portray someone's story. So you need to understand their story first before you can do that. But you know, if you just kind of rocked up and didn't know anything about them just kind of like oh well this place will do. You're not going to get the result that either of you want.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 24:50

Yeah, you're not and it's interesting the sun sunk commissions. I have no idea what the location is going to be like. So for example, I was commissioned by the Royal photo Graphic society in the Imperial War Museum to create portraits of Holocaust survivors called, it was a piece of work called generations. And there that very elderly and amazing people that I met take their portraits that said something about who they were and their lives and their amazing stories and their generations after them. And so, I remember Hannukah di was one of one of the women I took pictures of, I talked her on the phone, I went to where she lived, which is in the Dales and I bought all my equipment with me, but the most important thing was for me to kind of get to know her a bit. And so I remember taking all these pictures, and then I also took my lighting equipment with me and I did stuff outside. We talked about what she might wear, I remember on the phone, I said, What what are you going to wear, you know, we need something that works. And she chose her favourite dress. And then I, I'm always thinking on my feet, because I wanted, I did four portraits for different people. And I wanted something to connect those portraits together. They're up in the Imperial War Museum at the moment. So I remember thinking if there can be an item from their early years, like a photograph or something that's important to them at them that it that reflects each photograph that I take, then that work. But I remember that the end portrait I took with her Nicole's actually, inside with natural light, were really comfortable. And I couldn't really plan that I had to kind of think on my feet and I had to go with, I had to trust that I have the skills to put her at her ease, take a picture that tells her story, but also connects her with the audience. So it's a real mixture, how I work when we think about it,

Angela Nicholson: 26:59

I hadn't actually realised that that was a commissioned work. And I think that shows how well it fits within your personal work. Because it just, you know, it's definitely your photography.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 27:09

It was an amazing opportunity. It was there was myself and I think 12 other photographers and some world famous photographers were selected to do this piece of work. And we were actually invited to create something that really was how we saw that person. So using our own personal style, really, so that I think that was part of it. I think a lot of my work does feel like my work, even if it's a kind of assignment because I bring myself and my, the way I communicate my techniques and the kind of lenses I use and the light that I like, to all the projects really.

Angela Nicholson: 27:50

And with your personal work. I mean, where does the inspiration come from, for that?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 27:54

I think initially going right back to the beginning, I want to find out about stuff. So I remember I got my 85 1.4 lens a couple of years into my photography journey. Honestly, what a beautiful lens and that I discovered how you could do that depth of field. And it was such a beautiful, wonderful portrait lens. And so I had this little personal project, which was me stopping everyone I knew even strangers to take a picture of their face. So it was like, number one that was kind of technical, but also because I was obsessed with faces. And then, you know, moving on to other personal work, I was making a film for a festival in Hexham actually, so I was invited to meet the film that was going to be projected in the Abbey. So even though I was, you know really well into my photography journey are still doing a bit of the work I used to do. And whilst I was there, I saw all these independent traders in Hexham, and I remember thinking, I want to take their pictures, you know, there was the butcher, there was a clock mender, there was a luthier there was there was a jewellery maker. And there was this the shoe bar man. And that was a personal project. And I just remember thinking about those Victorian pictures of shopkeepers. So I, I went in and kind of throw these people I said, I'd love to take your portraits and I had a little wobbly light on the stand a flat actually through an umbrella I arranged in to kind of spend an hour with them. And so that work was really well received. It was personal work and then they invited the kind of council invited me back the year after to continue and then exhibited it. So you know projects like bigger projects like Being Inbetween. That piece of work is a personal project, which is about girls aged between 10 to 12. And it is about taking their porch Krait in a way that amplifies them, gives them agency. So I wanted them to choose what clothes to wear. And then I interview them about their lives, I wanted them that work to almost be like it could be to be lit and away that it looked like an old master. It could be it could be in an art gallery. So that was my kind of in my head. But the reason I did that wasn't because I thought, oh, that will be interesting. It was because I was so connected to that age myself. I had really strong memories of being 10, 11 and 12. And how uncomfortable I felt, and are suddenly I felt so self conscious after being quite free spirited, how I felt, I wasn't pretty how I felt things that people said to me were true. And all those kind of big existential thoughts I had in my head that I felt I couldn't talk to anyone about, which happens when you're that not to everyone, but it happened to me. And I just thought, actually, why is it that things that people say to you at that age, become how you see yourself? Because it's not a great thing. And then I thought I want to kind of explore this age and actually celebrate it. It's people see it as an awkward age. So I'd have oh, yes, it's such an awkward stage. And I thought, no, it's a really amazing transient part of life. So that body of work that took me six years to complete in my own time, was kind of really about myself. It was I remember somebody saying to me, somebody said, Why you just didn't go for and it really wound me up. I said, because I was a girl. And it's, it's about me, and then somebody else who was an academic went, Carolyn, it's autoethnographic. So I've learned these big words that I can use. But that work was fundamental in terms of my career development. And I think I suddenly was driven to just continuing with it, and people really loved it. And it was exhibited at quite an early age stage. I showed a gallery some of the work that we love it, can you exhibit the work and I'd only taken for export rate. So I thought, all right, so think about eight months later, they showed the work and it was harping back to my theatre days, I use sound and I created a soundscape. And then that work was seen and shared, and it was in on Buzzfeed, or it's in. It was on Huffington Post, and I just continued it and it was exhibited in other places. But then the major turning point for me as a photographic artist was when I entered it for the Royal Photographic Society International print exhibition. And my picture of Alice won the gold, which was a major thing for me. Again, I sobbed. But this time, I sobbed really like somebody had died with my poor kids at home when I was growing up, wandered off on this huge competition. But what it meant was, was that who was that that work was then seen in the Sunday Times, it was taken seriously suddenly, by curators and art galleries and the contemporary photography world. So that was like the start of doing work that really resonated with myself, as well as with other people.

Angela Nicholson: 33:31

You said that, you know, it started to be taken seriously, by others, did it change in your mind, too? Did you start to see it more seriously or it was always serious, and then you would just started to get recognition for it?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 33:42

Like I was always serious about it. I kind of went into it, really wanting to create powerful work. I didn't expect people to love that work. It's always a bit of a risk when you share a personal word. But I really, really wanted to explore this. And I wanted it wasn't though I say it was kind of based on my memory. It was about me. It was actually about giving those young people, those girls, a space and a platform. And every time it was seen, I would cheer because I would think they're being seen. They're being listened to people aren't ignoring them. They aren't being marginalised. And so I always took it seriously, I was just so surprised that the world started taking it seriously as well. Because I think I'm always expecting people to say oh, no, you know, yeah, but I didn't really let any of those voices stop me because I felt it and then then I started to get kind of mentors from the photography world who would say keep it going, you know people galleries and curators and and sounds really weird because because if you think about it, I could have kind of stopped it and really early stage but I just kept it going and it's hard to keep project like not going over a long period of time, because there are points where you lose the weight. I lost the plot. And I think Why, yes, Inez.

Angela Nicholson: 35:07

But those girls, you know, you interviewed them and wrote or recorded them, some of the things they said, you know, about their aspirations, or their concerns were really interesting. And they, you know, they resonated probably with about 50% of the population, you know, and they are able to connect, but also, you know, some of the very, very insightful.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 35:26

Yes, amazing, I really believe if you give people the space, and he asks him questions, I'd be given the space to answer them, then everyone is surprising. And you know, it's interesting for 50% of the population, actually, it was all generations, all genders who I didn't expect this, who related to that work in some way, because they saw themselves in it, or they saw their children or grandchildren in it, or they saw their younger selves. And it was really fascinating to do that. And, you know, that project itself, obviously, I've done lots of other things, but that project itself Lent, then I became I, I got commissioned to do very similar work I, I'm artists in residence for eight for age of wonder at the moment, this is a huge help study. And I'm working with 12 to 14 year olds, so it's all on my Instagram, I'm taking it in very similar way, taking their their portraits and interviewing them and asking them about their hopes and fears. And this is part of huge international, internationally recognised health research project, obviously, I'm only a tiny bit of it, but I give the face to the work that the scientists are doing. But what a joy, actually. Yeah, absolutely.

Angela Nicholson: 36:43

I mean, what a fantastic opportunity for them, and you. But would you be tempted to go back and photograph the girls from Being Inbetween, you know, when they're five years older, or, or 10 years older or anything?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 36:56

I think what was really, what, it's, it's really interesting that because I think we all kind of want to know what the end of the story is, though. But that, for me, the point of that piece of work was that particular time. And so I, I won't say I'll never go back. But there are a real spread of ages those girls. Yeah, I think it would be, it would be really hard to administer. But what I would really love is, if one of those girls becomes a photographer, and then decides to take it on, that will just feel quite poetic.

Angela Nicholson: 37:29

But there might be something else that comes from that, that, you know, the fact that you listened to them, and it was written down somewhere what they actually said, you know, perhaps they had concerns about the environment or something like that. And, you know, they might become an environmental scientist or something, because somebody actually listened to their concerns and, and agreed that it was something we should be worried about. It could be have all sorts of repercussions, I guess.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 37:51

I think so. But also, you know, a lot. They're all in the book, there is a book of that work. Yeah, it's been exhibited. And I think it's just giving them a space to express those things. And it did change some of their lives. It literally changed their trajectory from being self conscious and worried, feeling very proud and empowered. So that is a great feeling, really.

Angela Nicholson: 38:15

That kind of brings me nicely on to my next question, which was, what impact has being a Nikon ambassador had on you?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 38:22

I couldn't believe it? Actually, Angela was like, I couldn't believe it. So if when they say, Carolyn, I've got so I've always been I've always used a Nikonn. And they kind of invited me to be they were I was a friend of theirs. They said, 'you're our friend, we would you like to talk at photo London'. And that was huge. Photo London, I usually can't even afford to go, and here I am talking about and they just wanted me to talk about my work and stories. And that was amazing. And so I would have this great relationship with them where they would invite me to do talks and presentations. And then and then they said,'Oh, would you like to be creator'? And I was like, 'Oh, okay'. And then after four months, they said, 'actually, we've been talking', I thought I'd get told off because I just started a talk and I'm very open when I talk and I thought oh, I probably said the wrong thing. And they probably you know, they said 'we'd like to chat to you'. And they're probably gonna say'Carolyn, really? I'm not sure you can be a creator anymore'. And they said 'actually, we've been talking to the Europe team and we really love what you do. We love your work. We love the way you communicate and your enthusiams and the quality of your photography. Would you like to be an ambassador?' I could've, this was done on Zoom, I could have like fallen I literally almost fell off my chair. And absolutely love that. I love that brands. I love the team Nikon I love the Nikon family. So I think, you know, it's interesting. It feels a great fit for as long as it fair, it feels wonderful. I work in collaboration with them. I'm proud of it. But also, it means that I can really use the being a Nikon ambassador to amplify other people's voices, because that's what my work is about. It's always about amplifying the voices and stories of other people. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing, though. Can you believe that? Angela?

Angela Nicholson: 40:28

I can!

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 40:29

because I couldn't. Whilst I'm talking about that, people often say to me, because we work so independently, freelancers, self employed people, we work by ourselves for a whole lot of the time. So it's very hard to see the impact that one's work has. And I sometimes forget that people have any idea of who I am. So when people go, Oh, you're Carolyn Mendelsohn. I'm going? Yeah, yeah. And, and so being a nickel ambassador was always surprising to me, because I only see myself sitting by myself sweating over my laptop, worrying about, have I got the right equipment. Did I take powerful pictures? What's the next assignment? So it's really nice to step back and think, overnight, all that hard work has paid off? Yeah, you know, it's we kind of working together all the stuff about me, not being afraid to step into areas that feel bigger than me has worked for me.

Angela Nicholson: 41:30

Yes, taking those bold moves. Yeah, it also is a really nice endorsement of your photography.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 41:35

Oh, it's so lovely. And, you know, what I really love is that they are appreciative of my kind of portraiture, the fact that I'm not a big news reporter. And you know, I know I do work for Bloomberg, it's very specifically portraits, but that they really liked the kind of work I do, because obviously, we're used to seeing some amazing landscape and wildlife photographers there are phenomenal. So it's really nice that Nikon embraces all sorts of different genres. I think that's wonderful.

Angela Nicholson: 42:06

Yeah, it is great. So we've come to the section called Six from SheClicks, and I have got 10 questions from SheClickers and I would like you to answer six of them, please. So if you could give me a number from one to 10?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 42:18

Three, please.

Angela Nicholson: 42:19

Three. Okay. Right. It's about your project being in between was very successful and brought you lots of recognition, as we've already mentioned, but has it been difficult to move on from that? And do you feel more pressure to succeed because of it? That question is from Marie-Ange.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 42:33

Oh no, it hasn't been difficult to move on at all, actually. Yeah, one, I, or one - obviously, I'm Royal today. I became known for that piece of work. But but it hasn't stopped me from developing new projects. And obviously, people maybe see that and don't see the other work that I'm doing. So I'm I've done some really exciting art commissions up, I'm working on a very long form project at the moment, it's take me a couple of years to start to happen, which I can't really talk about it, what it did give me is the knowledge that I can do something over a long period of time. And that I shouldn't worry what other people think about it, and then it moves me on to different areas. But that's a good question. Because, you know, I think people will always say, what's he doing? What projects you're working on? Yeah, but I'm doing lots of work and do lots of projects, but I can't always talk about them until they're half done.

Angela Nicholson: 43:38

I look forward to finding out Okay, so can we have another question then please? That was number three.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 43:42

Could I have number seven, please?

Angela Nicholson: 43:44

Number seven. OK, do you prefer to shoot in the studio where you have full control over everything? Or outdoors where things can be a bit more variable that's from Rebecca,

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 43:53

Rebecca, believe it or not, I love the outdoors is so funny. People see me as this kind of studio photographer because of that, I guess again, going back because of the kind of success of being in between people see me as that studio photographer. I always I always started on location. I love location. I love natural light. And I love the variety. And then I've just done this piece called Hardy and free which was commissioned for the Bronte parsonage museum. And that was women in landscape. What a joy I did in I thought, well, I could bring all my lights with me, but actually, let's just use what is there. And so it's joyful for me to be in amazing landscapes and environments and take portraits within that tell those women's stories, but also be more playful. I think that was a great opportunity for me not to over plan, but to respond creatively and artistically. So yeah, so I actually love outside. I love location work. Okay,

Angela Nicholson: 44:58

I can have another number then please?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 44:59

Could I have number one?

Angela Nicholson: 45:01

Number one, okay, when you try to capture the authenticity of a person, and you spoke about this earlier, how do you make them relaxed, so you can create an image that you know they're comfortable with, and it's got their personality in it.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 45:13

So I think that's a brilliant question, because I think we probably can all relate to that feeling of being really uncomfortable in front of a camera, very few people feel very comfortable in front of the camera. So I'm very aware of that. What I tell people, If I feel they're particularly worried is, I just want them to enjoy the experience, I'll say, Let's enjoy the experience. Trust me, I've got the camera, don't worry about whether you're photogenic or not. Let's enjoy this adventure together, let's enjoy this time together, I want to find out about them. So really, 80% of my job is enabling people to feel happy in their skin. And to forget that I'm taking the picture. And I sometimes do little mini directions, I might ask them to move their head a little I involved them in the process, I look at it as a collaborative collaboration, when I'm taking that picture. We're working together, but I want them not to worry about how they are looking, because that's my job as the photographer, right?

Angela Nicholson: 46:20

And actually, you're the best person to assess it on you from that position, because they only ever see a mirror reflection of themselves. Do you use things like eye detection, or

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 46:27

Yeah, that's right. set the electronic shutter? I used to use spot focus. And it's only recently that I've started to use, or that I've trusted eye detection, but I'm still composing that portrait with them. And interestingly, I've very recently had a really exciting assignment. And the person who was feeling very uncomfortable about how they're represented photographically, because they're always being photographed, and then never in control of it. So I was working collaboratively with them. So I did use eye detection. And but I'm quite happy to use eye detection or or spot focus, but also, I put my new cameras, I can make the shutter really well, there isn't a shutter. Is there? No, there is a shutter? You know what I mean? Don't you- the sound?

Angela Nicholson: 47:20

It's an electronic one. Yes. Yes. It's not mechanical.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 47:24

Electronic shutter! Yeah. So it's, yeah, exactly. Thank you, you can kind of fill people in on the technical side. I put it on. So it was very quiet. I could hear it, but she couldn't. And she said, I love the fight. I don't know whether you've taken a picture or not. And that was interesting for me, because I love a good old shutter sound personally. But it was really eye opening to the subject. I was taking a picture of say, actually, she loved that she didn't know.

Angela Nicholson: 47:52

Yeah, I could see that being quite an advantage. It just occurred to me that actually, sometimes when you take a shot, and there's a click of a mirror in a shutter going, then some people say 'Oh, I think my eyes were shut'. And you can't then take the next couple of frames, because they're busy saying 'I think my eyes were shut'. So you know, if they don't know they're not going to say that. So just struck me.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 48:10

Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 48:10

Okay. Would you like to pick another number?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 48:12

I would like to pick nine.

Angela Nicholson: 48:14

Number nine. Okay, how do your photo projects germinate from ideas to fruition? Are you quick to act? Or does it take time for the idea to mature? And that question is from Liz.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 48:24

I think there are two ways of thinking about it. So sometimes it's very quick, like when I was doing keepers, which was the tradespeople, that was a very simple idea, a bigger project like being in between. Interestingly, it was almost fully formed in my head, which is kind of bizarre, isn't it? I could I almost like could see that work. And it was almost meant to happen. And it was very simple. It was like girls wearing clothes of their choice being asked questions about their lives, having their portrait with the same backdrop. Having the same the instructor I wanted them to be looking into the camera because I wanted to turn that whole thing about being the subject of a picture on its head that they look at us. And I wanted to use the same batch backdrop because I took it over a number of years. So that was very simple in some ways, even though the the kind of stories and everything are quite multi layered. So another project I'm working on at the moment, I've been spending a couple of years I'm doing lots of research. I know what I want to do, but it involves lots it involves looking at archives, it involves creating a new studio. It involves lots of different levels and layers to it. So that one is kind of incubating and it has incubated over a long period of time whilst whilst I'm working on getting partners for it. So it's a mixture sometimes instantly. Sometimes an idea is almost fully formed. And then Other times, I'm working quite a long time and germinating that idea. I love that word germinating or incubating, it's good.

Angela Nicholson: 50:07

Good answer, so it really depends. So, can I have your fifth number, please?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 50:13

Number eight.

Angela Nicholson: 50:14

Number eight, how do you split your time between commercial work and personal projects, that's another from Rebecca,

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 50:20

What I do now, I'm in a really fortunate position of feeling like a lot of my commercial work is personal work. So it's almost like I feel like my artists and residents work even though that is going to be used is a commission feels very personal. My art commission Hardy and free, felt like me being an artist, which it was really, I'm also getting grant funding for some project work. So I, the way I get income is multi layered. So sometimes it is a mixture. But at the moment, I did a big participation project called through our lens, which you might remember because we talked about the actor, which was enabling young people to tell their own story through photography. And that ended up getting lots of funding. So sometimes I will, I don't want to just do kind of the commercial stuff. And if I do commercial work, as I was saying, it's really important to me that it resonates. And it tells stories and the way that I do as an independent artist. So I'd say it's half half, but it kind of feels like I'm doing all weirdly feels like I'm doing lots of personal work, but it's actually not. It's just the work that people like is the work that I do for personal projects. So therefore I start to get commissioned to do it.

Angela Nicholson: 51:40

Yeah. What a great position to be in though because I mean, they always say, say, if you're a wedding photographer, and you want to shoot black and white weddings, don't put any colour stuff on your, your website, because people will come to it, you end up shooting stuff you don't want. And you've put your personal work out there, and people have come to you for something similar. So fantastic.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 51:56

Yeah, the pandemic really helped me kind of real focusing on what brought me joy, what I wanted to do. And I think things changed dramatically for me, because I started to really put lots of energy into work that was meaningful to me. And then sharing that work, as you were saying, meant that people started to just ask for the work that I had developed myself. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 52:20

Yeah, I think as terrible as the pandemic was, it didn't make a lot of us sort of sit down and think about what we, you know, a lot of us weren't doing a great deal of work and what we did want to do when when we came through it and what was going to be the next step. So yeah, it was kind of quite an important phase to go through, although it was pretty traumatic at the time. Okay, so your your final number, please?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 52:42

Oh, I think I'm gonna go for number two.

Angela Nicholson: 52:44

Okay. What do you think of the AI revolution? This is from Carmen?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 52:49

Oh, oh, Carmen AI? Well, you know, AI has actually been around for a long time, hasn't it? So in a small way, but what's happened is, it's moving so quickly. And I see people using AI and talking about themselves as creators. Whereas often, I think people will say a few prompts, and then then AI, that Midjourney or whatever, will create an amazing picture. And they'll claim to be the creators of that image. But actually, it worries me that many people's work has been scraped off the internet by certain AI companies. It does worry me massively. I also find there's a sort of 1980 science fiction feel to a lot of AI pictures that I see, which feels quite weird. And I think that if you're a documentary photographer, if you're a wedding photographer, if you're a portrait photographer, then you're okay, because you're it's about real people. We're going to have to embrace it. But I think there needs to be some way of managing it because it's moving so quickly. I had actually come I just share this I had a nightmare. This talent, this will tell you how much I think about it. I woke up one morning, and then I went back to sleep and then I dreamt that I woke up and then this this man and all these other people walked into my bedroom and they were AI people. And that for like, wanting to take of my camera wanting to take out they were like zombies AI zombies. There's no soul behind them. that terrified me, obviously, it's on my mind.

Angela Nicholson: 54:30

Clearly! Good grief. Yes, obviously, we've stirred up something there.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 54:34

You have.

Angela Nicholson: 54:35

That is worrying. AI is incredibly useful when it's applied to autofocus systems, but it's the other side of it, like you say it does cause a few worries. And I think we don't really know where it's gonna go or how useful or not it's gonna be at the moment. Is it very much a discovery phase, isn't it?

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 54:51

I think so. And there's, there's an excitement about it, which I understand. Absolutely. I just think it's moved so quickly, hasn't it? So maybe that that concerns me, the way it's moving so quickly becomes out of our control. Yeah. But obviously photography has changed dramatically from the moment the first camera was made. So I think we just need to be mindful and kind of hopeful that we can work with it rather than against it.

Angela Nicholson: 55:20

Yeah. Well, Carolyn has been absolutely wonderful as always, to chat with you. Thank you so much for joining me on today's podcast.

Carolyn Mendelsohn: 55:27

Thank you so much for listening, everybody, and thanks for the brilliant questions as well been really lovely way to spend time.

Angela Nicholson: 55:35

Oh, thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of the SheClicks women in photography podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You will find links to Carolyn's website and social media channels in the show notes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.