Lindsay Adler: Creative Collaboration is Key to Commercial Success

Lindsay Adler: 0:05

If you have beautiful images, but you don't have the connections, it does feel like screaming into the void because you're like, 'Isn't my work good enough?'. But guess what, there are so many people with good work. And so a lot of those ins have to do with the people that make those introductions and that build you into the web of what exists in your city or community.

Angela Nicholson: 0:24

Welcome to the SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast, I'm Angela Nicholson and I'm the founder of SheClicks which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts, I talked to women in the photographic industry to

Lindsay Adler: 0:30

It was nice because I actually hadn't done hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now. In this episode, I'm speaking with any sort of big conference in the UK in a while. And so I Lindsay Adler, an award winning photographer, director and educator who specialises in beauty and fashion photography. She's based in New York, but has travelled the world shooting for high end brands and publications. Lindsay is a Canon didn't know, you know, shows are coming and going and you never USA Explorer of Light and in 2020, she became the first woman to win Rangefinder magazine's Icon of the Year award. Hi, Lindsay, thanks so much for joining me today on our podcast. My pleasure.

Angela Nicholson: 1:08

Thank you. We actually met very, very briefly know about the livelihood of them. And it was, I mean, it was at the Photography Show in 2019, and it looked like you were having an absolute blast there. But I know that your talk on the Super stage was packed to the rafters. That's really good. Yeah, it's a really fun exciting and packed. And just, I had a great time. show. I love going. Now, your introduction to photography is really interesting, because I hear from a lot of photographers who were inspired by their dad to get into photography. So it's really refreshing to read that it was actually your your mum and your grandmother that got you into photography.

Lindsay Adler: 1:54

Yeah. So I actually even though I live in New York City and have a very Metropolitan Life, I grew up on a farm in upstate New York to be clear, I didn't really do any of the farm work. So don't tell me overstate it. But my mom and my grandma always did photography when I was growing up as a hobby. And they kind of would treat it almost as like scavenger hunts. They would, you know, be wandering around and taking pictures of flowers and mushrooms and animals. And so one of my earliest memories of my mom, my grandma, and I was everyone taking pictures. So it kind of immediately put it in a place of like, 'oh, this is what the women in our family do this we spend time taking photos together'.

Angela Nicholson: 2:35

Oh, that's really nice. And how did you gravitate then from, you know, flowers and mushrooms, to fashion photography and beauty photography.

Lindsay Adler: 2:44

So I did actually for a while, kind of look at it as saying, okay, if I want to do this professionally, which by the way, I decided I wanted to do it professionally, at age 12. By 15, I actually formally did my business paperwork. So I officially have had a business since I was 15. And, you know, when I was looking at it was like, 'okay, how can I make a living at this', and I love my hometown. I grew up in upstate New York, which, if you're not from the US, when you hear upstate New York, you think everything in New York is high rises, but it was actually a 300 acre farm, like really rural area. And I was trying to figure out what could I do if I stayed here to make a living at photography. So I started with high school senior portraits and weddings and engagement sessions and babies and families. And I, I liked it. And I've always loved photography. But when I went to college, I took a class that was basically in the history of fashion, photography was an elective, and the teacher I had was really passionate about it. And I remember seeing the photos going, 'I didn't even really realise that this existed'. And now I realised this is what I want to do. Because how at the time I was picturing a lot of portraiture was someone stand there and smile, right. But when I looked at fashion photography, there was storytelling and style and drama and fantasy. And that looks like a lot more fun to me.

Angela Nicholson: 4:12

Yeah, I think you're probably right. It's more exciting and dramatic, and you're in control of everything, aren't you?

Lindsay Adler: 4:19

Yeah, I think that also reflects that part of my personality of enjoying being a control freak. And just, just to be honest on that part.

Angela Nicholson: 4:26

And why not?

Lindsay Adler: 4:27

Exactly.

Angela Nicholson: 4:29

To know what you wanted to do at age 13, that's pretty remarkable. What was it about photography that really sucked you in?

Lindsay Adler: 4:36

I think it's a couple of things. You know, photography itself, was something that, at least in my, you know, 12, 13, 14 years old, I was really good at. And so I was receiving a lot of positive reinforcement. And when you're a kid, that means so much to your personal identity. It was one of the first things I tried that I really excelled at, you know, definitely wasn't good at sports, for example, and I didn't really excel at other art forms, I was okay. But then went into photography, I had all these people, all these adults around me, telling me how good I was and how I should keep going. And so I think it just instantly, you know, I associated it with success and feeling good. But the the other part of it was, it also is a little bit of magic. Because you can see something and capture it like that. I don't care how many how long, you've been a photographer, I really do think it's magic. And then once I started doing fashion photography, the idea that you can have something in your head, completely made up and bring it to life is another form of that. And especially if you don't know how to draw or paint or anything like that, it's it's bringing something from the ether, and making it concrete.

Angela Nicholson: 5:48

Uh, did you initially shoot film? Or did you go straight into digital photography,

Lindsay Adler: 5:52

I did initially shoot film. So my first couple of weddings were on film, like first couple of high school senior portraits were on film. But I remember I think my first digital camera I think was six megapixels. And it was like the, you know, the first Canon DSLRs. And it was, it was nice, because I was already making a little bit of money from photography. And so I would do, you know, some portraits was film, and I would sell like it's a little photos to calendars and things like that. So it was nice, because a lot of my early camera gear, I was able to actually by myself, which is another huge milestone for a kid, like you put your work into it. And so this becomes a symbol that you're holding in your hand, don't get me wrong, I would definitely get like a like a lens. That would be my year long present from my parents, it would be like a birthday present holiday present, like it's here's the lens you get for the year. Yeah, so I think that like photography just became a really important symbol. And in so many different ways, like spending time with family positive reinforcement, symbol of hard work symbol of becoming an adult finding something that you're good at all of those things.

Angela Nicholson: 7:02

I think that, not so much the need, but the desire or the appreciation of positive information is actually stays with you, doesn't it? Because you know, it's really important as a kid, it's very formative. But actually, it's nice to sort of shore up your confidence and your security to get those those messages every now and again. Like yeah, that's great. You're doing really, really well.

Lindsay Adler: 7:23

Well, this is why people have social media, right? It's constant, you know, likes and comments and whatnot. But I also think, you know, for me when you get into your late teens, or even early teens, but late teens and going into your 20s, and a lot of bout yourself is up in the air, and you don't know who you are, and you're evolving. But when you have something that is a constant, it is really feels like home. And so photography has much more than than just an artistic place for me like it has been home for me for more than half of my life.

Angela Nicholson: 7:57

Wow. That's lovely. And were there any times, you knew started out at 13, you registered your business at 15, when you say got to about 20, was there any point when you suddenly thought, what the heck am I doing? Have I made a mistake? Did you ever doubt yourself? Or have you been sort of consistent in knowing that you were doing the right thing?

Lindsay Adler: 8:15

I am very lucky because those are the same people might my mother and my father, for example, they never once asked me to consider doing something else. They told me from an early age that whatever I chose, as long as I poured my heart into it, I would be successful. So even when there were you know, I mean, everybody struggles at any point in their career, honestly. But anytime that there was a struggle, it was just a bump in the road, and I would keep working and get to the next, you know, to the next level of it. So if I'm honest, there was never a point where I considered doing something else. The only challenges have ever been if I hadn't diversified enough and one income stream dried up. So for example, you know, if I only did high school seniors, and that was in the summer, and then the rest of the year going, okay, when I hit need money, and I didn't, you know, I didn't promote my business enough and you know, for weddings or portraits. So that was one of the things that I learned really early on by having a business is that you want to have a style, you want to have a specialty, but you do need to have enough diversity to be able to pivot when necessary.

Angela Nicholson: 9:29

Yeah, yeah. It's always good to have a range of clients. Speaking of clients, actually, how did you find your first clients? Did they come to you or did you go out market quite heavily?

Lindsay Adler: 9:39

So my very first clients were other high school students parents. So my very first business was high school senior portraiture. And so you know, I had okay photos, but to be honest, we all know that a lot of clients don't know the difference between Okay, and very good. They just know when something's better than what they could do. And so of course, I was inexpensive. And I was friends or knew these students. And so I, I actually went and I printed out little promos. And I gave it to the juniors, you know, the the kids going into the summer to get their senior portraits that gave them promo cards. And then some of them called me. And then from there that I did advertising in the local newspaper. And then eventually, after college, I did have a storefront in my hometown. But before that, I was shooting out of my parents living room. And you know, when you're a kid, you don't I didn't think twice about it. Nobody seemed to complain. And it was my opportunity to build my skill set. And if it didn't bother them, it didn't bother me.

Angela Nicholson: 10:41

Great attitude, I think, and how did that progress into a fashion photography business.

Lindsay Adler: 10:46

So after college, I continued my portrait photography business, and I did a lot of high school seniors and a lot of weddings like that was, that was really where I was making my income from. And because I had found fashion photography and loved it, I knew that I wanted to move to New York, which was about a three and a half or four hour drive away from where I grew up. And so I started to save my money. And I, you know, I was like, super thrifty, like as much as possible. And I saved enough money in about two years, to feel feel like I had enough of a cushion to move to New York and be able to pay rent, even if I didn't have income. But along the way over those two years, anytime that I would see downtime on my calendar, I would take a bus, it was about $35 each way to take a bus down to New York, and I connected with people because at the time, there was Model Mayhem. And so I would connect with other creatives. And I'd do put on a test shoot. So I'd have, you know, a shoot where I did hair and makeup and wardrobe. And we would shoot in Central Park, so it wouldn't cost me any extra money. And so it would you know, shoot in the summer a lot. And so by the time I was ready to move, I already knew some hair and makeup, some model agencies that had already had connections with some of them. And, in fact, in one of these test shoots, I had pitched to somebody, Hey, you guys, if I pay for your bus ticket, would you come down to upstate New York, would you take that three and a half hour bus ride, because around me on like New York City, I have waterfalls and forests and fields. And so it was just a different environment for people to get to shoot. And so on one of these a wardrobe Silas came up to stay, to shoot for a couple of days. And she we just we really bonded. We're still friends, I actually just went to dinner with her a couple of weeks ago. And this was solidly like 16 years ago, 15 years ago, something like that. But anyway, she liked my work liked working with me, we bonded. And she is what I would say is was my secret to being able to step into the world of New York City, whether it's fashion photography or commercial work, because she had been there so long, she was able to start opening doors and making introductions to me. So she introduced me to potential clients, she was did a lot of celebrity styling, and for professional athletes. And so she'd say to them, by the way, I've met this new young photographer, you know, you can get a great portrait for her for a relatively inexpensive price. And so I would say my entire first year in New York, all of my rent was paid by people she introduced me to. And so sometimes it's just like that one magical person that opens up the doors, which is why networking is so important. It's not about just like going to a party and shaking hands. But it's about making creative connections where they become your creative family. I just did a shoot this weekend, I was doing a workshop. And I really do consider all of them family. And anytime they hear an opportunity, there's a there's a job, there's an editorial, there's a producer, there's something they instantly tell me. And so it's like I have, you know, a five people constantly doing research for opportunities for me.

Angela Nicholson: 13:52

And I think even though now we've got the benefit of social media, and you can put posts on Instagram, and you know, if you're really lucky they can be spread far and wide. Actually, it's still really, really important to make connections with people form friendships and allegiances.

Lindsay Adler: 14:08

I still think it's more important because when someone can vouch for you, and no one opportunity that is immediate. That's where that's where the doors open up. Because being on social media is still relevant. You still want to stay in top of people's mind. I think social media is important. I still regularly post regularly create content. But it's often when someone was like, Oh, I heard that this editor just moved to this magazine. Let's reach out to her. I knew her when she was at this other one like that's it's that sort of networking that creates opportunities. And I actually found just as a side note for people in the world of commercial and fashion photography, not not portraiture, per se. A lot of my commercial work has been how people have found me was because they were putting together their inspiration boards or mood boards for Were the ad agency for the commercial client. And as they build this, they found my images online, they found them on Pinterest. And so as they're building the inspiration, they go, Well, if we have a bunch of her images in the inspiration, why would we not just reach out to her and see if she can bid on the job? So I think I honestly think a majority of my jobs come from me being on their creative boards.

Angela Nicholson: 15:24

Please excuse this interruption. This podcast is supported by Canon, a leading technology company founded in Japan in 1937. Canon is dedicated to helping people reimagine and push the boundaries of what is possible through imaging. Canon believes in living and working together for the common good to develop a better society, and a more inclusive and equitable world. Let's get back to the episode. Fashion photography has a reputation for being quite cutthroat. Is that your experience? Or would you say it's not true?

Lindsay Adler: 15:57

I, I like to be positive. However, I've had some less than positive experiences with people. I think this is why I build my little families that are my little creative families like my inherent makeup wardrobe, because then you can protect each other from that cutthroat world and you have each other's back and like my team is fiercely loyal, and I am towards them as well. So, yes, people, a creatives in the world are dramatic and emotional and like to create unnecessary hassle at times. But the other thing I'll know is when I see fashion photography, it's really the world of commercial photography, a majority of what I make my money off of has nothing to do with clothing, even though I create imagery that falls into that category. For example, my biggest job this year was for an aesthetics company. And so let me let me preface by saying, so it was for breast implants, a company that does breast implants, but specifically for women that had reconstructive breast surgery after breast cancer. And so they flew me out and I did a five day shoot with real talent, women that had actually had this experience. And it has nothing to do with fashion photography, right? Like there's no fashion, it's not about the clothing. But instead it's more about a client hiring me. Because when they look at my photos, they feel a certain way, or the women that they're capturing in their photos, they want them to have an empowering look that you see in my fashion work. Or they look at my work, and they'll see my control and finesse over lighting. So it's not even though I am a fashion photographer, I hardly photograph fashion. My most of my paid work is I'm being hired for an aesthetic or my ability to produce a certain look.

Angela Nicholson: 17:50

Yes, because even fashion photography, yes, you need to see the clothing. But it's not just about the clothing. There's so much more to it isn't there? Like you say it's the aesthetic?

Lindsay Adler: 17:59

Exactly.

Angela Nicholson: 18:00

A lot of fashion photographers are men, and they've taken photographs, which are mainly consumed by women. Do you think that gives you an advantage?

Lindsay Adler: 18:08

I actually do. I really do think it's a telephone. If you use the reconstructive breast surgery, I think that they're going to hire a woman for that. And I think in the past, there were because it was so difficult for women to get established in the commercial photography world. there just weren't many for clients to choose from. They really weren't. And so they might have hired a man in the past just because there there weren't many women that were well established that they could reach out to. I know that when I moved to New York, I had learned from you know, my, my teachers at school, they'd said, you know, the one of the best ways to get into the industry is to assist for other photographers. And so I've been in New York for too long. So like 13 years, 13 or 14 years now, I guess it'd be 14. And so when I got here, I started going and trying to network with photographers and there truly were hardly any women in commercial world, which is crazy to me, because 15 years ago sounds like a long time and not long at all, for this to be an issue. But I had so many male photographers tell me to my face, that they do not hire female assistants. They would say for variety of reasons. They would say female assistants aren't strong enough to do the work which I'm weak as hell now but I used to be strong man, I'm so weak No, but I absolutely would make up for it with my hustle. So I was told they don't hire female assistants for that I was told by some that their wife doesn't let them hire female assistants which I was like, 'This sounds like an unhealthy marriage but okay'. So I had that. I also had ones that said hey, sometimes when I travel to say budget, I share a room with my assistant and I'm not going to share a room with a woman so like I just right away was hitting these roadblocks and it made me realise what you really weren't seeing any women that I could even reach out to in the commercial world, there were so few. So that's why I feel like now that there are starting to be more or now that I am established, there are certain jobs where either they want the female point of view, or the subject matter is just more appropriate to have a female photographer.

Angela Nicholson: 20:19

And, you know, if they want to share, or if they need to share a room because of budget, then it's more feasible. And, yeah, that you've mentioned a lot of barriers that I think don't automatically spring to mind, but are nevertheless very, very significant.

Lindsay Adler: 20:30

For sure. Yeah, I know that this is one of the reasons I hire all different people for internships. But I definitely make a concerted effort to have female interns, females that I mentor, because it makes it it makes a difference, like I know it does, it would have made a difference to me.

Angela Nicholson: 20:50

Yeah, yeah. Thinking of, fashion is constantly evolving from season to season, but with it also the photography has to evolve different aesthetics become popular, you know, suddenly, something that was great last year is really old hat. Now, how do you stay ahead of that game, because you're not following a trend, you're one of the people setting it.

Lindsay Adler: 21:09

Oh, I totally know what you mean. And it actually is a challenge. For example. In the past couple of years, fashion photography, and the aesthetics have fallen into two really dramatic ly different categories. One, I would say, kind of falls into the category of authenticity. So it's more real looking subjects. It's maybe shot on film, it's more natural light, it's personal expression. And then on the other side of it, the exact opposite is highly polished, really, tonnes of production, the makeup and faces that you would see perhaps on Instagram, right, like you see two very different aesthetics. And so you have to figure out how to navigate you know which audiences in which clients that you're appealing to, especially when you have a style that may be exist somewhere in between. And so what I try to do is, I'm probably a little bit, I'm definitely more on the produce side, but then I also will go out of my way to create shoots that photograph more authentic or quote, unquote, real people. So the next step, the next challenge of all of this is going to be where does AI fit into all of this? Because in Europe, for example, there are some rules against truth for truth in advertising, you know, some photos having to be you have to say if they're, they're retouched. And over here, that is not the case. And so, so many things will be able to be created with AI. And so you'll have to figure out where you exist and what your work is saying and how you incorporate what was captured in camera versus pulled out of AI. Like it's, it's, it's something that I'm currently trying to sort out myself.

Angela Nicholson: 22:51

Yeah, I don't think you'realone in that. It's one of those things, it's just suddenly come along, and we're all going, 'so it can do what?', you know, just experimenting and trying to work out what it means. At what point in your career, did you start to introduce workshops, because I know education is a really important

Lindsay Adler: 23:08

Sure. So when I was in college, I used to also thing for you. attend this large conference, which I think is actually I think it's actually either in its last year just had its last year, it was called a New England camera club conference or council and was his big conference. And it was a lot of older people, I was by far the youngest foreshore, usually by 30 years. No joke. And at the time, when I was I was in college, like digital photography had really bent like most people had digital cameras at that point. And we were just learning about Lightroom and a lot of these people were struggling with managing digital asset management, like how to keep track of your files backing them up, how do you use Lightroom bridge, whatever. And so I actually reached out to them and offered my teaching services because at the time I was using Lightroom I mean, I've even used it in beta. And so that was one of my first classes was teaching people that were just new to digital photography how to keep track and protect their files and back them up. And so I really really enjoyed that for a variety of reasons you know, what will hearken back to the beginning of the conversation of getting positive reinforcement you know, people telling me like oh, you're good at this is just so helpful, right? That was a really positive feeling. But where it is evolved for me as well is I've actually always enjoyed teaching I was one of those nerds in in high school that when they would have like be the teacher day where you could go like, you know, teach English class or teach history and you prepare a lesson like I volunteered for that that you again, like an extra credit thing that was just a you enjoy doing it. And I remember when I was applying for different scholarships and things going into college, my parents said, Well, you should maybe apply for a teaching scholarship like I, you, you may be a photography teacher, you love that as well. And so it was always something that existed. It just wasn't sure how it would come to manifest itself. And then, as I started to grow in my career, I started attending more professional conferences, like imaging USA and like, so like W ppi. And I saw that there were some things that I had to share for my perspective. And then once I became a better photographer, I could actually share something of my technique. So I was teaching before I was a good photographer, but it was teaching things that as a younger person with tech, I had something to share with people. So I now do a whole bunch of workshops, a tonne of them. And my goal, the way that I approach them is I want to help people more easily embrace their passion. So that may be that I am cutting out the junk cutting out the, you know, the overcomplicated explanations and trying to get people useful information that they can use immediately. And that could be for business that could be for lighting technique. Because when I was in college, I did take have a photography degree. And I actually got to be in my lighting class at a studio lighting class. And I got a 'B'.

Angela Nicholson: 26:24

Oh, dear.

Lindsay Adler: 26:25

And I consider myself a lighting expert. And I was a very good student. But it was because the teacher made it more complicated, I think is a gatekeeping thing want to make it seem like it was difficult, though, so that you had to work for it. But it it wasn't, it didn't it didn't have to be and if I had a teacher that could explain it in more plain terms. And with practical usage, I would have gotten a lot better, a lot faster.

Angela Nicholson: 26:49

Yeah, that's really interesting, that attitude that some people do have towards, you know, 'I'll teach you so much, but I'm not going to explain it fully because I'm the expert. And you'll never get to that stage'. And I really don't get that sense of it from you at all.

Lindsay Adler: 27:01

What so there's, there's two parts of this. Part But I love the range of workshops that you offer. And I noticed the other day that you are offering one on dressmaking number one of it is actually, very often surprisingly, in for photographers, and I thought that was absolutely brilliant, because I think you say it's not actually you know, cut out a pattern and run it all up. But we, we have a virtual coffee morning and SheClicks and we often talk about 90% of photography is faffing about, and it's you know, only 10% is the photography. And, you know, the idea that actually, you can create something that looks really stunning, and looks like a dress but actually isn't a dress, you just created something from a really fantastic piece of fabric. I think that's that's a really interesting thing. And it's really lovely to know that somebody like you does that and is going to, is prepared to teach it as well. Amazing. Obviously you know, you create all these workshops and fashion photography, even if there's wardrobe, there is a bit of what it's roughly falls into the category of draping, right, you have a subject lead that doesn't fit something, or there's a vision of how you want there to be this big, you know, keep behind the subject. And so when you work with creative, you see their brains work, and then they make it happen out of a piece of fabric. And so I'd seen this and I asked them to teach me I in no way have any sort of skill, sewing or dress making at all. But I have asked my creative friends along the way to teach me some basic techniques that I could do, all these packages that people can get involved with, but that simply and like make it beautiful. And what the people that I work with in fashion photography know is it just has takes you away from the photography. So how do you find to look good for a photo, like their brains are trained like the right balance between, you know, producing the content for that, versus like a seamstress or something like that. They know, okay, if you can't shoot it from the back, no problems like rubra YB shooting from one angle, and it just has to look great. But the other reason is, I do have people that hire me to do fashion shoots for them that are not modelled and maybe don't fit sample size couture clothing, which is like a size 02 in the US. Right and so they still deserve that that experience. And so a lot of times we are draping things and then then on top of it layering it with jewellery and it will look like a beautiful dress. So yeah, it comes a lot from the wonderful people that I'm around having these skill sets and then saying, 'Can you teach me this?' and then if we're finding it useful, and I pass it on to other people. your education side and actually doing the photography and pi tching for clients. For sure. It is definitely a difficult balance. Don't get me wrong like there are times where I'm like 'oh man, okay, I need to I need to shift', but I have found that the other reason that the main way that one of the main ways that I find people hire me is because my images made it on Pinterest and social media right and they made it onto the creative boards. But sometimes, it is also because those same people saw me on YouTube. They had another creative in the office that recommended me because they're into photography and they needed a photographer and they said,'you should check out this person because I took one of her classes, and she's really good'. And so I also consider it something that feeds into my commercial work visually, because it does, it's proven so many times that somebody saw me online. The other day, I had a model that this was like two days ago models sitting in my chair, and he's like, 'I know you from YouTube'. And I was like, 'you know, we from YouTube?'. And he's like, 'I also am a hobbyist photographer'. And so there's a lot of people that are attracted to the creative fields, even if they're not working as a photographer at that agency, the graphic designer, the art director, the art producer, the creative director, all of those people, a lot of them are still into photography, and have actually found me through what I teach. So I think it's a beautiful synergy. So smart marketing as well. Totally works. And I don't think many other people are, have the ability to do that. So that's kind of a unique one for me, I get to be the expert that they want to hire the expert.

Angela Nicholson: 31:02

Fantastic. So now we come to the section called Six when SheClicks, and I've got 10 Questions from SheClicks members. And I'm going to ask you to answer six of them. Please, if you could pick a number from one to 10.

Lindsay Adler: 31:16

Okay, seven.

Angela Nicholson: 31:18

Seven, okay. Do you work with photo editing teams? Or do you edit everything yourself? And that question is from Carmen.

Lindsay Adler: 31:26

Carmen, that is an excellent question. And it is both. When I am outsourcing images, which is a good portion of the time, I have the retouchers, doing skin cleanup, blemishes, uneven textures, but anything like contouring, or colour grading, giving the image that that mood and the way that it is toned and processed. That's me. So I treat it as both of us working towards the end goal. And as a note, I also treat my retoucher as part of my creative team, I have two retouchers that I use most often. And so it's really helpful because most of the time, they don't even need to ask what I want. They know what I want, because they have retouched hundreds and 1000s of images for me.

Angela Nicholson: 32:09

And I guess, because you're working with them, a lot of the time they see your progression as well. So they know the way that you're moving. They're kind of going with you on that.

Lindsay Adler: 32:18

Totally.

Angela Nicholson: 32:18

Okay, so could I have another number from one to 10? Please?

Lindsay Adler: 32:22

Number two.

Angela Nicholson: 32:22

Number two, right? Okay. How do you manage models who won't pose the way you ask them to any tips will be appreciated? And that question is from Mary, who I think has struggled with some, with some models not posing as she asked them to.

Lindsay Adler: 32:35

Mary, no matter how experienced you are, and how prestigious the model agency is, I regularly get models that don't know how to do their job, like I did have, it always shocks me. Because you know, the we represent it. And it's a very prestigious agency, and they're just kind of standing there. So a couple of tips that I try to coach for my subjects, is I will try to get them to actually sway and move. Because what happens is, it's when someone's kind of standing there, they get all like, rigid, and they're kind of standing at camera. So if I say'okay, like your hand, soft towards your chest, maybe on your clavicle', they'll say,'Okay', now maybe sweep your shoulders back and forth and drag your hand across your chest, across the clavicle'. And what it will do is it will give me just a little bit more authentic motions in the body, instead of them just being standing there like a statue. I think that's a good one. And then a really, this one sounds obvious, has nothing to do with posing, but I do before any shoot when the models are getting their hair and makeup done. I try to have a conversation with them to get to know them as much as possible. So I had a model on set the other day that was seemed really grumpy. Her name was Nora. I'm just I'm just telling Nora, if you're out there, it's true. You seem really grumpy. So I came over to her and I tried to ask her a little bit about herself. And then I found out that she was from Istanbul. So I picked up and I talked about my favourite things there. And I asked her for advice. And so then went on set. If she seems a little, you know, tight, I'll go oh, oh, by the way, I was just remembering this other thing to get her mind off of being uncomfortable or not wanting to be there. I tried to take her mind another direction. Okay. Okay, great. So now I'm thinking for this next pose. And it just, it allows us to flow better. And then I will also give them vibe over body position. I'll say, Okay, in this shot, we're going for strong. So what I want you to do is I want everything to be very angular in good posture, rather than just saying, Can you put your hand on your hip and stand tall? Those sorts of things?

Angela Nicholson: 34:40

Oh, yeah, I think that's that's really good advice. Because it's kind of given them more idea of what you're aiming for. Okay, so that was two and seven. Could I have your third number, please?

Lindsay Adler: 34:49

Number three.

Angela Nicholson: 34:50

Number three. Okay. Ah, so you've touched on this actually. What do you think about AI? Do you think that it poses a threat to real photographers long term And or someone also said, Is it a new revolution? So that's mainly by Bridget, that question.

Lindsay Adler: 35:07

All right, so Bridget, right now, I think the AI is inspiring and terrifying at the same levels. And I am using it in my business all the time to help me build mood boards, inspiration boards, because a lot of times, there's something that I want to show the client that I'm thinking, but I can't quite find the right image. It doesn't make me quite exists. And so AI allows me to build that. And I can show that to my client as a reference. In the example that I gave earlier, right, we're going to the reconstructive surgery. AI is not a threat to that, because the whole point is that they're showing real clients, they're showing real customers. And so they're not going to replace that because the idea is that they're showcasing real people real is the key word there. But I do think in a lot of commercial photography, it will be a threat. Because a lot of things went that way with CGI, most car ads are not real, most product ads are not real. And so I think those same things that fall into that category, certainly are at risk. So I'm currently using it for ideation and for communication. And I think anything where the point is you're photographing reality or moments a moment in a family's time, for example, a family portrait. It's the same way that someone would want a a photograph of themselves versus a painting. Some people will want the painting the creative representation. And and some people want to show that moment. So I think it is both.

Angela Nicholson: 36:39

I've not heard someone refer to that, or drawn the analogy with painting before. But actually, that's that's a really good one because painters have the opportunity to make something that isn't there there. And that's essentially what AI is doing. So I think that's that's a pretty good way of explaining it. Thank you. All right, so can I have your fourth number, please?

Lindsay Adler: 36:59

Nine.

Angela Nicholson: 37:00

Number nine. How do you spark your creativity? That question is from Emma.

Lindsay Adler: 37:05

So Emma, this answer has many sub answers to it. But I will try to be succinct. One of the things that really helps me is being around other creatives not existing on my own thinking that I have to come up with all of the ideas. So the fact that I work with hair and makeup or wardrobe, these people bring me inspiration, we're constantly sharing each other images online. Maybe we go to see a movie together, maybe we're talking about something that we saw on Netflix that was at a really beautiful frame. It's having conversations with other creatives all the time it keeps you fueled. That is an important one for me, which is why I have the benefit the good habit or bad habit of dating photographers, you can decide which one that is, it's worked out for me both ways before so no, of the next part of it was actually the hands on workshop that I did this past weekend, which was called the timeless workshop. And the idea of that workshop is how to look at pieces of art from the past, analyse it and figure out what pieces you want to take to reinterpret into your own work. I think it is very helpful when you have your own style, because you're not going to look at a piece of artwork be inspired and just rip it off. Instead, you're going to see it through the lens of how you see the world and how you represent the world in your photography. So I do look at paintings and cinema and I look at other photographers, but I tend to not look at the photographers that are super successful in the teaching world. Because all photographers are looking there and then it starts to become really derivative. So I try to look to successful photographers maybe in the 50s, 60s, 70s and pull inspiration from them.

Angela Nicholson: 38:49

Are there any particular names that you pay attention to?

Lindsay Adler: 38:52

Oh yeah, so many. So Lillian Bassman is one of my favourite photographers from like the 60s time period. She's absolutely incredible. If you see how she shot, you'll understand. Currently there's a photographer that I love. There's two of them. First one is Kristian Schuller, who is a German I believe a German fashion photographer who creates these incredible fantasies and the way he plays with light and colour is always inspiring me. Then there is a I believe she's Russian photographer. Her name is Eliveta Porodina is very intense, but she's, in the past, maybe two or three years she has exploded and she is just taking over the world with her photography. She's wonderful. And then one more that I love is a Spanish photographer, whose name is Eugenio Recuenco. And I've always loved his work I've had you know, when his first fine art book came out years ago, I bought it and he did a movie two years. Three years ago he finished a 365 project. That was not it was done over six years where everything was shot in the confines of a room, one single room 365 different ways. That sounds very intense. He is so talented.

Angela Nicholson: 40:09

I have to look into that. Okay, thank you for those names. Can I have your fifth number please?

Lindsay Adler: 40:14

Okay, let's do number five since it's five.

Angela Nicholson: 40:17

Number five. Okay, so what is the modifier that you'd like to use the most often?

Lindsay Adler: 40:21

Okay, am I allowed to cheat a little bit?

Angela Nicholson: 40:23

Why not?

Lindsay Adler: 40:24

Okay, great. So the one that I use most often will sound like a sales pitch. So that's why I have to say it, and then give you another one. The one that I use most often is the Wescott optical spot which I designed. And I don't say that because it's a sales pitch, I actually designed it because a modifier like this existed, I used it non stop, and then the company went out of business, it got discontinued. So I made my own version of this. And what it allows you to do is make little slices of light on the face or on the scene or the background. And if you look at my portfolio, if you look at my Instagram, you'll see it nonstop. But that is very specific and sound salesy. So probably the one that I use most often after that would be a beauty dish. I've used a beauty dish because I shoot a lot of beauty photography, and it gives you a lot of control with a little bit more pop, then you get a little bit more contrast and you get from a soft box.

Angela Nicholson: 41:13

I'd be disappointed if you weren't using the modifier that you designed to be honest,

Lindsay Adler: 41:17

That's good. I really do use that. I swear it wasn't meant to be. I use three at the same time yesterday.

Angela Nicholson: 41:23

Oh, wow. So you're getting three different patches of light?

Lindsay Adler: 41:27

Yeah.

Angela Nicholson: 41:27

Or stripes of light. Okay, so your last number then?

Lindsay Adler: 41:31

Okay, let's do number eight.

Angela Nicholson: 41:34

Number eight. Do you have any advice for anyone wanting to get into fashion photography,

Lindsay Adler: 41:39

I have two main categories of advice for people wanting to get into fashion photography, the first one we talked about earlier, which is finding your creative team and network. If you have beautiful images, but you don't have the connections. It does feel like screaming into the void because you're like, Isn't my work good enough. But guess what, there's so many people with good work. And so a lot of those ends have to do with the people that make those introductions. And that builds you into the web of what exists in your city or community. So that's number one. My next piece of advice is to have some sort of style to your work some unique way that you represent the world you interpret the world. And the reason that becomes important is because people see your work, they recognise it as your own. They know you're the expert in that style. And if if a fashion brand or an ad agency or company wants a certain aesthetic and your work represents that aesthetic, they hire you because you are the expert in that aesthetic. That doesn't mean you can't shoot other things you definitely can. One of my clients is Pampers. Pampers, like the baby the diapers. Like if you go and look at Pampers, the butt wipes and the packages I shot all those images but you don't see that anywhere because that's not the type of work that I'm trying to attract. Babies are fine. So you know it's that's a money job versus a joy job. And the reason your style becomes so important is it makes you memorable. So when you are sending out promos or someone's following on Instagram, they kind of registered register you in their brains. If the work is all over the place, they will associate you to Bing many different photographers and not in one unique one. So when I mentioned Lillian Bassman Elisa vet, Christian Schuler you heading over Cranko. If you look at those work, soon, as you see a photo they've taken you instantly know it's there's, there's no one else that would have taken those photos. And so that becomes indispensable. And that's one of the reasons they are so successful and why I admire them so much.

Angela Nicholson: 43:39

I'll be looking at Pampers in a very different way when I go to the supermarket.

Lindsay Adler: 43:43

Now, yes. Just a little aside, a fun note about that is I bet you guys have no idea what goes into production for Pampers because onset, there's a photographer to assistance and a digital tech. So it's somebody who's backing up and managing the files. From there. There's the creative director of the shoot. And then there's a producer who helps make the shoot happen. Then there's usually two people from client side. Then you have an onset nurse. Then you have what is called a baby Wrangler, who is their whole entire job is to get the baby to look and give the pose that they want. Because when you're shooting Pampers, based on the age, they want you to show in the poses, different body movements, okay? They can sit on their knees, they can push themselves up, they can stand because it's showing development to the baby Wrangler. Then you also have the baby stylist who is dressing them or making sure the diaper looks good. Then you have somebody who's doing the hair and makeup and you know, it's you can't really put too much makeup. It'd be like, making sure the skin has lotion on it fixing the hair in the shot. And then there's catering and then they're like, it is so much more than people would think for just a picture of a baby in a diaper.

Angela Nicholson: 44:58

Yeah, it must be a pretty big room.

Lindsay Adler: 45:00

Oh yeah, there we go. It's you rent huge rental studios. And the other reason I'll do it too is for every single baby, every single diaper sighs they have multiple babies in case one of the babies wasn't doing well, that day wasn't really going to be cooperating, but so that they're not all in the same space. If one cries and the other ones cry, you have to rent a separate studio just as a holding area so that they can nap if they need to nap that they can eat if they need to eat. It's so intense, I had no idea until I got hired for those jobs.

Angela Nicholson: 45:29

Well, I'll tell you, I love the idea of somebody having baby wrangler on their CV or their LinkedIn profile. I'm gonna see if I can find someone on LinkedIn, who's a baby Wrangler.

Lindsay Adler: 45:37

Yep, and and then get paid between $1,500 and$2,000 a day. So it's a good gig if you can get it

Angela Nicholson: 45:44

Sounds like it. Yeah. Wow. Well, thank you so much for answering those questions. But there's one more that I need to ask you, which is do you have any plans to come to the UK to run any workshops over here?

Lindsay Adler: 45:54

The answer is yes.

Angela Nicholson: 45:55

Yes!

Lindsay Adler: 45:56

Someday, I think next year, next year. I am attending a conference in June, but I'm waiting to make sure that they've announced everything. Okay, so I'll be over and presenting in June. And then I hope to do some kind of big fashion workshop things someday, add a castle of some sorts. You guys seem to collect those. So why not take advantage of it?

Angela Nicholson: 46:21

We have a few.

Lindsay Adler: 46:22

Yeah, we have none.

Angela Nicholson: 46:24

Oh, that'd be fantastic. Right, well, I'll keep my eye open for dates. Okay, great. Lindsey. It's been absolutely wonderful to hear from you. Thank you so much for spending so much time with us today. Thank you.

Lindsay Adler: 46:34

All right, I will see you on your side of the ocean.

Angela Nicholson: 46:37

I look forward to that. Bye bye.

Lindsay Adler: 46:38

Bye.

Angela Nicholson: 46:40

Thanks for listening to this episode of The SheClicks Women in Photography Podcast. I hope you enjoyed it. You'll find links to Lindsay's website and social media channels in the shownotes. I'll be back with another episode soon. So please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. You'll also find SheClicks on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube if you search for SheClicks net. So until next time, enjoy your photography.