Cristina Mittermeier: Being a Girl is a Superpower

Cristina Mittermeier  
A lot of women often think that being a girl is weakness. I think it's a superpower. Because when you lean into the more feminine attributes of just the way that we see the world, you can come back with something that is so much more poetic and so much more evocative and beautiful and truly feminine. And we shouldn't shy away from that.

Angela Nicholson  
Welcome to the SheClicks women in photography podcast, I'm Angela Nicholson, and I'm the founder of SheClicks, which is a community for female photographers. In these podcasts I talk with women in the photographic industry to hear about their experiences, what drives them, and how they got to where they are now.

In this first episode, I'm speaking with Cristina Mittermeier, a world-renowned marine biologist, conservationist photographer and filmmaker. She's dedicated her life to protecting the world's oceans and inspired millions of people to do the same. She's also a Sony imaging ambassador and the first recipient of the SheClicks Lifetime Achievement Award.

Angela Nicholson  
Hello, Christina, thank you so much for joining me on this the first SheClicks podcast. 

Cristina Mittermeier  
It is such a pleasure to be here, Angela. Thank you so much for having me as your inaugural speaker. I love it. 

Angela Nicholson  
Well, thank you. It really is an honour so I know how busy you are. I followed your work for a long time, but we actually got to meet at the photography show last year in Birmingham in the UK. And you were speaking there. And we were also I was gearing up to present the SheClicks awards. And you had won the very first SheClicks Lifetime Achievement Award. So I was absolutely delighted to be able to present it to you there. It was. 

Cristina Mittermeier    
It was so surprising Angela because I was there like you said for different reasons somebody had asked me to speak but I was wandering the hallways of the of the event when I saw this amazing wall for beautiful photography. And as I started looking at the names, it dawned on me that they were all women photographers. And so one of those ladies dragged me and said, You have to come and meet Angela. I was just so totally light. It's such a visionary thing when you've done so it was thrilled, thrilled to meet you very honoured by the award and what can I say? We need more people like you. 

Angela Nicholson  
Oh, thank you so much. Yes, that was that was Kiran and yeah, she was I saw her beaming at me and then I saw you and I was like I was so surprised. And the thing is, I knew you'd won the award. And I was thinking do you know, do you know not because obviously I had to seek permission to go on stage at the end of your talk. And either you are a very good actor, or you didn't know. 

Cristina Mittermeier    
I had no idea. I was completely surprised in the most pleasant of ways and I thought that you were kind of like making it up at the moment.

Like, oh, there she is, let's give her an award. But I was very, very delighted to hear that there had been so much thought and so much participation behind the scenes. So thank you. 

Angela Nicholson  
Oh, you're very welcome. You're very welcome. Now since that time, you've not let the grass grow under your feet. You've done some fantastic expeditions, lots of the work, but you've also been very busy and setting up 100 For the Ocean. It's such an amazing initiative. 

Cristina Mittermeier    
You know, one of the things that attracted me most to you Angela was your selflessness in lifting other people around you and creating a community so that we all can speak with a louder voice. And so when I created the International League of Conservation photographers, I was using that same mindset. And when we created the legacy the same and 100 for the ocean, an idea that Paul and I had, I don't know last October and we thought you know why don't we just invite some of our best friends to participate. And we'll do this every year. And we will donate all the money to conservation. And it's been so well received, I think because people love the philanthropic nature of it. 

Angela Nicholson  
Yeah, well, thank you for your kind words, but the pictures are there are absolutely amazing. I mean, I've I've had several in my my cart for quite some time and I've got to make the final clicks because the the ability to buy them ends on the 31st of May, doesn't it but it's such a fantastic opportunity because like you say, there's 100 amazing photographers involved and you can buy an image for $100 or print $100.

Cristina Mittermeier    
Yeah. And you know, we my partner Paul and I we get asked a lot by many many nonprofits around the world to donate prints because they have these beautiful let end of the year you know, events gala as they need to give gifts to their donors. It's always difficult when one of your fine art prints is worth $5,000 But when when they can buy something for 100 that's just as beautiful. I think it's good and so many people love having these little prints you know, it's been so well received and I have to say I'm so grateful to the photographer's for their generosity, and just for being willing to play some of these photographers are not even ocean photographers. We have people like Pete Souza, who was President Obama's personal photographer, and even if they don't know how to swim, they want to contribute to protecting the ocean. So next year, we will make sure that we have some sheet clippers in the mix. 

Angela Nicholson  
Oh, fantastic. Well, that was going to be my next question. Will you be doing it again? And it sounds like it's a yes. 

Cristina Mittermeier
Now we only have one week left and we are not going to be reaching our goal of $1 million. I think there's so much noise on the internet. It's been hard to reach audiences. But if we are able to at least cover the heart cost and donate some of the money you know, we will definitely do it again next year because I think it's a good thing. I think the world needs more of this and as photographers, the only thing we can contribute is our art and our influence and our voices. And so I hope that we get to do it again. 

Angela Nicholson  
I hope so too. And I look forward to seeing it. I mean I say I've got quite a few images in my cart already. And I'm sure a lot of people are struggling like me to make that selection because there are so many great images. And I've been going through and following all the female photographers with the she clicks Instagram account as well because I think it's really nice to see all these people and discover their photography. 

Cristina Mittermeier
Absolutely. And we have some extraordinary female photographers in the mix and some that were new to me people that I am only meeting because photographers were just you know, we didn't have a proper nominating process. The time was so short that Paul and I literally just started writing emails to our friends. And people were saying, how about this? How about that, you know, there's so many good photographers out there now. So it's been a process of discovery and delight really so good. 

Angela Nicholson 
Oh, that's really nice. But your initial calling wasn't actually photography. Was it you were training to be a biochemical engineer in ocean sciences or marine sciences weren't you?

Cristina Mittermeier
You know, I did a lot of reading when I was a young person. I think I've always been very aware of the fact that our planet is in dire and serious urgent, desperate need of protection. So for me, it's always been a no-brainer that we have to create more protection, but it's been a tough thing to convince people around me and even today, you know, there was a report that came out that says that by 2027. We will be reaching that dreaded one-and-a-half-degree increase in temperature. Some people think, Oh, it's just one and a half degrees, but it's very serious, especially for animals in the ocean. So I kind of know that science is not it's not the right tool to engage very large audiences because people don't want to be thinking about numbers and percentages. But photographs, you know, you can invite people into the conversation if you can get them to stop scrolling, because they are in awe of what you have presented. And then if you can get them to read your caption, maybe they will click on a link and they will be willing to learn a little more or take an action. So I think that's a gift that as photographers we have and we should be using it to engage audiences in all aspects of good for society. 

Angela Nicholson 
So how did you manage that transition from being a scientists to being a photography one day, thank you. Well, I'm not reaching my audience. So I'm going to buy a camera and I'm gonna start doing you know, taking these great photos. What was your process here? 

Cristina Mittermeier
I think all of our lives, leaders in these zigzagging journeys right so for me, as a scientist, I was invited to help write and translate and caption a photography book that had to do with conservation. So I did and when the book was finally presented to public, as beautiful, you know, photographers had these double page spreads. And I noticed you know, in the opening we had a big launch and event you know, everybody's wearing their gala clothing people were browsing through this book, and they were not reading my text, but they were looking at the pictures. And whenever people were, you know, wondering about an image they were asking questions, and they thought, wow, if you can get somebody to ask you a question. You have opened the door for a dialogue. Because otherwise, you know, I think what it is, is, even today when I read a scientific paper, sometimes it's so complex that I feel stupid, you know, I feel like I don't have enough information. I don't know enough to really engage with this content. So I rather not but a photograph you know, it's a universal language. We all speak for them. If we say so. I think we feel comfortable entering the dialogue through photography. 

Angela Nicholson  
Yes, you can have a gut reaction

Cristina Mittermeier
For sure.

Angela Nicholson  
And when you were learning about photography, did you have any female role models?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Oh my god, Angela, me. We're talking about the 1990s early 1990s. This was a profession at least in the United States that was almost 100% male-dominated and I'm gonna say white male, so middle class, retired doctors and lawyers. They were the ones that held the keys to the castle. And they used to have these conferences. That were the one that I used to attend was in North America Nature Photographers Association. And you would look around the room and he was all man. You know, what, what was I doing there? I had a portfolio mostly of indigenous portraits. Nobody wanted to look at my work. And all they were talking about was you know, the macho aspects of photography. And were only interested in the filters and the lenses and they didn't want to talk about the purpose behind the work. They didn't want to be bothered with environmental issues. And so I just decided to do my own thing, you know, and I started the International League of Conservation Photographers and probably as you know, by now, starting a community is always very difficult, especially photographers, we are lone warriors. You know, we'd like to be out there alone with our cameras and so getting photographers to coordinate their thoughts and their actions behind the single purpose. is very difficult, but I persevere

Angela Nicholson  
Increasingly, I'm finding pleasure in sharing photography, actually, in the shooting experience with with people when we go out on a SheClicks meetup. Actually, there's real pleasure in seeing someone else capture a picture that they've been trying to get for ages and they just get that shot. That sort of really pleasurable experience. I know you do a lot of shooting with your partner, don't you? Do you enjoy that sharing aspect as well?

Cristina Mittermeier  
You know, in the beginning, it was really difficult because my partner is one of the most iconic National Geographic photographers and he there are people that have an innate talent for photography, and Paul is one of those people. He is able to come back with incredible shots that are always intimate and are always so crisp and so vibrant. So in the beginning, I was very intimidated by you know, standing on his shadow on the shadow of his tripod trying to shoot over his shoulder I decided to find my own my own style, you know, and a lot of women often think that Dean or girl is a weakness, I think it's a superpower. Because when you lean into the more feminine attributes of just the way that we see the world you can come back with something that is so much more poetic and so much more evocative and beautiful and truly feminine. And we shouldn't shy away from that. So I stopped competing with Paul and I just started you know, doing my own thing, which is complimentary, and I think it's uniquely mine. Yeah.

Angela Nicholson  
It can be quite hard to develop your own your own style. How did you develop that?

Cristina Mittermeier  
You know, I think it's so important to study the work of other photographers and to your earlier point of taking such delight in watching others achieve their vision is just as important to have your own vision. I like to imagine the photograph before I'm going to take it. If I say to you know, we're going to be photographing hammerhead sharks. I am asking myself, you know, this has been photographed a million times. How can I do it in a way that's uniquely mine? For me relationships are really important, the relationship between an animal and the space around it or to animals or an animal and a person. So I lean a lot on to that. And for other photographers is different, right? But there is a tremendous joy when that image that you've had in your mind actually materialises in front of you and because you've already thought about it, you're ready to click it. And there it is. And if you've been a good girl and you've studied all your technical aspects, you know, you should be able to just execute on the vision that you already had in your mind.

Angela Nicholson  
But I think that that forming a connection whether it's with a person a human or an animal, or a community, that's quite a female trait, isn't it that what will or wish to do that?

Cristina Mittermeier  
And it's not only a trade it really is a superpower because being a woman, you will inevitably be underestimated you will inevitably be invisible and these are superpowers when it comes to being a photographer, you know, you get to be a fly on the wall and everybody is busy, you know, with their cameras or their big egos over there. And in the meantime, you are executing on your vision in a quiet, feminine way.

Angela Nicholson  
Yeah. Because sometimes those big heavy lenses are very unrealistic. You know, not everybody can carry them everywhere. So suddenly you have to do something different. Maybe you're using a little tiny lens and getting really close. So getting the wider picture, but there's room for everything.

Cristina Mittermeier  
Absolutely. Room for everything and you should not shy away from owning a big lens and using it when it's necessary. And knowing how to use the big lens is very important. But for me oftentimes you know I really like the smaller lenses that are wider angle. And if the if I'm not able to get close enough, then photograph was not meant for me to have and I'm happy with that when I learned the art of letting photographs go just because you don't have the right equipment. You're not in the right place. The right is not right, you know, just put your camera down and look at the thing. And you know, internalise it and don't forget it because all those moments are so special and we get to be out there in nature. So a moment to just enjoy it. 

Angela Nicholson  
One of the key features of nature photographers is that they understand their subjects. How do you balance the need to sort of know whose subjects you're talking Are you going to be photographing, with actually photographing them because you could spend hours and hours and hours studying animals without actually going out and seeing them or photographing them and how do you find the balance? 

Cristina Mittermeier  
You know, that's a really interesting question because I started my career as a photographer doing portraiture, just trying to make a living with my camera. So I was photographing, you know, proms and weddings and that kind of thing. I think at the core of my style is I'm a portrait photographer. So when I'm out there with animals, I'm thinking about making portraits of these creatures and I'm waiting for animals to come close to me so that I can capture that moment when they're when there's a good portrait he but you know, I do these dual thing that in his post, the difficult one is the underwater photography, which I really enjoy and it's a very challenging, there's so many odds stacked against you in underwater photography. But then the other thing that I continue to do is the photography of indigenous people. And I like because you are able to create real human connections to find commonality, laughter, joy, to get to know the names of people to learn a little bit about the struggles and the joys of people that you just met. And for me, that's a real gift. So I just came back from the Omo Valley in Ethiopia, and I learned so much and my heart was broken many times just watching human suffering, but it was also uplifted by the beauty of the tribes of the Omo Valley i So highly recommend for photographers to visit displays because it's become one of the only sources of income for these communities. So when photographers visit and we pay to visit the villages and take photographs, you know, we are supporting people maintaining their traditions, and I know a lot of photographers struggle with this concept. But I've kind of made peace with it by now. Because watching, especially women suffering because they have no way of making money is heartbreaking. Yeah. Then the other thing I do is the underwater photography, which is also very difficult but you know, I think I think, your question is making me think that it is the same set of skills and it is the same mindset of learning about your subject of doing your research before you go of surrounding yourself with experts of studying the work of other photographers of being a student of art. I mean, all of these things play into how your photographs will look up to look like

Angela Nicholson  
And sticking with the theme of balance. You're obviously very passionate about conservation. But does the responsibility of your work ever weigh really heavily upon you?

Cristina Mittermeier   
Yes. It does. And if my work didn't have purpose and usefulness to further the cause of conservation, I don't think I would be a photographer. You know, I think I'd be happy to put my camera down. So I know for a fact that a lot of photographers is just the joy of photographing that drives the the art for me really is the purpose. And I'm just happy that I know how to do it and that I I like doing it but I'd be so happy to put the camera down and do something else. Yeah. And, and having that freedom makes it great. You know, like I don't Yeah, I don't I don't feel like I have to be a photographer or die.

Angela Nicholson  
But it's about the conservation is the important thing for you?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Yeah, you know, I, I learned this concept of IKI guy when I was a young person, the purpose of your life and so it's the confluence of what you love, which is also what you're good at, which is also what gets you paid and it's what the world needs. And for me this intersection of photography and conservation is my key guy. So I I do it I do it with joy, but I don't do it for the sake of doing it.

Angela Nicholson  
And with all that in mind, how do you actually choose the projects that you are going to work on?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Well, there's two parts to that answer. The work that I do for conservation, which is mostly to see legacy is guided by the need. There's so many organisations and projects out there that you know would benefit from having a photographer come and tell their story, or document whatever it is that they're achieving, or the issues they're struggling with struggling with. So that's the see legacy part of it. And when I'm in the water, I'm always thinking about you know, how can I make something really artistic that has a long life, either on a wall or on pages of a book, and not just on Instagram? The other side of my work is this whole portraiture of indigenous people that is less directly attached to see legacy but it's just the thing that I love. And so I have to find time to do both. And I have to use two different compartments of you know, reality and understanding and funding to do both. Yeah. Then you have to spend the money to get there.

Angela Nicholson  
I love the interaction that you get when you're photographing indigenous people. If you're not you never photograph people with a long lens standing on the other side of the forest or something, you know, you're in there. You've obviously had a chat with them. You know, I think that the bubble gum picture is a classic, because they were trying to surprise you by doing that by blowing a bubble.

Cristina Mittermeier  
 Yeah, yeah, indigenous people and long lenses don't mix. No, you need intimate access to people's lives and you need to risk respectfully Questing in order to be part of somebody's day. So no, ambushing people with a long lenses that never yields satisfying results. As for the bubble gum photograph, you know people always ask me if I gave those children that bubble gum, but as a mother, I can tell you of course I didn't. They already had it. And I would have taken it out of their mouths because back who breaks your heart when you see the terrible state of people's teeth in places where there's no dental care, but yeah.

Angela Nicholson  
It's true. Yes. Again, sort of going back to this balance thing. You know, you're very kindly on this podcast, I know you get invited to all sorts of things. And it must be a difficult thing to sort of get the right balance because obviously there's no point you going taking all these photographs if you don't talk about them and get them soon, but equally, you've got to take them as well. So how do you sort of divide your time up?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Oh, my gosh, all day. Sorry. I feel like I'm a zoombie because I'm on zoom mode. I'm starting to learn how to say no. So I used to, I really want to elevate the art of photography and I really want to be a role model for other women to pursue this professionally. And so I used to judge all sorts of photography competitions. And just last week, I had agreed to do one in Spain and when they send me the submissions, like oh my god on how many photographs are there, they sent me 15,000 And I had to write back to say, Listen, guys, I just I don't have time for 15,000 You guys are gonna have to do a pre GA and send me the finalist or something like somebody with more time right and can do this. I'm starting to say no to things like that, but but I have to find a balance between speaking about photography just for the art and love of the craft and speaking about conservation. I have to do both. What I say to my staff at sea legacy is that see legacy only works if I remain a relevant photographer. That means continue shooting continue participating in the community, finding ways to give back to participate in the innovations in our in our profession, you know, which are always so many new cameras, new now now we have to contend with AI and the the fees and all that stuff and you have to be part of it all so you cannot just become irrelevant. 

Angela Nicholson  
OK. I wanted to ask you about something you you touched on it at the photography show and you've touched on it again tonight. So at the photography show, you know you were talking about your images talking about your work. Everybody in the room, you're on a big stage, everyone in the room was on the edge of their seats, you know, really absorb what you're saying. But you mentioned in passing a little bit of experiencing impostor syndrome, and you've kind of touched on it you're saying about being an impulse shadow at one point. Is that something you still experience?

Cristina Mittermeier  
You know, I think most photographers will always have impostor syndrome and if you don't shame on you, we we are our success is only as good as our next photograph. And you will always be judged for you worse work. So never put it out there. Edit your work carefully. But it's such a weird thing, Angela, when you finally are put up on a stage and people give you all these accolades and you start getting these awards. And you know in your heart of hearts, that there's so many other photographers that are more capable, more technically accurate, more proficient, and why me? You know what, I think a huge part of my success as a photographer is this infusion of purpose behind the work that I do. If it was just photography, maybe I would be, you know, a little more than mediocre. But so yeah, I'd have huge impostor syndrome and I think most people do. 

Angela Nicholson  
I think you're quite a lot more than mediocre. Thank you, you know, you never know if your next shoot is going to be a total catastrophe and death. You know, going to the Omo Valley I went with a group of amateur photographers, all of them amateur, and we're shooting such good stuff. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm Maya hotkey This is that they're getting this beautiful stuff that maybe I'm not. So it wasn't it wasn't education to go back and to your earlier point. That there's such value in shooting with other people because you never stop learning. Yes. And just watching somebody else work and visualise and execute is like going to university. So keep doing it.

But one of the fun things about shooting with your clickers is everybody's always pointed. We've got a great photo. Well, I think it's about five of us. And everyone's cameras pointing in a different direction because we've all seen something else at the same spot. But there's always somebody who's moving their camera around because they're doing intentional camera movement. There's someone who's just photographing something because they want a texture. And you know, that's a freedom that you get through being an enthusiast photography. You don't necessarily get that maybe as a fine art professional photographer, you might have that freedom but I think it's quite a special thing. But do you is photography, your hobby as well as part of your career?

Cristina Mittermeier  
No, it isn't. See that's the thing I if I have a choice to not bring a camera I rather no bring it and I feel getting older now Angela and I really feel the strong need of being present. Right. And hiding behind the camera has been a great tool throughout my life to shelter myself from things that are uncomfortable or you know, things that I don't want to deal with you hide behind the camera and you can stay there. But these days, I really didn't bring the camera I used to be the event photographer for everything, you know, everywhere I went out took a camera. And now I go back to my hard drives, you know 90 terabytes of photographs and I'm like, What am I gonna do with all these? So no, I don't I don't fit under this for.

Angela Nicholson  
Okay, fair enough. So we've come to the section that I'm calling six from SheClicks and I've collated some amazing questions from lots of SheClickers and I've selected my 10 favourite and I would like you please to answer six. So if you'd like to give me a number from one to 10 I'll let you know what the question is. 

Cristina Mittermeier  
Well, let's go with five number five. 

Angela Nicholson  
Okay. Your photography is not just a journalistic approach that shows a certain situation, but it's aimed to evoke action, and it's driving changes. How do you approach the subject to achieve that? What strategies do you adopt? And that's by Carmen that question?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Thank you, Carmen for the question. I spend a lot of time because I've worked through partnerships for these organisations that have called me in or cold sea legacy and to help so I spend a lot of time just talking to people about what is it that's important for them in the narrative? And once you have I mean, and I think the National Geographic assignment here is really help him in formulating the storyboard of images that are necessary to tell the story. So I often use this exercise if you only have 12 pictures to tell a story. What are those two pictures going to be? Because each and every one of them needs to do the heavy lifting to you know, create a narrative. And there has to be a common thread throughout them, right. But every one of those photographs has to be able to stand alone as well and to be beautiful and artistic in its own right. So it's a big challenge. And so it's not just you know, showing up somewhere and start clicking. You know, there's a lot of thinking that goes behind reassignment, especially when you're shooting without people's money. You have a huge responsibility to use every minute of the day very wisely. So you better have an idea of what is it that you're trying to say before you start photograph Okay,

Angela Nicholson  
Now that answer sounds like a photographer who started shooting with film

Cristina Mittermeier  
I did you know I'm old enough that I started my career with a you know, Rollieflex and all the medium medium format cameras and an old Nikon FM2 I mean, just so old technology, right, but you were constricted to 36 frames and you didn't know if you had the photograph or not. So you better be damn good at your technical stuff. And more than once I came back and everything was overexposed, because I didn't realise that you know, there was a setting mic, plus two exposure rocker you learn by making mistakes and I think there's a huge discipline in not only in shooting with film, but also in developing film in the light in the in the dark room. As you understand how shadows and light work so much better to have you have a chance to delve into the wet darkroom and into shoot with all cameras try as far

Rollieflex
Can we have another number, please from one to 10. Well, yeah, I

Cristina Mittermeier  
I always like number one.

Angela Nicholson  
That's a good one to ask actually, because this is a question that quite a few people asked or were sort of somewhere around it. So I've kind of collated a few questions. So what is the most breathtaking moment you've witnessed while shooting at sea? And do you ever put down your camera just to watch because something is so spectacular?

Cristina Mittermeier  
I've had my share of incredible moments from the most amazing sunsets to storms. I hold a special place in my mind for the moments when an animal has chosen to approach me and I was in the water and out of the blue comes you know six female sperm whales all enormous and they're all fearlessly were that I'm there because I can feel them clicking me. Is it coming right through me? And they put me right in between them, you know, so gentle not to touch me like, how do you recover from that? It's, it was an amazing afternoon with a series of encounters with his female sperm whales. And yeah, oftentimes I put my camera down a lot of the times I put my camera down, yeah, especially underwater. looking through the viewfinder, you have such narrow perception of what you're looking at that unless you occasionally put the camera down, you just miss the whole beauty of the thing you photograph to do it with the camera down.

Angela Nicholson  
Did you feel completely safe when those sperm whales were there?

Cristina Mittermeier  
No, not entirely.
Not entirely. I you know, they they're wild animals. You can romanticise them as much as you want but they are the largest carnivore on the planet. They do feed on you know squid that are larger than me Oh, so I didn't think they were going to bite me. I thought they could just you know, by accident squish me in between them. Yeah, I could get a tail or a fluke that could kill you. Even if they're being playful. They're enormous.

You're like holy cow, holy cow.

And then I sing through my snorkel so that they know that I'm there.

Angela Nicholson  
Oh, fantastic. 

Cristina Mittermeier  
Yeah, it's funny, in times of panic. New York, New York is oftentimes the song that comes to my to my head to start singing let animals to know that I'm there.

Angela Nicholson  
So I'll bear that in mind. Next time at Bushy Park, with SheClicks as a stag getting close, we'll start singing New York, New York.
I think that'll become our theme tune. 

Cristina Mittermeier  
There you go. Oh, that's fantastic. 

Angela Nicholson  
Okay, so you've had one and five. So another number, please?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Well, let's do let's do three. Let's say let's keep it exciting on the odd numbers. 

Angela Nicholson  
Okay. Number three. Are you worried about the demands of ecotourism and wildlife photography holidays, is now potentially harming fragile ecosystems like the Galapagos Islands. And would you encourage people to focus on wildlife nature and conservation in their local areas? That was asked by Sarah.

Cristina Mittermeier  
Oh my god. Sarah, what a good question. I think in my lifetime, I have seen the degradation of areas that were bountiful and beautiful and a lot of it has been because of tourism and some of it because of photography, tourism. But absolutely, you know, with the advent of digital cameras, we're all now photographers and we are all going to the places where we can capture the most amazing scenes. I just finished watching a documentary called The Last tourist and it really opened my eyes on you know, on the threats of tourism, which of course are also part of the solution. Because if you think about money-generating income, either from deforestation or from tourism Of course, tourism seems like a lesser evil, but it can be incredibly destructive. I think it's incumbent upon us as tourists and you know, users of the resource to be mindful and to be educated and to understand what is it that we are promoting, when we when we go to these places and not just the abuse and exploitation of wildlife? You know, I've always been a very outspoken opponent of game farms where you can rent a wolf or a bear that otherwise lives in a cage. It's up to you as a photographer to be aware and to have a you know, moral compass and an ethical guideline of your personal values. It says this is not okay. In I cannot photograph an elephant that is shackled to a tree. And I'm not going to pay somebody to continue inserting that abuse. The same is goes for communities, right? I'm going for this trip on the Omo Valley I chose a provider a guide a woman that's been there many, many times somebody who finds a way for the photography to give back to the communities. We didn't show up just you know with our cameras and money we showed up with food and with soap and with things for the community. Benefit from us being there and then just want to be respectful. Right? I'm always shocked when I see photographers meandering into people's homes, stood like how would you like it if somebody came with a camera and just help themselves to your living? Wow. So I think just being respectful is so important. But yeah, we're destroying our planet, not just with the carbon that it requires for us to travel. But also, you know, just shattering these places to pieces because there's so many of us, so choose wisely. 

Angela Nicholson  
Okay, so would you like the next odd number?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Well, yeah, sure. Let's go with seven or should we give a chance to two even numbers?
Maybe let's go six.

Angela Nicholson  
Okay, well, there was six. Okay, so what is the simplest step that a person can take to protect the oceans? That question is from Liz.

Cristina Mittermeier  
There's so many right and the two biggest issues affecting the ocean today. Are that we have extracted much fish through industrial fishing, and we have dumped too much stuff in the ocean because of plastic pollution and other pollutants. So the simplest thing you can do is to learn about the right kind of fish, you know, do a little bit of research and figure out which kind of fish that because we all need to eat a little fish. It's good for our omega says, you know, support to local fisheries and local communities but which one is it? So do a little bit of research and, uh, you know, I don't support any industrial cod fish. So if a fish was not caught with a line, or it was it didn't come from a local community that I know if it's not a carnivore, like tuna or salmon is better not to eat it. Think about it, you know, we don't eat tigers and lions because they're carnivores. You know, it takes too much energy to grow and so why do we feel so comfortable? eating tuna and salmon? So yeah, go for the herbivores eat low on the food chain and in the food they end trophic food chain, more veggies, less fish, less meat. Find ways to reduce your carbon footprint because carbon is the biggest pollutant to the ocean and it is literally killing the plankton that produces the oxygen we breathe. So yeah, we need to do more to speak up for everybody to reduce their carbon footprint. And then finally that the single use plastic problem is still so huge. And you know, this morning, I had to go get a blood sample and you know when I was a little girl I used to get a lollipop the stomach decided to treat myself to a Starbucks coffee. You cannot refuse the lid you know, I didn't want the plastic lid and they won't give you a cup of coffee without it. So now I know I'm not going back though. 

Angela Nicholson
Very strange.

Cristina Mittermeier  
Like I don't want to I don't want to be I don't want to be part of that. You know, it's very strange. But I do think that having the courage to speak up and I did say to the girl they said Well that'll be the last time I come because I don't want your plastic. So to speak up is tell people that the things that that upset you, you know all the straws in our drinks holder. The plastic wrappers is just insane. Whatever it ends up in the ocean, so yeah.

Angela Nicholson  
So there's an interesting story on the BBC News just recently that somebody was on a Norfolk Beach is walking along and he saw some crisp packets and he looked at them and he realised they were from the 1980s and they actually look pristine and read all the wording on them. And some things happen with the tides and it's just churned them up. They've been somewhere and it's astonishing.

Cristina Mittermeier  
Goodness, astonishing. Well, plastic will remain there for a long time and whales are eating it. Animals that filter feed like whale sharks are eating it. Sea turtles are entangled. I mean, it's just horrific. But the last thing that we can do, and as women we have a lot of choice here. Just have a climate change mindset as we plan our families and I see a lot of families that want to have children because they're a cute accessory that you can dress and buy strollers for but every single person that we add to this planet is a huge carbon footprint and a huge mega consumer. So I'm not saying don't have children. I'm just saying you know think carefully about those decisions because and pass things on. Yeah, it's also very difficult place to bring children to the world right now. So pass things on and then raise quality individuals, you know, raise two children to really care and believe in health of our planet. 

Angela Nicholson
Okay, so the fifth question what number would you like?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Oh you pick.  Oh 10

Angela Nicholson  
10 OK. What one piece of advice would you give to someone starting out in underwater photography?

Cristina Mittermeier  
GM, a very good underwater person or water woman before you attempt to take pictures. You need to be a very proficient one person whether you are on snorkel or on scuba, because the ocean is a brutal master and it will teach you life. Find lessons very quickly. So understand currents understand. You know, whether in general and do not surrender your well being to the judgement of others. When people get lost at sea it's usually because they trusted that the operator of the boat is going to remember to pick them up. You take your own safety in your own hands, you made sure that your tank is full. You make sure that your operational the equipment is operational. Yeah, and don't do anything stupid.

I mean, the most important thing I can say is that underwater photography is one of the most difficult disciplines in photography. So just be ready for a long journey of trial and error and failure. But once you learn it, it will be very satisfying. So be patient.

Angela Nicholson  
Be patient, that's the main one. So which would you like is your last question.

Cristina Mittermeier  
Let me think ,we haven't done four

Angela Nicholson  
We haven't.
Okay. Which conservation projects in our seas give you the most hope? And would you consider doing photographic projects around them to show society that we can affect positive change?

Cristina Mittermeier  
Yes, that's a beautiful question. So I am a very positive individual and I really subscribe to Martin Martin Luther King's speech. If I have a dream. He didn't tell us he had a nightmare. So portraying the beautiful future that we want to inhabit, I think is a huge part of the job. And when it comes to ocean conservation, we actually have a recipe that the scientific community has given us. The scientists have told us that there are six recovery wedges that we need to attend to if we want to restore health and abundance to the ocean by 2050. Those wedges are we need to create more marine protected areas we need to protect more species like sharks and whales. We need to stop the flow of pollution into the ocean. We need to rethink how we extract the protein from the ocean. We need to restore the habitats that we have degraded like coral reefs and mangroves. The most important one is we have to think about the ocean as a solution to climate change not just as a victim, ocean is absorbing 90% of the excess heat 25% of all carbon emissions at the same time, it is exhaling 50% of the oxygen we breathe. So when I think about organisations that I want to support with my work, I am always thinking about those six wedges and I'm always thinking about him having an impact in all six because the one thing that scientists are telling us is that we don't get to pick and choose we have to do them all. So that's that's how I think about see legacy as a support system Communications and Marketing for all the organisations that are out there working on those six wedges. So I hope that's helpful.

Angela Nicholson  
Well, thank you so much for answering those questions and thank you for your time. You've been very generous by coming on our podcast.

Cristina Mittermeier  
You are very generous Angela and I love the group of women that you have gathered around you and around all of us to uplift us to support us to be role models to each other. So thank you very much for doing that. And I am here if you need help with anything at all. 

Angela Nicholson  
Oh, thank you so much.

Cristina Mittermeier  
It's been an honour. Thank you. Bye, bye.

Angela Nicholson  
Well, we've come to the end of the first SheClicks, Women in Photography podcast. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed hearing from Christina as much as I did, and I'll put links to her social media channels and website in the show notes so you can keep up to date with what she's up to. 

We'll be back with another episode soon so please subscribe to the show on your favourite podcast platform and tell all your friends and followers about it. 

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So until next time, enjoy your photography.